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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | Okay, and he's shooting 39% from the field, rounding up. If it weren't for his 90% from the line, he'd have an abysmal TS%. He's an excellent assist/TO guy and gets steals, but that's pretty much it for the rest of his value. He can't finish at the rim for anything. He doesn't rebound. He's 6 1 and will be target number one in every playoff series.
To suggest he's worth more than 2 firsts as an expiring is one of those Zach Lowe exuberant-overrating-aneurysm-on-air takes that he apologizes for in subsequent podcasts.
And FWIW, I get the sense most Raptors fans are sick of him at this point, and not just for his on-court play. |
FVV's career percentage is .402. He was an all-star last year at .403. He's having an off year, but he's still one of the better players in the league. Oh, and Donovan Mitchell and Chris Paul are about the same height.
As for being worth more than two firsts, I didn't say that. I mean that our two FRPs aren't enough to get there. Our FRPs are 4 and 6 years away, and we don't have any decent players to attach them to. We might construct some combination of Beverley and whoever to get us there. Other teams can send the Raptors a real player or two. We can't compete with that.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | | would Rob break out the 4/$84M again? hoping Dennis would sign for LESS than that, as he's possibly humbled. |
Just remember that we don't have his Bird rights. We'd need cap space or one of the exceptions to offer significantly more than the minimum.
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | levon wrote: | Okay, and he's shooting 39% from the field, rounding up. If it weren't for his 90% from the line, he'd have an abysmal TS%. He's an excellent assist/TO guy and gets steals, but that's pretty much it for the rest of his value. He can't finish at the rim for anything. He doesn't rebound. He's 6 1 and will be target number one in every playoff series.
To suggest he's worth more than 2 firsts as an expiring is one of those Zach Lowe exuberant-overrating-aneurysm-on-air takes that he apologizes for in subsequent podcasts.
And FWIW, I get the sense most Raptors fans are sick of him at this point, and not just for his on-court play. |
FVV's career percentage is .402. He was an all-star last year at .403. He's having an off year, but he's still one of the better players in the league. Oh, and Donovan Mitchell and Chris Paul are about the same height.
As for being worth more than two firsts, I didn't say that. I mean that our two FRPs aren't enough to get there. Our FRPs are 4 and 6 years away, and we don't have any decent players to attach them to. We might construct some combination of Beverley and whoever to get us there. Other teams can send the Raptors a real player or two. We can't compete with that. |
And the year before that, his fg% was the same as this year. DAngelo Russell was an allstar too at one point.
Which team exactly is sending Toronto a real non-expiring player or two for an expiring FVV in a package that would be better than unprotected picks after LeBron's retired? They're going to get like one of the Clippers' guys making 15m and filler, maybe. Players that you wouldn't be getting good firsts for if you were to trade them otherwise.
I think you're going to be surprised. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
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LakerFan1987
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | When will the Bulls ACknowledge they are sellers rather than buyers?
| Quote: | The vultures are circling. Multiple teams have inquired about Alex Caruso, per sources. The Knicks have scouted Caruso of late and own first-round picks that could be dangled with a contract like Obi Toppin if the Bulls show any inclination of trading their defensive ace. The Golden State Warriors also are cited by league sources as a potential suitor.
As painful as it could be, and as much of a longshot as I think it is, trading DeRozan might be the most prudent move out of mediocrity. As has been written in this space before, DeRozan is extension eligible this offseason. That doesn't mean the Bulls have to extend him. But trading him to a team intent on doing so would take that decision off the Bulls' hands and net the largest return.
The player to watch is Vucevic. While trading him would essentially admit a mistake given the price tag to acquire him, losing him for nothing in unrestricted free agency this offseason would be worse. It’s management’s job to balance short- and long-term planning, and certainly having a read on Vucevic’s offseason intentions has to be a checked box at this point. – via NBC Sports
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-mailbag-will-management-trade-alex-caruso-or-any-big-3
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Lavine for Russ + 2 1st rd picks (unprotected)
OR
Derozan + AC for Russ + unprotected 1st rd pick |
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farzadkavari
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think most likely we may see just a small move.
Golf cart trade sized trade would be something like Damion Jones salary dump.
A Honda Civic trade would be Lonnie/Jones for something like Terrance Ross.
Mid-size Toyota Camry would be Bev/Lonnie type of deals with a protected 1st. Bojan/GTJ/Myles likely targets, but that protection limits that. And not sure how I'd feel using even a protected 1st for something like Burks/Noel instead, or Bamba/Harris (both iteration have team options so that gives max flexibility to Lakers).
SUV trade would be a Russ oriented trade with 1 or 2 picks. Lots of possibilities.
My guess is more likely a Damion Jones salary dump.
I think Ham irrationally loves Bev and Russ, so maybe next is just a Lonnie/Jones trade?
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
I mean are they bringing in Russ the player, or the contract? It's one thing to have a player they would like to trade and keep long term, it's another where Russ may ask to be bought out. They're eating that contract and not having production from the trade player(s).
