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levon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:53 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
Turner is making 20 million now. He's going to be making close to 30 per year next season. Incentive-based, sure. But he's not signing 4/84 unless it's some huge hometown discount. I'm very confident of that.


What team with pure cap space in 2023 is signing Turner to 30m? Projected cap space for teams:

1 HOU $59.3M
2 IND $49.8M
3 DET $48.0M
4 SAS $47.9M
5 UTA $42.6M
6 ORL $34.4M
7 LAL $31.9M
8 OKC $26.2M
9 CHA $19.9M

I don't see any of these teams forking up $30m. Ergo, my theory that Turner wants to be traded to the Lakers b/c he can hold them hostage, that may be the only team that coughs up north of $20m.

Where are you getting these figures? Spotrac has the Hornets' cap space for next season at a maximum of 44 million next year, for example. I could see multiple teams from this list signing Turner.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
Turner is making 20 million now. He's going to be making close to 30 per year next season. Incentive-based, sure. But he's not signing 4/84 unless it's some huge hometown discount. I'm very confident of that.


What team with pure cap space in 2023 is signing Turner to 30m? Projected cap space for teams:

1 HOU $59.3M
2 IND $49.8M
3 DET $48.0M
4 SAS $47.9M
5 UTA $42.6M
6 ORL $34.4M
7 LAL $31.9M
8 OKC $26.2M
9 CHA $19.9M

I don't see any of these teams forking up $30m. Ergo, my theory that Turner wants to be traded to the Lakers b/c he can hold them hostage, that may be the only team that coughs up north of $20m.

Where are you getting these figures? Spotrac has the Hornets' cap space for next season at a maximum of 44 million next year, for example. I could see multiple teams from this list signing Turner.


Went off of Keith Smith's numbers. I think he works for Spotrac lol.

I don't see any team on that list paying Myles $30m. I can see Houston going for maybe $20-22m, but nowhere near $30m.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
@Vas, do you happen to know the nuance with Bojan being able to traded? Wondering what is this issue about him signing an extension that is giving me errors on the nba trade machine website?


Didn’t sign for more than 120% of his previous salary ( < 23.5m) and essentially didn’t sign for a max extension amount (see Bron extension)…so as a result, no 6 month no-trade window applies. Dude can be traded right now and up till the trade deadline on Feb 9th.

He makes 20m next season (2023/24) and up to 19m in his final year (2024/25) of this extension, of which only 2m in guaranteed.


Awesome, my guy! Much appreciated.

I think Bojan and Isaiah Stewart (sorry Lebron) are the guys to go after.


Hey whenever I can, you know I got you homie. Btw…insiders throw out the Boj possibility as well.

Quote:
Laker Central @LakerCentral365
Zach Lowe and Dave McMenamin floated these names as possible trade targets for the Lakers for Nunn/Bev and a first (or multiple seconds).

Kyle Kuzma
PJ Washington
Bojan Bogdanovich

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gng930
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Re: Lonnie, Lakers could do non-Bird right extension for him at 120% of his current salary. So Lakers could theoretically offer him $7.77m next year. Would he take that? Not sure. But keeping Lonnie at the non-Bird extension seems more plausible than the Lakers standing pat this season and not trading for players who eat into 2023 cap space.

Say we do have 30-35m in cap space, then you punt on this season, and then say you have to devote 12m to Lonnie. Then you have 18-23m in cap space, which is maybe good enough for Kuz/Turner level players? But the cost would be punting this season.

What would you do?


I would trade for multiyear contracts or at least players we plan on retaining and operating as an over-the cap team. Use the NTMLE on Lonnie and retain Austin for early-birdish AAV. We should be able to stay reasonably under the apron or even under the tax threshold altogether.


This is my preference too. Having that NTMLE is huge as you go from the 4m-ish room exception to closer to 10.5-11m NTMLE.


Not just that but the BAE isn't that far off from the room exception. You go from one end-rotation player to one mid-rotation and another end-rotation player.
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levon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
Turner is making 20 million now. He's going to be making close to 30 per year next season. Incentive-based, sure. But he's not signing 4/84 unless it's some huge hometown discount. I'm very confident of that.


