Has anyone here lost hope?
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:36 am    Post subject:

There's many ways to use capspace to attain assets. You don't have to just use the basic sign a max player or bust strategy.

KCP and Danny Green were signed as free agents, as was Caruso, Rondo, McGee. That's 5 of your top 8 players in a season you won a title.

Just make good decisions. Now sure one can argue that Rob isn't the person to make those calls. Fine. But if we have that perspective, we're screwed no matter what, and need another incredible fortunate situation/series of events like we had in 2019 that results in success.

There are no quick immediate fixes like we did in 2019 because we have a 3 years older/declined Lebron, and not the assets we had in 2019 to trade for in prime AD/superstar.

Anyway point is, I don't think a well run team needed to be stuck in mediocrity the rest of the decade. There could be ways out of this, but it needs us to make some very good decisions about what we do with Bron, WB, AD and as well as what we do with the capspace. I certainly haven't lost hope, however I do think so long as WB and Lebron are on the same team, we're just delaying the inevitable (and wasting time being a "show" vs an actual project to get towards the next title team).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:44 am    Post subject:

They also have neglected for years to mend the fences with Jerry West, which is insane. West actually knows how to manage and put together a bona fide roster, and having him back would immediately improve the current perceptions of the org.

Of course you have to take the “bad” with the good. West doesn’t mollycoddle people. He says what he thinks and sometimes that can make folks uncomfortable.

The org should be getting ready for the day that LeBron hangs it up (and it’s coming).
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:31 am    Post subject:

What bothers me is that the Lakers have as of now, wasted two 1sts trying to jam a ball dominant point guard (that can’t shoot 3s) next to LBJ. If they trade Russ likely another 1st. So 3 1sts for what? It’s this level of carelessness and lack of creativity that worries me. KLUTCH/LBJ really papered over the futility of the Jeanie run era by winning in 2020. Here’s to hoping that Rob can stop being completely outflanked as a GM.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:48 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
What bothers me is that the Lakers have as of now, wasted two 1sts trying to jam a ball dominant point guard (that can’t shoot 3s) next to LBJ. If they trade Russ likely another 1st. So 3 1sts for what? It’s this level of carelessness and lack of creativity that worries me. KLUTCH/LBJ really papered over the futility of the Jeanie run era by winning in 2020. Here’s to hoping that Rob can stop being completely outflanked as a GM.
The FO has bever been good at maximizing assets(signed Moz/Deng, traded Clarkson and zubac, etc) Look how they handled Randle, if Im Rob I match the offer and then flip him for assets. You don't let a young player like that walk for nothing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:01 am    Post subject:

zambia wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The "mercenary era" will come to an end soon. I hope no more "draft capitol" is lost. I loathe the narrative that our future lottery picks are "middle schoolers." I am curious what Rob will do when he finally has money to spend in free agency next summer. The last time they signed Danny Green after losing out on Kawhi Leonard and it worked out.

I think they will try to build around Anthony. Darvin Ham could implement the same system they ran in Milwaukee for Giannis. I trust Rob will build the roster for it.


Why do you trust Rob?


I don’t trust Rob after he went for Westbrook. But that could change if he can get Lilliard
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:41 am    Post subject:

zambia wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The "mercenary era" will come to an end soon. I hope no more "draft capitol" is lost. I loathe the narrative that our future lottery picks are "middle schoolers." I am curious what Rob will do when he finally has money to spend in free agency next summer. The last time they signed Danny Green after losing out on Kawhi Leonard and it worked out.

I think they will try to build around Anthony. Darvin Ham could implement the same system they ran in Milwaukee for Giannis. I trust Rob will build the roster for it.


Why do you trust Rob?


Spoiler alert: no one should!

When he “finally” had money to spend we let AC, Schro and even a restricted Jules walk away for nothing.

When he “finally” had money to spend, he struck out in 2018 & 2019 free agency securing a playing mate next to the guy that wanted to be here in LABron.

I know no one is asking, but you wanna know what I loathe? The narrative that our FO is suddenly competent when Magic quit. You continuously see certain fans giving Rob a pass when dude literally robbed us of our assets. It’s been such a wild narrative and some folks still trust the guy. Yikes!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:37 pm    Post subject:

l4kerz wrote:
zambia wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The "mercenary era" will come to an end soon. I hope no more "draft capitol" is lost. I loathe the narrative that our future lottery picks are "middle schoolers." I am curious what Rob will do when he finally has money to spend in free agency next summer. The last time they signed Danny Green after losing out on Kawhi Leonard and it worked out.

