Has anyone here lost hope?
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BirdMagicLegend
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:27 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Please get it right. Brad Stevens became an executive this season but the team was mostly built by Danny Ainge. Stevens only put the finishing touches on this Celtics team.

Ainge drafted Tatum, Brown, Timelord, Pritchard, Grant Williams, Marcus Smart. Stevens got Derek White and Horford back while getting rid of Kemba Walker and he picked Ime Udoka as his successor.


This is true, though the finishing touches matter. I don't like Ainge very much, but I'll give him credit for a successful run in charge of the Celtics. Before Ainge took charge, the Celtics had been largely irrelevant for 20 years. The highlight of those 20 years may have been the Rick Pitino rant. Ainge got them a title and another trip to the Finals, then rebuilt them into a consistent playoff team for a decade. It's not like everything he touched turn to gold (Gordon Hayward jumps to mind), but he did pretty well with a team that is middle of the pack in revenue.


First of all, Danny Ainge is with Utah now. You don't have to give him any credit. Boston was terrible with him at the helm.

Second of all, if LAL had Boston's picks, they'd have a decade long dynasty instead of a potential one-hit wonder.


That doesn't make any sense at all. Ainge is with Utah now but he is directly responsible for drafting several of these homegrown players on the Celtics team right now including Tatum, Brown, Smart, Pritchard, Grant Williams and Timelord. Of course Celtics fans are going to give him credit and he deserves it. Hayward was just in a freak accident that no one could predict and the Kyrie trade was great too because we got a superstar but he mentally checked out in the series vs the Bucks and joined KD in Brooklyn right after. You can't do anything about that either.

If LA had those picks? They would have had to pull off a heist which Ainge did to Billy King to trade an aging Pierce, KG and Jason Terry for several first round picks which turned into Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum who are now the stars of this Celtics team.

No I don't feel they were terrible. They made it to the Eastern Conference finals a few times under Ainge's leadership and if Hayward doesn't have that freak accident, they potentially win a championship that year. Terrible would be bottom feeding, tanking and chasing lottery picks which they didn't have to do because they had the Nets picks for a few years.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:33 am    Post subject:

Look how many picks the Celtics have had since 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history

No heist required. They had volume drafting and basically really hit on just 33% of them.

Meanwhile, LAL is more of an 80% hit rate. If LAL had that many opportunities with their draft success rate, assuming they'd keep the roster, it's a dynasty.

Essentially, BOS did "The Process" better than the 76ers. Meanwhile, since 2014, the Lakers won a ring already.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:35 am    Post subject:

If the Celtics end up being title contenders for the next 5-6 years I hope that really puts pressure on Jeanie to sell the team especially if this Lakers FO can’t put together a relevant team.
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BirdMagicLegend
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:41 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Look how many picks the Celtics have had since 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history

No heist required. They had volume drafting and basically really hit on just 33% of them.

Meanwhile, LAL is more of an 80% hit rate. If LAL had that many opportunities with their draft success rate, assuming they'd keep the roster, it's a dynasty.

Essentially, BOS did "The Process" better than the 76ers. Meanwhile, since 2014, the Lakers won a ring already.


I see your point about the draft but I wouldn't say he's terrible if this team has been consistently making it to the Eastern Conference finals for a few years and it just so happens that this team now that is in the Finals is full of homegrown young players built from the draft. The 33% hit rate resulted in a competitive team at least and Jayson Tatum who Laker fans want on their team to be the successor to Kobe.

As for the ring, great but your Laker fans are making topics like this one where the price of a ring is apparently not worth mortgaging the future?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:45 am    Post subject:

If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:56 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:10 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.

I know, but the key there and 3 of the 4 yrs he's been here is he is injury prone with wear and tear injuries. We needed a legit #2. Not a bunch of really solid guys and 1 maybe #2. We swung and won. There is nothing worth debating when it comes to maybe winning and winning.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:12 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.

I know, but the key there and 3 of the 4 yrs he's been here is he is injury prone with wear and tear injuries. We needed a legit #2. Not a bunch of really solid guys and 1 maybe #2. We swung and won. There is nothing worth debating when it comes to maybe winning and winning.


So if your wife is a degenerate gambler and she wins big in Vegas... it's okay for her to continue that life?