What team with pure cap space in 2023 is signing Turner to 30m? Projected cap space for teams:

1 HOU $59.3M
2 IND $49.8M
3 DET $48.0M
4 SAS $47.9M
5 UTA $42.6M
6 ORL $34.4M
7 LAL $31.9M
8 OKC $26.2M
9 CHA $19.9M

I don't see any of these teams forking up $30m. Ergo, my theory that Turner wants to be traded to the Lakers b/c he can hold them hostage, that may be the only team that coughs up north of $20m.

Where are you getting these figures? Spotrac has the Hornets' cap space for next season at a maximum of 44 million next year, for example. I could see multiple teams from this list signing Turner.


Went off of Keith Smith's numbers. I think he works for Spotrac lol.

I don't see any team on that list paying Myles $30m. I can see Houston going for maybe $20-22m, but nowhere near $30m.

Okay, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on both Turner's value to this team and his contract value to the rest of the league. Weird that you believe he'd be great here but wouldn't get a single dollar of a raise in his prime, but okay.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:01 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
Turner is making 20 million now. He's going to be making close to 30 per year next season. Incentive-based, sure. But he's not signing 4/84 unless it's some huge hometown discount. I'm very confident of that.


What team with pure cap space in 2023 is signing Turner to 30m? Projected cap space for teams:

1 HOU $59.3M
2 IND $49.8M
3 DET $48.0M
4 SAS $47.9M
5 UTA $42.6M
6 ORL $34.4M
7 LAL $31.9M
8 OKC $26.2M
9 CHA $19.9M

I don't see any of these teams forking up $30m. Ergo, my theory that Turner wants to be traded to the Lakers b/c he can hold them hostage, that may be the only team that coughs up north of $20m.

Where are you getting these figures? Spotrac has the Hornets' cap space for next season at a maximum of 44 million next year, for example. I could see multiple teams from this list signing Turner.


Went off of Keith Smith's numbers. I think he works for Spotrac lol.

I don't see any team on that list paying Myles $30m. I can see Houston going for maybe $20-22m, but nowhere near $30m.

Okay, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on both Turner's value to this team and his contract value to the rest of the league. Weird that you believe he'd be great here but wouldn't get a single dollar of a raise in his prime, but okay.


I think you're way overpricing him.

I think his FMV is closer to 20-22m, based on his injury history, and just the league going away from centers.

That's why I keep saying Myles wants to be a Laker b/c he knows he has maximum leverage on them if he's traded here. That doesn't mean I would pay him $30m, or that his demand for $30m is reasonable. As you saw with Dennis, Rob made an $84m offer and when Dennis thought he was worth more, that was that.

Andrew Wiggins inexplicably took a multi-year paycut with the Warriors this offseason. I don't expect Turner to make less than $18m, but I don't expect him to be making $30m either.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Re: Lonnie, Lakers could do non-Bird right extension for him at 120% of his current salary. So Lakers could theoretically offer him $7.77m next year. Would he take that? Not sure. But keeping Lonnie at the non-Bird extension seems more plausible than the Lakers standing pat this season and not trading for players who eat into 2023 cap space.

Say we do have 30-35m in cap space, then you punt on this season, and then say you have to devote 12m to Lonnie. Then you have 18-23m in cap space, which is maybe good enough for Kuz/Turner level players? But the cost would be punting this season.

What would you do?


I would trade for multiyear contracts or at least players we plan on retaining and operating as an over-the cap team. Use the NTMLE on Lonnie and retain Austin for early-birdish AAV. We should be able to stay reasonably under the apron or even under the tax threshold altogether.


This is my preference too. Having that NTMLE is huge as you go from the 4m-ish room exception to closer to 10.5-11m NTMLE.


Not just that but the BAE isn't that far off from the room exception. You go from one end-rotation player to one mid-rotation and another end-rotation player.


Sheesh. You are right.