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
I mean are they bringing in Russ the player, or the contract? It's one thing to have a player they would like to trade and keep long term, it's another where Russ may ask to be bought out. They're eating that contract and not having production from the trade player(s). |
Why do they need the production if they're sellers? If they're trying to make a playoff push, it obviously doesn't make sense to trade for Westbrook and distant picks. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
I mean are they bringing in Russ the player, or the contract? It's one thing to have a player they would like to trade and keep long term, it's another where Russ may ask to be bought out. They're eating that contract and not having production from the trade player(s). |
Why do they need the production if they're sellers? If they're trying to make a playoff push, it obviously doesn't make sense to trade for Westbrook and distant picks. |
Because other teams may offer a young productive future piece and picks. DROZ is still a very good player so just getting 2 picks that may or may not hit b/c they're so far away, but no young assets in return may not be so great. Maybe they'd want Austin too, and/or Max as well.
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Megaton
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
I mean are they bringing in Russ the player, or the contract? It's one thing to have a player they would like to trade and keep long term, it's another where Russ may ask to be bought out. They're eating that contract and not having production from the trade player(s). |
No one is gonna buy Brick out for $47 million.
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | levon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | levon wrote: | I think I'm warming up to a Derozan + Vucevic for Russ trade. We need a viable backup big in the playoff-like games. I don't know what Vuc is going to command going forward though.
I like DeRozan on this team at the 3. |
Bulls just said they want TWO 1st round picks for Caruso and u want them to take on russ for vuc and derozan?? Lmao |
Yeah. The market prices will go down, but not sure they give up both for just 2 FRPs. And they'd have to eat Russ's deal too. |
My sense is they don't care much about Vucevic the player as much as saving face for trading for him, so that might be a motivator. I think they're thinking about trading DeRozan. They have no reason to trade Caruso.
I think it would require two firsts. I'm still on the fence of doing that if I'm the Lakers, regardless of what Chicago wants.
And I don't know what eating a contract means. They'd pay a player to take them nowhere, same place they're going now, but for added draft comp. |
I mean are they bringing in Russ the player, or the contract? It's one thing to have a player they would like to trade and keep long term, it's another where Russ may ask to be bought out. They're eating that contract and not having production from the trade player(s). |
No one is gonna buy Brick out for $47 million. |
It's not 47m right now. We're more than halfway through the season.
If the Lakers were smart, they have up 6m plus cash they can offer. If you offered say $4m cash, and his salary is still about $20-21m left, then you can probably make the receiving team only pay $16-17m minus say $2m as part of a buyout. So in sum, it would be basically paying Russ $15m in a buyout.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
From your lips to God's ears.
Rui's 18m cap hold could quickly go down if we say offer him a 3 year $45m deal or something like that. But yeah, the 2023 plan was IMO all about going after Kyrie, and with Rui's cap hold, doubt that is happening at all (and I thought he would eventually re-sign with the Nets on a 2-3 year incentive laden deal that would pay much more than our 33m in cap space).
Doing a Bev only trade doesn't move the needle enough as we need more depth pieces.
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2019
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think most likely we may see just a small move.
Golf cart trade sized trade would be something like Damion Jones salary dump.
A Honda Civic trade would be Lonnie/Jones for something like Terrance Ross.
Mid-size Toyota Camry would be Bev/Lonnie type of deals with a protected 1st. Bojan/GTJ/Myles likely targets, but that protection limits that. And not sure how I'd feel using even a protected 1st for something like Burks/Noel instead, or Bamba/Harris (both iteration have team options so that gives max flexibility to Lakers).
SUV trade would be a Russ oriented trade with 1 or 2 picks. Lots of possibilities.
My guess is more likely a Damion Jones salary dump.
I think Ham irrationally loves Bev and Russ, so maybe next is just a Lonnie/Jones trade? |
Unless Rob wants to bring back Russ and/or Beverly and Lonnie by eating into cap space, he should be looking at having a complete garage - SUV and mid sized because if not, in a couple months we may just have a garage filled with go karts. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
That's interesting. I had the opposite feeling.
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levon
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
That's interesting. I had the opposite feeling. |
The alternative is trying really hard to meet GTJ or Turner's number in the offseason or something (which I think we'll come short of). But does that make next year's Lakers a contender? Probably not. In that case it's probably Rui + the next mMLE guy + 1sts being dangled for an upgrade next trade deadline. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I’m gonna wait to see how the team does on this road trip before thinking about a major shake up |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
That's interesting. I had the opposite feeling. |
Doing the Rui trade and keeping Westbrook just doesn’t make sense for a team that’s looking beyond this season (and to be fair, maybe they aren’t). Their ability to add talent with sub-max cap space in the summer was always dubious and now they have a good chunk less than that. Their chance to add talent is now with Westbrook’s salary. If not, they’ve picked the worst option available.
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Polarbear
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
Could just be an effort to balance the roster out |
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2019
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | levon wrote: | | I think we have to trade Russ before the deadline if we want to optimally operate as an over-the-cap team. Otherwise next year's team is the same or worse than this year's, with no way to maneuver besides trading depth and picks again for another "star". Not to mention that Russ is a liability in any playoff-like game. |
The Rui trade tipped the hand. Feels like Russ is on the move. If not, I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. |
That's interesting. I had the opposite feeling. |
The alternative is trying really hard to meet GTJ or Turner's number in the offseason or something (which I think we'll come short of). But does that make next year's Lakers a contender? Probably not. In that case it's probably Rui + the next mMLE guy + 1sts being dangled for an upgrade next trade deadline. |
What if you could get both Turner and Trent Jr in separate deals? Are we a contender then... I say if healthy, absolutely.
Would Jeanie open her pockets to re-sign them and bring back Austin and hopefully Dennis and Bryant via BAE/MLE split? |
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