Winning is good when it's accompanied by good solid strategy.

When you win without it... it will eventually bite you in the ass.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:12 am    Post subject:

The decision to sign James was always a high risk plan.

When he was signed, the narrative was basically that we all knew his career wear and tear had a “if they can get one ring in four years”. How many times did we discuss some variation of the “can’t waste a single year as the clock is ticking” in regards to strategy. We knew his Klutch influence would create drama over his stay here. It always has.

This collapse was expected and inevitable IMO.

I can appreciate the Championship and I can be disappointed in last season’s underachieving equally. And I can lack optimism and hope for any magical quick fixes. Looking at my Lakers critically doesn’t make me a bad or “spoiled” fan.

IMO continuing down this same path just delays the rebuild to regain that hope for the future. Lakers need to pull the plug but won’t due to the marketing and business decisions. No easy answers. Someone already stated it best, “Lakers credit card has been maxed and is now past due”.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:13 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Look how many picks the Celtics have had since 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history

No heist required. They had volume drafting and basically really hit on just 33% of them.

Meanwhile, LAL is more of an 80% hit rate. If LAL had that many opportunities with their draft success rate, assuming they'd keep the roster, it's a dynasty.

Essentially, BOS did "The Process" better than the 76ers. Meanwhile, since 2014, the Lakers won a ring already.


I see your point about the draft but I wouldn't say he's terrible if this team has been consistently making it to the Eastern Conference finals for a few years and it just so happens that this team now that is in the Finals is full of homegrown young players built from the draft. The 33% hit rate resulted in a competitive team at least and Jayson Tatum who Laker fans want on their team to be the successor to Kobe.

As for the ring, great but your Laker fans are making topics like this one where the price of a ring is apparently not worth mortgaging the future?


The difference with the Lakers compared to the rest of the league, is they cycle from championship to lottery, quickly. But I'd rather ride that wave 1-2 times and get the ring faster, instead of sticking homegrown and waiting 8 years for 1 new Finals appearance.

Boston's cycle, took longer than LAL, and that's with the coaching and FO changes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Please get it right. Brad Stevens became an executive this season but the team was mostly built by Danny Ainge. Stevens only put the finishing touches on this Celtics team.

Ainge drafted Tatum, Brown, Timelord, Pritchard, Grant Williams, Marcus Smart. Stevens got Derek White and Horford back while getting rid of Kemba Walker and he picked Ime Udoka as his successor.


This is true, though the finishing touches matter. I don't like Ainge very much, but I'll give him credit for a successful run in charge of the Celtics. Before Ainge took charge, the Celtics had been largely irrelevant for 20 years. The highlight of those 20 years may have been the Rick Pitino rant. Ainge got them a title and another trip to the Finals, then rebuilt them into a consistent playoff team for a decade. It's not like everything he touched turn to gold (Gordon Hayward jumps to mind), but he did pretty well with a team that is middle of the pack in revenue.


First of all, Danny Ainge is with Utah now. You don't have to give him any credit. Boston was terrible with him at the helm.

Second of all, if LAL had Boston's picks, they'd have a decade long dynasty instead of a potential one-hit wonder.


With Ainge at the helm, Boston went to the Finals twice and won once, went to the ECF four other times, and went to the EC semifinals three other times. For a team with middle of the pack revenue, that's pretty good. I'm sure that there were Celtics fans who were frustrated with him, but that's because many Celtics fans (like many Laker fans) believe that they have a divine right to greatness. The difference is that we're a high revenue team in a more desirable market than Boston.

Since 2008, the Celtics had two #3 picks, one #6 pick, and no other picks higher than #14. We had three #2 picks and a #7 pick (plus the #4 that we traded to the Pelicans). We traded away all of them except Randle, who we didn't keep. If we had the Celtics' picks, that's most likely what we would have done with them.

I don't like Ainge. Even aside from that, he was not without his flaws as a GM. But I'll still give him respect for doing a pretty good job with the Celtics over an extended period of time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:18 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Look how many picks the Celtics have had since 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history

No heist required. They had volume drafting and basically really hit on just 33% of them.

Meanwhile, LAL is more of an 80% hit rate. If LAL had that many opportunities with their draft success rate, assuming they'd keep the roster, it's a dynasty.