And the luxury/repeater taxes are assessed at the end of the season. If really necessary, could make a trade down the road for salary relief with a team that has cap space if you are that desperate to dodge the repeater tax too.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/lakercentral365/status/1600219428326502401?s=46&t=LFS55LhIJmxV37YBFBzKCQ

Who would you guys prefer? Bojan might be the worst defender of the group but I think he really juices the offense. He's the only one with a proven track record as a shooter.
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levon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Wiggin's paycut wasn't inexplicable. He had a miserable time with the Wolves and won a title in Golden State where he feels valued. Turner would be entering a market where up to like 8 teams could use some talent and have the cap space, and where basically no other free agents of that caliber or better are on the market.
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levon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Lakeshow23_ wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakercentral365/status/1600219428326502401?s=46&t=LFS55LhIJmxV37YBFBzKCQ

Who would you guys prefer? Bojan might be the worst defender of the group but I think he really juices the offense. He's the only one with a proven track record as a shooter.

Kuzma over Bojan, 10 out of 10 times.

PJ Washington is interesting. What would it take to get him?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:15 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Lakeshow23_ wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakercentral365/status/1600219428326502401?s=46&t=LFS55LhIJmxV37YBFBzKCQ

Who would you guys prefer? Bojan might be the worst defender of the group but I think he really juices the offense. He's the only one with a proven track record as a shooter.

Kuzma over Bojan, 10 out of 10 times.

PJ Washington is interesting. What would it take to get him?


McDaniels provides a similar skillset but will probably be cheaper to retain this summer so I'm hoping that we wouldn't need much to pry PJ from Charlotte. It will take Nunn and a pick IMO, it's just a matter of where they settle on that pick in terms of round and protections.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:16 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
@Vas, do you happen to know the nuance with Bojan being able to traded? Wondering what is this issue about him signing an extension that is giving me errors on the nba trade machine website?


Didn’t sign for more than 120% of his previous salary ( < 23.5m) and essentially didn’t sign for a max extension amount (see Bron extension)…so as a result, no 6 month no-trade window applies. Dude can be traded right now and up till the trade deadline on Feb 9th.

He makes 20m next season (2023/24) and up to 19m in his final year (2024/25) of this extension, of which only 2m in guaranteed.


Awesome, my guy! Much appreciated.

I think Bojan and Isaiah Stewart (sorry Lebron) are the guys to go after.


Hey whenever I can, you know I got you homie. Btw…insiders throw out the Boj possibility as well.

Quote:
Laker Central @LakerCentral365
Zach Lowe and Dave McMenamin floated these names as possible trade targets for the Lakers for Nunn/Bev and a first (or multiple seconds).

Kyle Kuzma
PJ Washington
Bojan Bogdanovich


Kuzma is my favorite of this group. Already has chemistry with Bron and AD. He's an OK 3pt shooter (below average, though streaky and can get dangerously hot), but a good all-around scorer. He's improved as a playmaker since he left the Lakers. He's also a solid-to-good defensive player. Ultimately, the most important element is that Kuz solves the Lakers biggest weakness — size at the wing.

Kuzma would start at the 3, but he could play some 4 beside Bryant at the 5 and Brown coming off the bench to play the 3. The Lakers would instantly get much-needed size.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:18 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
Wiggin's paycut wasn't inexplicable. He had a miserable time with the Wolves and won a title in Golden State where he feels valued. Turner would be entering a market where up to like 8 teams could use some talent and have the cap space, and where basically no other free agents of that caliber or better are on the market.


So you don't think the Warriors would have paid him...close to what he was making this year ($31m) if he was to hit FA? With the Warriors being hopelessly over the cap and not being able to replace him? I agree Wiggins made that choice. But Turner has achieved less and he's going to get a massive boost from $18m to $30m? I don't see it at all.

I can see the teams with cap space being interested in him, but probably at the $20-22m range. Maybe an outlier is $24m or something like that. But $30m? Based on his injury history? Nah.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:18 pm    Post subject:

PJ shoots better from 3 and has much more versatility on D, some combo of PJ Tucker and what Markieff Morris was for us except he's much younger. I'm not convinced Kuzma isn't the same player he was for us all those years.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:19 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
@Vas, do you happen to know the nuance with Bojan being able to traded? Wondering what is this issue about him signing an extension that is giving me errors on the nba trade machine website?