I think they will try to build around Anthony. Darvin Ham could implement the same system they ran in Milwaukee for Giannis. I trust Rob will build the roster for it.


Why do you trust Rob?


I don’t trust Rob after he went for Westbrook. But that could change if he can get Lilliard


Yes, another small guard who can’t defend is exactly what we need. Hopefully Jeanie will be adverse to the repeater tax.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:03 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Now, if for some inexplicable reason, the Lakers re-up Russ, then it's all over for me and the Lakers.

The same opinion should be for Lebron's extension though. There is absolutely no sense to extending him, without a legit championship window. You're giving him the Kobe treatment when he hasn't even earned Shaq's level Laker stripes.

Lets see how it plays out, but I can tolerate one more year of stat paddling old WB+ old Lebron and a 45 win level team that makes some noise in the playoffs. That's fine if they want to do that as they're not willing to trade Lebron and trading WB means you need more assets attached to him which you can't attain. So ok, ride it out.

But a year from now, I hope our sights are set on mid-career type of FA's and players that can play a role, and not big names. We don't need big name FA's, we need smart good signings like KCP, Danny Green (only younger) etc. and to draft well. Just replacing WB's near 50M a year from now, with 3 solid mid-career role players will go a long way if that can be done. And punt on the max, unless you get a legit in prime star to replace Lebron's salary/spot. No way I extend Lebron. He escapes criticism because he stays healthier than AD, But in 4 years, Lebron has had 1 elite year. The rest of his years have beed the worst of his career if you compare to his time in CLE/Miami. A lot of missed games, a lot of poor chemistry with teammates. Dysfunction. It's definitely time for us to move on after this last year, IMO.


I would agree with you in a vacuum. But LeBron is ostensibly the shadow director for Klutch Sports. If the Lakers upset LeBron, then they will have burned a major sports agency with many high-profile clients.

What LeBron wants, LeBron gets.
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gng930
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Please get it right. Brad Stevens became an executive this season but the team was mostly built by Danny Ainge. Stevens only put the finishing touches on this Celtics team.

Ainge drafted Tatum, Brown, Timelord, Pritchard, Grant Williams, Marcus Smart. Stevens got Derek White and Horford back while getting rid of Kemba Walker and he picked Ime Udoka as his successor.


This is true, though the finishing touches matter. I don't like Ainge very much, but I'll give him credit for a successful run in charge of the Celtics. Before Ainge took charge, the Celtics had been largely irrelevant for 20 years. The highlight of those 20 years may have been the Rick Pitino rant. Ainge got them a title and another trip to the Finals, then rebuilt them into a consistent playoff team for a decade. It's not like everything he touched turn to gold (Gordon Hayward jumps to mind), but he did pretty well with a team that is middle of the pack in revenue.


First of all, Danny Ainge is with Utah now. You don't have to give him any credit. Boston was terrible with him at the helm.

Second of all, if LAL had Boston's picks, they'd have a decade long dynasty instead of a potential one-hit wonder.


Thank you. They have absolutely squandered their assets as well as a HOF trio that only happened because a former Celtic happened to be the Wolves GM at the time of the KG trade. Ainge also burned a lot of bridges by fleecing other executives while never really wiping that smirk off his face. It will be interesting to see how he performs in Utah. With his comments downplaying the rampant racist in Boston, I can't imagine Donovan Mitchell, who has been at the forefront of the social justice movement, wanting to stay there much longer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:00 pm    Post subject:

To ease your concerns a bit, Warriors have the slight advantage now, but it's not by much. The fact that they have 2 home games out of the possible 3 helps them tremendously. I still think the series could go either way, but Curry is on a rampage, and it doesn't look like he's stopping until they win. No reason to lose hope... yet.
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gng930
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Now, if for some inexplicable reason, the Lakers re-up Russ, then it's all over for me and the Lakers.

The same opinion should be for Lebron's extension though. There is absolutely no sense to extending him, without a legit championship window. You're giving him the Kobe treatment when he hasn't even earned Shaq's level Laker stripes.

Lets see how it plays out, but I can tolerate one more year of stat paddling old WB+ old Lebron and a 45 win level team that makes some noise in the playoffs. That's fine if they want to do that as they're not willing to trade Lebron and trading WB means you need more assets attached to him which you can't attain. So ok, ride it out.