Essentially, BOS did "The Process" better than the 76ers. Meanwhile, since 2014, the Lakers won a ring already.


I see your point about the draft but I wouldn't say he's terrible if this team has been consistently making it to the Eastern Conference finals for a few years and it just so happens that this team now that is in the Finals is full of homegrown young players built from the draft. The 33% hit rate resulted in a competitive team at least and Jayson Tatum who Laker fans want on their team to be the successor to Kobe.

As for the ring, great but your Laker fans are making topics like this one where the price of a ring is apparently not worth mortgaging the future?


The difference with the Lakers compared to the rest of the league, is they cycle from championship to lottery, quickly. But I'd rather ride that wave 1-2 times and get the ring faster, instead of sticking homegrown and waiting 8 years for 1 new Finals appearance.

Boston's cycle, took longer than LAL, and that's with the coaching and FO changes.


The two elite plan was to add TWO elites to the young core while keeping our picks.

Magic courted LBJ probably by giving him the keys to the kingdom... and sure we got competitive faster but if LBJ wasn't willing to allow the front office to do their job, we should have chosen two different elites instead of the best elite who makes you trade your team.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:25 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Look how many picks the Celtics have had since 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Celtics_draft_history

No heist required. They had volume drafting and basically really hit on just 33% of them.

Meanwhile, LAL is more of an 80% hit rate. If LAL had that many opportunities with their draft success rate, assuming they'd keep the roster, it's a dynasty.

Essentially, BOS did "The Process" better than the 76ers. Meanwhile, since 2014, the Lakers won a ring already.


I see your point about the draft but I wouldn't say he's terrible if this team has been consistently making it to the Eastern Conference finals for a few years and it just so happens that this team now that is in the Finals is full of homegrown young players built from the draft. The 33% hit rate resulted in a competitive team at least and Jayson Tatum who Laker fans want on their team to be the successor to Kobe.

As for the ring, great but your Laker fans are making topics like this one where the price of a ring is apparently not worth mortgaging the future?


The difference with the Lakers compared to the rest of the league, is they cycle from championship to lottery, quickly. But I'd rather ride that wave 1-2 times and get the ring faster, instead of sticking homegrown and waiting 8 years for 1 new Finals appearance.

Boston's cycle, took longer than LAL, and that's with the coaching and FO changes.


The two elite plan was to add TWO elites to the young core while keeping our picks.

Magic courted LBJ probably by giving him the keys to the kingdom... and sure we got competitive faster but if LBJ wasn't willing to allow the front office to do their job, we should have chosen two different elites instead of the best elite who makes you trade your team.


The Lakers have built dynasties usually with 1 drafted guy, and 1 FA, not 2 FA signings or trade combinations.

If you want to consider it detrimental, then it should have been Tatum as that hypothetical draft guy. We couldn't wait for Ingram's development, and then the FA signing would have been LeBron.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:30 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.

I know, but the key there and 3 of the 4 yrs he's been here is he is injury prone with wear and tear injuries. We needed a legit #2. Not a bunch of really solid guys and 1 maybe #2. We swung and won. There is nothing worth debating when it comes to maybe winning and winning.


So if your wife is a degenerate gambler and she wins big in Vegas... it's okay for her to continue that life?

Winning is good when it's accompanied by good solid strategy.

When you win without it... it will eventually bite you in the ass.

they followed a win with a better team on paper. Last year was when they bet the mortgage and lost. But they aren't living check to check so they play on. First bet was hiring a seemingly high-potential coach.

From reports, they don't want to part with FRP which means they are playing it safe for the time being. Eventually, to win they will have to make another big gamble.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:43 am    Post subject:

Jerry went to the finals 16 times in 33 years as the owner of the Lakers. The kids are not a good custodian of the brand (although I like Jeanie). Luckily, Jerry gave his kids the gift that keeps giving (a crazy TV contract). As time goes on, players are going to care less and less about the Lakers. We have been very spoiled being a fan of one of the greatest franchises in all of sports. That being said, I believe we may have to brace ourselves for potentially the worst run that we have ever experienced. I can see us having a good year next season (with a lot of luck), but it looks like dire times are around the corner. I am not sure if its lost hope or maybe making an honest assessment.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:43 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.