Didn’t sign for more than 120% of his previous salary ( < 23.5m) and essentially didn’t sign for a max extension amount (see Bron extension)…so as a result, no 6 month no-trade window applies. Dude can be traded right now and up till the trade deadline on Feb 9th.

He makes 20m next season (2023/24) and up to 19m in his final year (2024/25) of this extension, of which only 2m in guaranteed.


Awesome, my guy! Much appreciated.

I think Bojan and Isaiah Stewart (sorry Lebron) are the guys to go after.


Hey whenever I can, you know I got you homie. Btw…insiders throw out the Boj possibility as well.

Quote:
Laker Central @LakerCentral365
Zach Lowe and Dave McMenamin floated these names as possible trade targets for the Lakers for Nunn/Bev and a first (or multiple seconds).

Kyle Kuzma
PJ Washington
Bojan Bogdanovich


Yea those names make sense.
3 teams that are already on the outside looking in on the playoffs.
If each cost a FRP, I'd have to settle on Bojan.

But I'm thinking Kuz isn't going to cost a first.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:26 pm    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
epic_ wrote:
@Vas, do you happen to know the nuance with Bojan being able to traded? Wondering what is this issue about him signing an extension that is giving me errors on the nba trade machine website?


Didn’t sign for more than 120% of his previous salary ( < 23.5m) and essentially didn’t sign for a max extension amount (see Bron extension)…so as a result, no 6 month no-trade window applies. Dude can be traded right now and up till the trade deadline on Feb 9th.

He makes 20m next season (2023/24) and up to 19m in his final year (2024/25) of this extension, of which only 2m in guaranteed.


Awesome, my guy! Much appreciated.

I think Bojan and Isaiah Stewart (sorry Lebron) are the guys to go after.


Hey whenever I can, you know I got you homie. Btw…insiders throw out the Boj possibility as well.

Quote:
Laker Central @LakerCentral365
Zach Lowe and Dave McMenamin floated these names as possible trade targets for the Lakers for Nunn/Bev and a first (or multiple seconds).

Kyle Kuzma
PJ Washington
Bojan Bogdanovich


Yea those names make sense.
3 teams that are already on the outside looking in on the playoffs.
If each cost a FRP, I'd have to settle on Bojan.

But I'm thinking Kuz isn't going to cost a first.


Kuz will cost a first since we only got PatBev and Nunn to offer
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levon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
levon wrote:
Wiggin's paycut wasn't inexplicable. He had a miserable time with the Wolves and won a title in Golden State where he feels valued. Turner would be entering a market where up to like 8 teams could use some talent and have the cap space, and where basically no other free agents of that caliber or better are on the market.


So you don't think the Warriors would have paid him...close to what he was making this year ($31m) if he was to hit FA? With the Warriors being hopelessly over the cap and not being able to replace him? I agree Wiggins made that choice. But Turner has achieved less and he's going to get a massive boost from $18m to $30m? I don't see it at all.

I can see the teams with cap space being interested in him, but probably at the $20-22m range. Maybe an outlier is $24m or something like that. But $30m? Based on his injury history? Nah.

He's switched agents, has been marketing himself through Woj, and is clearly intent on showing out without Sabonis and with Haliburton having the keys.

https://nbaanalysis.net/2022/10/03/nba-trade-rumors-indiana-pacers-myles-turner-salary-projections-news/
Quote:

Just how much money could Turner be looking at earning in free agency? According to a piece on The Athletic by Shams Charania, Sam Amick and Jovan Buha, Turner is in line for a nice chunk of change.

“Turner, meanwhile, is in the final season of a four-year, $80 million extension he signed in 2018. The talented center’s desire to reach unrestricted free agency in 2023, along with an expected price tag that could begin at $25 million per year, are known to be significant factors in the Lakers’ calculus.”


The Wiggins contract is actually a great template. I expect him to get a contract that starts at 25m first year and goes up every year for 4 years. Or 90/3.

