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Lakeshow23_
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Joined: 02 May 2021
Posts: 667
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | Did you not watch Lebron play last year? Stat-wise, he was better than bubble Lebron. Even if Lebron was superman last year, he still wouldn't have been able to carry deadweights like Brick, Melo and Ariza to a championship.
Lebron is still ready to win another championship but the rest of the Lakers aren't due to the gross mis-management of our assets by our FO. If managed correctly, aka keeping the championship team intact, we might be looking at 2 or 3 championship by now. But I'll gladly and gracefully accept the one championship Lebron has blessed us with. |
1. You're talking about Lebron's counting numbers. His impact metrics didn't come close to '20. For example, his total RAPTOR went from +7.8 in '20 to +4.7 last year. +4.7 is good, but it's not the level for which he is known.
2. We would not be looking at 2-3 championships by now if the front office kept the team intact. Lebron and Davis would still get hurt. The '20 supporting cast wasn't winning anything without Lebron and Davis at close to full strength. |
They would have made the playoffs last season, at the very least. Lebron, Caruso, Kuzma, DG/DS, KCP, Javale is stout enough defensively to secure a 6-8 seed and AD was healthy right in time for the playoff push. More importantly, they would have had the assets and flexibility to improve the team. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43990
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: |
They would have made the playoffs last season, at the very least. Lebron, Caruso, Kuzma, DG/DS, KCP, Javale is stout enough defensively to secure a 6-8 seed and AD was healthy right in time for the playoff push. More importantly, they would have had the assets and flexibility to improve the team. |
Playoffs is #1 seed to #6 seed. Play-in is #7 seed to #10 seed.
Secure #6-8 seed? That's a play-in team. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23788
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Deal is off, pacers.
It’s now a 2nd round pick or nothing. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you guys hear Billy Mac mention Crowder and then bringing up the Lakers as a potential destination? |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Did you guys hear Billy Mac mention Crowder and then bringing up the Lakers as a potential destination? |
No. You didn't either.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Did you guys hear Billy Mac mention Crowder and then bringing up the Lakers as a potential destination? |
No. You didn't either. |
They were talking about the Suns situation and then they bought up Crowder when Stu and Mac started to talk about where he might land Billy Mac bought up the Lakers in a obvious speculative way. |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Did you guys hear Billy Mac mention Crowder and then bringing up the Lakers as a potential destination? |
No. You didn't either. |
They were talking about the Suns situation and then they bought up Crowder when Stu and Mac started to talk about where he might land Billy Mac bought up the Lakers in a obvious speculative way. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
AD and Lebron won a title together |
3 years ago. Lebron is 38 year old and Anthony is almost 30 years old. |
Westbrook is 34 next month and you wanted to trade Lebron/AD to build around Russ  |
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
AD and Lebron won a title together |
3 years ago. Lebron is 38 year old and Anthony is almost 30 years old. |
Westbrook is 34 next month and you wanted to trade Lebron/AD to build around Russ |
TJ is so funny
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7158
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry but I do not believe Rob was close to sending out 2 Frp's for anything other than Kyrie (I do not like Rob but he is not a moron). All these rumors are worthless and mean nothing. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:49 am Post subject: |
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The thing about continuity is you don't have to develop chemistry. It's already there. AD/Lebron and the coaching staff and players in place pre-WB trade and all changes already had a level and chemistry.
Now I fully agree with the injuries and decline in level/production from AD/Lebron, we wouldn't have won an additiional ring. However, I do think we would be more old Spurs like. If you recall those late Duncan years, they didn't win a lot every year and some years got bounced early. But they were in the mix, and then beat Miami in 2014. If you think about that, all they did was keep their best players together even through physical decline and upgrade around them.
We probably should have done the same and let Lebron see his Laker tenure out until 2024 that way. But we don't have that sort of person/people in the FO. The FO is filled with guys like Pelinka, Rambis etc. and you have klutch influence. This leads to a lot of opinions/changes lack of continuity. For instance it is blatantly obvious to anyone who watched last year that Lebron was only a MVP/star level player when we moved him to the 5/4 and the big 3 only looked tolerable when AD was at the 5. Yet, we went once again with the same strategy as last year just with younger Centers. Sure we may get better because the dudes we signed this year are younger and have more to offer, but our game plan is still from people that don't seem to be watching what's going on with AD/Lebron.
All that said, depsite the decline in level from AD/Lebron, I expect us in the playoffs this year. I think they will have that extra fuel that they lacked last year and eventually if it's not working with the big 3, Pelinka will cave in on the picks. Whether this potential 45-48 win season will be worth what we give up to cement that type of year, I don't know. I personally don't think we should have kept trying to win now after the WB trade disaster. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | Did you not watch Lebron play last year? Stat-wise, he was better than bubble Lebron. Even if Lebron was superman last year, he still wouldn't have been able to carry deadweights like Brick, Melo and Ariza to a championship.