I know, but the key there and 3 of the 4 yrs he's been here is he is injury prone with wear and tear injuries. We needed a legit #2. Not a bunch of really solid guys and 1 maybe #2. We swung and won. There is nothing worth debating when it comes to maybe winning and winning.


So if your wife is a degenerate gambler and she wins big in Vegas... it's okay for her to continue that life?

Winning is good when it's accompanied by good solid strategy.

When you win without it... it will eventually bite you in the ass.

they followed a win with a better team on paper. Last year was when they bet the mortgage and lost. But they aren't living check to check so they play on. First bet was hiring a seemingly high-potential coach.

From reports, they don't want to part with FRP which means they are playing it safe for the time being. Eventually, to win they will have to make another big gamble.


I loved the young kids... but even at the time of the trade... I was thinking well maybe you can keep one of the major assets or some more picks.

I see trades here daily... almost all of them ridiculous... but the one thing they have in common is that they benefit the Lakers.

They always are skewed slightly in favor of our team.

Even in their wildest dreams they wouldn't propose giving up Ingram, Ball, Josh Hart, Darius Garland/DeAndre Hunter, two more first rounders, and two picks swaps for often injured Anthony Davis.

Since Ball turned out to be injured more than AD... this mitigated the damage somewhat... but you have all these other players just to make room for the two elites... then you have the trade itself... then you have the crippling pick swaps that didn't allow you to maximize the team during LBJ's window.

For a Klutch client that we probably could have on the down low convinced to wait a year.

It's not losing the kids that bothered me... it's the sheer scale of the trade that bothered me.

Take away some of those wasted assets and then I'm not nearly as annoyed.

Then you have the Russ trade that was even worse.

I have no problem swinging for the fences... I'm just used to our team being on the winning end of those deals.

This has not been the case the last three years... and it's because the front office has been bargaining with a gun to their head. You can't win trades if you don't have the power to walk away from the table and the opposition has known it.
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danzag
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:49 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.


I mean... what?
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If someone wins the Powerball... that means they are wealthy... doesn't mean they are smart about money.

It frustrates me to no end that people continue to conflate winning a title with front office competence.

Fred Claire won a title and then the Dodgers didn't win for 32 years.

The other comment that drives me nuts is that "it's a new era" and we should accept the new standard of winning a title once every 30 years because of parity.

You can think that all you want... but I bet people like Pop and Riley don't think like that.

Should always strive to do better than the league average... especially when you live in one of the most appealing markets in the country.

Is it harder to win in bunches? Probably... but we were in a position to be in Boston's position than our current one... and I'd personally rather see a team that was competitive for the next ten years than one that lucked out into a title and then put us into the dark ages.

If LBJ leaves after a one year extension... sure I can live with that and enjoy the next two seasons... but if Jeanie signs him longer or hires him as management... it's going to be the farewell tour 2.0 without all the draft picks.

this doesn't make sense.

Trade good players for supposed top 5 guy = Win ring

Follow up with a better team on paper = things happen we lose

Make a bad trade but it was a swing for the fences= Failed

Replaced coach with a guy who may be "it".

Other than Russ trade, which was a doozy they have been solid. Had AD been healthy against suns do we win?

They took a huge risk and failed. Like all great things.


We were winning at a 67% clip with 21 year old Ingram and Ball before LBJ tore his groin and threw a fit.

The key variable was LBJ. AD is a great player but unhealthy... never won anything even with Jrue who won a title with Giannis.

So with strong upper management you'd keep all the young assets and LBJ would have to live with it... and we'd all be better off.

LBJ would win with almost anyone... he just got impatient... and now he's at the age where he needs more help... and unless AD takes a huge turn this season... it's not going to be enough.

We'd be way better off with young assets, long wings, and draft picks right now.

I know, but the key there and 3 of the 4 yrs he's been here is he is injury prone with wear and tear injuries. We needed a legit #2. Not a bunch of really solid guys and 1 maybe #2. We swung and won. There is nothing worth debating when it comes to maybe winning and winning.


So if your wife is a degenerate gambler and she wins big in Vegas... it's okay for her to continue that life?

Winning is good when it's accompanied by good solid strategy.