We'll see who ends up being right.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:29 pm    Post subject:

Kuz (especially if it involves a FRP) is a very Rob-like move (Klutch or familiar face).
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:29 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gng930 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Re: Lonnie, Lakers could do non-Bird right extension for him at 120% of his current salary. So Lakers could theoretically offer him $7.77m next year. Would he take that? Not sure. But keeping Lonnie at the non-Bird extension seems more plausible than the Lakers standing pat this season and not trading for players who eat into 2023 cap space.

Say we do have 30-35m in cap space, then you punt on this season, and then say you have to devote 12m to Lonnie. Then you have 18-23m in cap space, which is maybe good enough for Kuz/Turner level players? But the cost would be punting this season.

What would you do?


I would trade for multiyear contracts or at least players we plan on retaining and operating as an over-the cap team. Use the NTMLE on Lonnie and retain Austin for early-birdish AAV. We should be able to stay reasonably under the apron or even under the tax threshold altogether.


This is my preference too. Having that NTMLE is huge as you go from the 4m-ish room exception to closer to 10.5-11m NTMLE.


Not just that but the BAE isn't that far off from the room exception. You go from one end-rotation player to one mid-rotation and another end-rotation player.


Sheesh. You are right.

And the luxury/repeater taxes are assessed at the end of the season. If really necessary, could make a trade down the road for salary relief with a team that has cap space if you are that desperate to dodge the repeater tax too.


I’m absolutely on the same page as well with y’all fam.

We can fiend a better quality team being cap strapped instead of cap struck with a potential 30mish to spend (ie more like cap stuck).

Based off a 136m cap next summer, here are some of the projections and keeping in mind the cap apron once we trigger the hard cap with the ntMLE &/or BAE.

Quote:
Maxed out 2023/24 Salary Cap projections (under current CBA)
Cap: 136m (fyi: currently projected @134m)
Tax: 165.3m
Apron: 173m
35% max: 47.6m
30% max: 40.8m
25% max: 34m
ntMLE: 11.6m
tMLE: 7.2m
rMLE: 5.9m
BAE: 4.5m
VetMin (2+ szn’d vet): 2.1m
IR/RookMin: 1

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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Out of the names we are hearing, I still think Bojan is more likely than Kuz/Turner/PJ for the Bev/Nunn/1st package.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Turner is not getting $30 million. He has been dangled for years with lukewarm interest.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:33 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Out of the names we are hearing, I still think Bojan is more likely than Kuz/Turner/PJ for the Bev/Nunn/1st package.


Agreed as far as likely....But if you offer that package you better get Noel back as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:36 pm    Post subject:

I just look back at how the Clippers got players like ROCO and Powell for an expired carton of milk. (expiring deal of Bledsoe, Justice Winslow, Keon Johnson, 2025 2nd from Detroit).

Meanwhile Lakers have to include Chick Hearn and the Lakers Girls plus 23 1st rounders to get any deal done.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:37 pm    Post subject:

@V+, that apron is actually much higher than I anticipated. True that would mean hitting the repeater tax but the hard cap mitigates that and limits it to less than half of what Jeannie is paying this year. For a contender, maybe Jeannie bites that bullet. By my math, they can commit to an additional 45+ million in salary for next year, use the ntMLE on Lonnie, retain Austin for his max, and also use the BAE and stay well under the apron. They can even get creative by doing a Russ S&T with the 2023 pick to get another rotation player.
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Last edited by gng930 on Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Out of the names we are hearing, I still think Bojan is more likely than Kuz/Turner/PJ for the Bev/Nunn/1st package.


I still think your Bojan and Bey suggestion is a great option to really solving our remaining issues. Beverly, Nunn, DJ, 2 2nds, 2023 swap (won't happen) for Bojan, Bey. Wee get skilled wing scoring and athletic wing for small guards who can't shoot at all rn. The fit of both around AD is tremendous.

AD, Bryant, Gabriel
Bojan, Brown Jr, JTA
LeBron, Bey
Walker, Russ, Max
Reaves, Dennis

Wait for buyout market.
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