But a year from now, I hope our sights are set on mid-career type of FA's and players that can play a role, and not big names. We don't need big name FA's, we need smart good signings like KCP, Danny Green (only younger) etc. and to draft well. Just replacing WB's near 50M a year from now, with 3 solid mid-career role players will go a long way if that can be done. And punt on the max, unless you get a legit in prime star to replace Lebron's salary/spot. No way I extend Lebron. He escapes criticism because he stays healthier than AD, But in 4 years, Lebron has had 1 elite year. The rest of his years have beed the worst of his career if you compare to his time in CLE/Miami. A lot of missed games, a lot of poor chemistry with teammates. Dysfunction. It's definitely time for us to move on after this last year, IMO.


But what's in the 2023 FA class? Jokic/Beal likely off the board. You would be making even bigger mistakes than Moz/Deng by using 2 max slots on non-star FAs. I'd be ok (not happy, but ok) if LBJ is extended by one year so that by 2024, he comes off when we have a better FA crop.


They wouldn’t have to use two max slots. Imagine renting some of that cap space for some future picks. That’s the kind of thing that progressive thinking teams do.


It's a good way to punt but those kinds of deals will get you role players at best, not alphas. Jim/Mitch had a knack for those kinds of deals but the most memorable one to me was for Jeremy Lin and eventually Larry Nance. Maybe you punt a few years in a row with that strategy but eventually you need to turn that cap space into superstars before those rookie contracts are up.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:58 am    Post subject:

Or you could just draft well, in that case you reupholster those young players and have some trade material to get a star player. Hoarding cap space and chasing every big FA is the most simplistic, low intelligence way to try to build a team. It’s no surprise that this management group chose that way because they have no concept of how to build an NBA team.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject:

They got Larry Nance Jr with the 27th pick, it doesn't get much better than that. A couple of Larry Nance Jrs are not getting you a superstar player in return. Even the Celtics who did well with their early lottery picks needed to synchronize that with timely cap space to build their current roster.

I'm not disagreeing with your strategy (especially if they strike out on their primary targets), it's certainly better than the MozDeng pathway. It's just that you're unlikely to get superstars with it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject:

The Lakers have never really needed to build through the draft. Their learning curve in this area remains steep, though how many teams are really consistently good at it? And what kind of results are considered acceptable? It's different for each team. We're seeing how frustrating it can be. It's very competitive.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:42 am    Post subject:

The team did obtain some quality young assets, but they were thrown into the fire of unrealistic expectations. It's hard enough for the elite players like Shaq and Lebron to navigate through that kind of minefield. Revolving door of head coaches and staffs did not provide any stability.

They desperately want to have more titles than the C's, in this lifetime, like ASAP. They rolled the dice and went with a high-risk plan. When poor execution is combined with low luck, you pay a heavy price. It will take time to fix. Welcome to the real NBA, what most teams go through. It can be ugly and frustrating.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:33 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
They got Larry Nance Jr with the 27th pick, it doesn't get much better than that. A couple of Larry Nance Jrs are not getting you a superstar player in return. Even the Celtics who did well with their early lottery picks needed to synchronize that with timely cap space to build their current roster.

I'm not disagreeing with your strategy (especially if they strike out on their primary targets), it's certainly better than the MozDeng pathway. It's just that you're unlikely to get superstars with it.


Always thought Nance Jr would retire here. Griffin valued him so much that was willing to give up a 1st (protected) for him last season. Pels just lucked out when Blazers included him in the CJ deal. A player like Nance isn't going to give you superstar play, but he does all the little things that add up to winning. I can't count the number of times he generated extra possessions for the Pels. He was a big reason the Pels overachieved in the postseason. He's going to be a big piece in any kind of postseason success the Pels have next year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
The team did obtain some quality young assets, but they were thrown into the fire of unrealistic expectations. It's hard enough for the elite players like Shaq and Lebron to navigate through that kind of minefield. Revolving door of head coaches and staffs did not provide any stability.

They desperately want to have more titles than the C's, in this lifetime, like ASAP. They rolled the dice and went with a high-risk plan. When poor execution is combined with low luck, you pay a heavy price. It will take time to fix. Welcome to the real NBA, what most teams go through. It can be ugly and frustrating.


Yes, we no longer have that blue chipper to build multiple teams around, ala Kobe. Unfortunately we also no longer have the minds in the FO to construct a cohesive team. For the 4th season in a row we will have major player turnover. As a fan I hope that they are watchable during that time, they weren’t watchable this past season.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:45 am    Post subject:

This FO has been pushing the narrative, Lakers vs Celtics total title wins.

This past year they played that annoying radio "Mission 18" promo to the very end, as if they are clueless.

I'm judging this FO from the time Phil left.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
The Lakers have never really needed to build through the draft.

Norm Nixon, Magic Johnson, Michael Cooper were pg’s for each of the five 80’s championships and all were drafted by the Lakers.