Lebron is still ready to win another championship but the rest of the Lakers aren't due to the gross mis-management of our assets by our FO. If managed correctly, aka keeping the championship team intact, we might be looking at 2 or 3 championship by now. But I'll gladly and gracefully accept the one championship Lebron has blessed us with. |
1. You're talking about Lebron's counting numbers. His impact metrics didn't come close to '20. For example, his total RAPTOR went from +7.8 in '20 to +4.7 last year. +4.7 is good, but it's not the level for which he is known.
2. We would not be looking at 2-3 championships by now if the front office kept the team intact. Lebron and Davis would still get hurt. The '20 supporting cast wasn't winning anything without Lebron and Davis at close to full strength. |
They would have made the playoffs last season, at the very least. Lebron, Caruso, Kuzma, DG/DS, KCP, Javale is stout enough defensively to secure a 6-8 seed and AD was healthy right in time for the playoff push. More importantly, they would have had the assets and flexibility to improve the team. |
Making the playoffs/play-in is vastly different from winning two more championships. As we saw in '21, Lebron and Davis couldn't even stay healthy when we slipped into the playoffs. Caruso, Kuzma, and the gang weren't taking us to a title.
And that's the point. I never liked the moves that Pelinka was making. But did they cost us two more titles? No. If Lebron and Davis had been healthy and playing at the same level as they did in '20, we might have made a run in '21 and maybe even in '22. But they weren't healthy, and they weren't playing at the same level. Pelinka's moves (especially Westbrook) didn't help, but they weren't the root cause of the decline after '20.
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joeblow
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
AD and Lebron won a title together |
3 years ago. Lebron is 38 year old and Anthony is almost 30 years old. |
Westbrook is 34 next month and you wanted to trade Lebron/AD to build around Russ |
Besides, the championship didn't happen three years ago. The third game of the NBA Finals that the Lakers won was played two years ago today. |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | Did you not watch Lebron play last year? Stat-wise, he was better than bubble Lebron. Even if Lebron was superman last year, he still wouldn't have been able to carry deadweights like Brick, Melo and Ariza to a championship.
Lebron is still ready to win another championship but the rest of the Lakers aren't due to the gross mis-management of our assets by our FO. If managed correctly, aka keeping the championship team intact, we might be looking at 2 or 3 championship by now. But I'll gladly and gracefully accept the one championship Lebron has blessed us with. |
1. You're talking about Lebron's counting numbers. His impact metrics didn't come close to '20. For example, his total RAPTOR went from +7.8 in '20 to +4.7 last year. +4.7 is good, but it's not the level for which he is known.
2. We would not be looking at 2-3 championships by now if the front office kept the team intact. Lebron and Davis would still get hurt. The '20 supporting cast wasn't winning anything without Lebron and Davis at close to full strength. |
They would have made the playoffs last season, at the very least. Lebron, Caruso, Kuzma, DG/DS, KCP, Javale is stout enough defensively to secure a 6-8 seed and AD was healthy right in time for the playoff push. More importantly, they would have had the assets and flexibility to improve the team. |
Making the playoffs/play-in is vastly different from winning two more championships. As we saw in '21, Lebron and Davis couldn't even stay healthy when we slipped into the playoffs. Caruso, Kuzma, and the gang weren't taking us to a title.
And that's the point. I never liked the moves that Pelinka was making. But did they cost us two more titles? No. If Lebron and Davis had been healthy and playing at the same level as they did in '20, we might have made a run in '21 and maybe even in '22. But they weren't healthy, and they weren't playing at the same level. Pelinka's moves (especially Westbrook) didn't help, but they weren't the root cause of the decline after '20. |
Injuries are always the issue, and Father Time is undefeated. However, the team has squandered a ton of its assets, turning future picks and depth into Westbrook and a rotating door cast. So now they aren’t as good as they were, aren’t as deep, and don’t have the trade assets to improve now by much, and trading those assets would freeze them out of much ability to improve down the road.
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Still think we need to make moves. If we can get Turner/Buddy for less than 2 FRPs, you have to go with that.
I liked Jones/Bryant for min. deal signings, but Myles is so much better than them on both ends. And as you saw, we have no 3 point shooting (except AD ).
I liked the team's energy last night, but structurally, we still have issues. Not sure I like that Russ/Nunn backcourt. Too small and we will get killed on switches. This team is still a half baked piece of bread.
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Still think we need to make moves. If we can get Turner/Buddy for less than 2 FRPs, you have to go with that.
I liked Jones/Bryant for min. deal signings, but Myles is so much better than them on both ends. And as you saw, we have no 3 point shooting (except AD ).