When you win without it... it will eventually bite you in the ass.

they followed a win with a better team on paper. Last year was when they bet the mortgage and lost. But they aren't living check to check so they play on. First bet was hiring a seemingly high-potential coach.

From reports, they don't want to part with FRP which means they are playing it safe for the time being. Eventually, to win they will have to make another big gamble.


I loved the young kids... but even at the time of the trade... I was thinking well maybe you can keep one of the major assets or some more picks.

I see trades here daily... almost all of them ridiculous... but the one thing they have in common is that they benefit the Lakers.

They always are skewed slightly in favor of our team.

Even in their wildest dreams they wouldn't propose giving up Ingram, Ball, Josh Hart, Darius Garland/DeAndre Hunter, two more first rounders, and two picks swaps for often injured Anthony Davis.

Since Ball turned out to be injured more than AD... this mitigated the damage somewhat... but you have all these other players just to make room for the two elites... then you have the trade itself... then you have the crippling pick swaps that didn't allow you to maximize the team during LBJ's window.

For a Klutch client that we probably could have on the down low convinced to wait a year.

It's not losing the kids that bothered me... it's the sheer scale of the trade that bothered me.

Take away some of those wasted assets and then I'm not nearly as annoyed.

Then you have the Russ trade that was even worse.

I have no problem swinging for the fences... I'm just used to our team being on the winning end of those deals.

This has not been the case the last three years... and it's because the front office has been bargaining with a gun to their head. You can't win trades if you don't have the power to walk away from the table and the opposition has known it.

The russ deal was the killer. Fortunately, it is recognized. Worst case we have him for one more season. Thats ok. If him, bron and AD buy in we will at least be entertaining to watch which was stripped from us last year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I see that the Lakers have multiple TV shows going on. It's like Jeanie and Co. are just caring about the adulation rather than constructing a sustainable winning product.


In Jeanie’s defense that is all she knows, media and promotions. The basketball part is foreign to her.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:

The russ deal was the killer. Fortunately, it is recognized. Worst case we have him for one more season. Thats ok. If him, bron and AD buy in we will at least be entertaining to watch which was stripped from us last year.


For how negative I've been... I even think we can compete next year if AD is healthy and LBJ hasn't gone downhill too much due to age.

I'm not worried about next year.

I'm worried Jeanie will do something dumb like give him a long extension.

If we do next year and maybe one year extension... I can enjoy the team.

I'm worried they will have a semi good year and resign not only LBJ for three years but even Russ.

If I knew they wouldn't do that... I can relax and have fun with whatever happens.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm realistically thinking 2024 cap space is what we are going for.

LBJ will likely do a 1 year extension. And we go into 2024 with AD and possible cap space for 2 max FAs. (Brown, Murray, KAT, Booker).


The question is, who of that group will actually be a FA and who of them will re-sign with their team? I could maybe see Booker if it is his team, which would mean no AD. I would have thought maybe KAT but the Wolves are under new management and they will likely look more favorable than Laker management.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
Halflife wrote:

The russ deal was the killer. Fortunately, it is recognized. Worst case we have him for one more season. Thats ok. If him, bron and AD buy in we will at least be entertaining to watch which was stripped from us last year.


For how negative I've been... I even think we can compete next year if AD is healthy and LBJ hasn't gone downhill too much due to age.

I'm not worried about next year.

I'm worried Jeanie will do something dumb like give him a long extension.

If we do next year and maybe one year extension... I can enjoy the team.

I'm worried they will have a semi good year and resign not only LBJ for three years but even Russ.

If I knew they wouldn't do that... I can relax and have fun with whatever happens.

Bron has never been a long extension guy IIRC. We will not pay russ above market value if we end up re-signing him at all. All GM's tell the agents to go find their worth and come back unless they are the top.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Re-sign Russ? They’ve been trying to trade him 1 month into the season last year.
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LBJ missed games:
20-21: 27/72 (37.5% missed)
21-22: 26/82 (31% missed)

AD missed games:
20-21: 36/72 (50% missed)
21-22: 40/82 (48% missed)

Lakers wins and win%:
20-21: 42-30 (58% win)
21-22: 33-49 (40% win)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:34 pm    Post subject:

there is hope... however, Lakers don't have a Jerry West anymore.
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