Derek Fisher was drafted by L.A. and was the pg for the next 5 championships.

Byron Scott was drafted and then traded to L.A. He was part of 3 of the 80’s championships.

Kobe was drafted, traded to L.A., and part of 5 championships.

I’m not even considering other positions. 4 essential pg’s and 2 sg’s, drafted, or acquired after the draft were key parts of 10 of the last 11 championships.

Clearly the Lakers needed to draft those players. Nobody could run with the speed of the 80’s Lakers, and with Kobe and Fisher they dominated for 10 years.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:26 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
nevitt_smrek wrote:
The Lakers have never really needed to build through the draft.

Norm Nixon, Magic Johnson, Michael Cooper were pg’s for each of the five 80’s championships and all were drafted by the Lakers.

Derek Fisher was drafted by L.A. and was the pg for the next 5 championships.

Byron Scott was drafted and then traded to L.A. He was part of 3 of the 80’s championships.

Kobe was drafted, traded to L.A., and part of 5 championships.

I’m not even considering other positions. 4 essential pg’s and 2 sg’s, drafted, or acquired after the draft were key parts of 10 of the last 11 championships.

Clearly the Lakers needed to draft those players. Nobody could run with the speed of the 80’s Lakers, and with Kobe and Fisher they dominated for 10 years.


Thank you! This narrative that the Lakers don’t build through drafts is just wrong and somehow the current front office seems to have drank that kool aid as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:11 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
nevitt_smrek wrote:
The team did obtain some quality young assets, but they were thrown into the fire of unrealistic expectations. It's hard enough for the elite players like Shaq and Lebron to navigate through that kind of minefield. Revolving door of head coaches and staffs did not provide any stability.

They desperately want to have more titles than the C's, in this lifetime, like ASAP. They rolled the dice and went with a high-risk plan. When poor execution is combined with low luck, you pay a heavy price. It will take time to fix. Welcome to the real NBA, what most teams go through. It can be ugly and frustrating.


Yes, we no longer have that blue chipper to build multiple teams around, ala Kobe. Unfortunately we also no longer have the minds in the FO to construct a cohesive team. For the 4th season in a row we will have major player turnover. As a fan I hope that they are watchable during that time, they weren’t watchable this past season.
Ingram was supposed to be that player. Who knows what could've been if lebron doesn't pull his groin against the warriors. Ingrams last 8 games with us, 25ppg while shooting 56% on fgs and 50% from 3. He hit a different level this year in the playoffs, 27ppg/6 assists 40% from 3. I take him over Tatum any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject:

Hope? No.

Confidence in the current ownership? Yes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject:

E_Wulf420 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
nevitt_smrek wrote:
The team did obtain some quality young assets, but they were thrown into the fire of unrealistic expectations. It's hard enough for the elite players like Shaq and Lebron to navigate through that kind of minefield. Revolving door of head coaches and staffs did not provide any stability.

They desperately want to have more titles than the C's, in this lifetime, like ASAP. They rolled the dice and went with a high-risk plan. When poor execution is combined with low luck, you pay a heavy price. It will take time to fix. Welcome to the real NBA, what most teams go through. It can be ugly and frustrating.


Yes, we no longer have that blue chipper to build multiple teams around, ala Kobe. Unfortunately we also no longer have the minds in the FO to construct a cohesive team. For the 4th season in a row we will have major player turnover. As a fan I hope that they are watchable during that time, they weren’t watchable this past season.
Ingram was supposed to be that player. Who knows what could've been if lebron doesn't pull his groin against the warriors. Ingrams last 8 games with us, 25ppg while shooting 56% on fgs and 50% from 3. He hit a different level this year in the playoffs, 27ppg/6 assists 40% from 3. I take him over Tatum any day of the week and twice on Sundays.


tatum's a better defender
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:39 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Hope? No.

Confidence in the current ownership? Yes.


Interesting, current ownership is why I have doubts. Their inability, or reluctance, to invest in solid NBA minds are the big question mark.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:14 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Or you could just draft well, in that case you reupholster those young players and have some trade material to get a star player.


If there is one thing the Lakers have done extraordinarily well it is the scouting department and the draft. It's a bit of a shame that they have traded away so many picks. But with all the complaints about taking Lonzo over Tatum (despite Tatum being the #3 pick on almost every draft projection) the Lakers other picks in recent years including late draft steals in Nance, THT, Kuzma, Hart, and Zubac. Rightly picking Russell over Okafor when the consensus was to go for Okafor. And undrafted steals like Bryant, Reaves, and Caruso. Not to mention expected picks that they didn't hose up in Ingram and Randle.
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