I liked the team's energy last night, but structurally, we still have issues. Not sure I like that Russ/Nunn backcourt. Too small and we will get killed on switches. This team is still a half baked piece of bread. |
I am not sure Myles is a game changer. He is less healthy than Davis. He only played 42 and 47 games the last two seasons and 62 games a few years back. And, his huge 12 points, 6 rebounds and 2 blocks a game just doesn't impress me. Not worth FRPs, that is for sure. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Still think we need to make moves. If we can get Turner/Buddy for less than 2 FRPs, you have to go with that.
I liked Jones/Bryant for min. deal signings, but Myles is so much better than them on both ends. And as you saw, we have no 3 point shooting (except AD ).
I liked the team's energy last night, but structurally, we still have issues. Not sure I like that Russ/Nunn backcourt. Too small and we will get killed on switches. This team is still a half baked piece of bread. |
Agree...and I'll tell you this as well...yes we want Russ gone but only because he's a horrible fit with Bron...but as a player himself he's still a good player and could be a real good player on a different team...If he went to Indy he would be the second best player on that team...so screw Indy...the absolute most I would give them is the 1 FRP and that's it....In fact you can argue Russ straight up is enough for the position Indy is in...Turner is gone after this year and Hield still has another year left....they just have to take Russ, who would be their second best player and pay him for this year only....then they would have a ton of space for next year....If they want the 1 FRP fine...but that's all they get. From the small sample size I saw yesterday and what Ham said about Russ...Russ is all in with Ham's system. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:28 am Post subject: |
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I don't think we can rely on LBJ at all to be some sort of big wing perimeter defender at his age. Our really tiny backcourt is very concerning as that means LBJ will have to guard the premier big wings and I'm not sure he has the ability to do so.
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RashardA
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we can rely on LBJ at all to be some sort of big wing perimeter defender at his age. Our really tiny backcourt is very concerning as that means LBJ will have to guard the premier big wings and I'm not sure he has the ability to do so. |
He doesn't.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | Domantas. 18 points, 12 rebounds. Demanded a trade.
Myles. 12 points, 6 rebounds.
You guys wanted the wrong guy. |
I actually agree with you on this. If we were to give up 2 picks, a versatile big (basically a wing) like Sabonis is more valuable and worth it. He's an all-star caliber player and gives the Lakers a potent trio.
The thing is I doubt the Pacers ever would have dealth Sabonis for 2 FRPs and Westbrook (or some version of that deal). The Pacers dealt Sabonis away before and then considered Lakers offers for Turner/Hield. IE they are in a complete re-build, that's why they're looking at the Lakers. I don't think we ever had a chance at Sabonis but he is the sort of player I think giving up 2 picks is worth it for, because a) he's young enough to give you many years and b) I think he's versatile enough to move into multiple roles around AD/Lebron. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | Domantas. 18 points, 12 rebounds. Demanded a trade.
Myles. 12 points, 6 rebounds.
You guys wanted the wrong guy. |
I actually agree with you on this. If we were to give up 2 picks, a versatile big (basically a wing) like Sabonis is more valuable and worth it. He's an all-star caliber player and gives the Lakers a potent trio.
The thing is I doubt the Pacers ever would have dealth Sabonis for 2 FRPs and Westbrook (or some version of that deal). The Pacers dealt Sabonis away before and then considered Lakers offers for Turner/Hield. IE they are in a complete re-build, that's why they're looking at the Lakers. I don't think we ever had a chance at Sabonis but he is the sort of player I think giving up 2 picks is worth it for, because a) he's young enough to give you many years and b) I think he's versatile enough to move into multiple roles around AD/Lebron. |
Kings traded a talented Haliburton; the Lakers had Russ from 2020-21. No trade was even close based on the assets.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:47 am Post subject: |
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As currently constructed, still feel this a 8-10th seed type of team. We are tiny in the backcourt and that means Walker/Reaves are being pushed to defend out of position at the SF spots. We don't have any true answers to big wings like Kawhi/PG/Luka, etc. in the West either as you can't expect a 37-38 year old LBJ to do that.
Jones/Bryant at the min. were nice but I think they are pretty limited players too. Our shooting woes from 3 continue and that's going to be an issue as well.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| I still think Sac will regret that trade. Halliburton imo will have more impact over a 5-10 year period than a big like Sabonis. |
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cital
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | As currently constructed, still feel this a 8-10th seed type of team. We are tiny in the backcourt and that means Walker/Reaves are being pushed to defend out of position at the SF spots. We don't have any true answers to big wings like Kawhi/PG/Luka, etc. in the West either as you can't expect a 37-38 year old LBJ to do that.
Jones/Bryant at the min. were nice but I think they are pretty limited players too. Our shooting woes from 3 continue and that's going to be an issue as well. |
I agree 100%, and I would also add that there is no trade that is going to magically fix all that. This is why we should have just gone for the full rebuild. But Jeanie doesn't believe in that, and LeBron makes the team too much money no matter how the team does... |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| what happened to dwayne bacon? |
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