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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Nets need to accept the fact that they aren't going to get a record haul for Durant like some have predicted. |
If they can’t get what they want for him at least they still have him under contract for 4 years.
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7937
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Why is Woj and ESPN sitting this story out?
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:34 am Post subject: |
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It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is.
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: |
Kevin Durant wouldn't be treated like an old washed up Jason Williams. The owners most likely would vote to reinstate him. They wouldn't do the Nets owner dirty. You can dream I guess and keep talking about some that is never going to happen |
First, I don't think there is a chance Durant will put himself on the voluntary retirement list. Sure, it's possible. But "it's possible" in the same sense that "it's possible" some free agent superstar in his prime is going to sign here for the veteran's minimum.
But, for the fun of it, let's say Durant actually did this. And then he asked to be reinstated before the year is up. I don't think there's a chance that all 30 owners would agree to let him back before the full year was up. At least one or two would want to punish him or wouldn't want improve one of the teams they are competing against.
But, anyways, like I said this is just a fun theoretical exercise. I don't see it really matters in terms of how this situation will actually play out in real life. |
For whatever it's worth, I took a quick look at the by-laws and related documents. Here is how I think it works:
1. If a player retires while under contract, the team does not need to do anything at all. The contract remains in place.
2. If both the player and the team agree, the player can file with the league to be placed on the Voluntary Retired List. This terminates the contract. The player cannot return to the league for one year.
3. If the player is placed on the Voluntary Retired List, and then wants to return, he does not become a free agent unless his old team does not want to retain him. If the old team lets him go, then he goes through the waiver procedure. I'm not sure what would happen if someone claimed him through the waiver procedure (i.e., whether the old contract would somehow be revived or whether the new team would need to cut a new deal).
So putting this all together, if Durant retired, he would kiss off $44M for the coming season and then hope that the Nets agree to put him on the Voluntary Retired List and then let him go through the waiver procedure, and that some team would then have enough cap space to give him a huge contract (at age 35). Even if that worked, he could end up losing $75-100M.
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Balto
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Joined: 25 Jun 2019
Posts: 603
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11846
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Nets need to accept the fact that they aren't going to get a record haul for Durant like some have predicted. |
If they can’t get what they want for him at least they still have him under contract for 4 years. |
You mean a cancer for 4 years? Jimmy Butler has been sensational in Miami because he's happy. When he was with Minnesota and unhappy, he was one of the most toxic players in the league. I don't think the Nets would ever want a similar situation. It's why I think KD most likely would be traded but looks like Marks is probably going to hold out possibly until the regular season starts torturing Laker fans in the process. |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12194
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
and how are we going to afford Kyrie, Simmons, Lebron and Davis?
Lakers have no way of getting Simmons. He is still owed 3 years and $144 million. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | LBJ23 wrote: |
Kevin Durant wouldn't be treated like an old washed up Jason Williams. The owners most likely would vote to reinstate him. They wouldn't do the Nets owner dirty. You can dream I guess and keep talking about some that is never going to happen |
First, I don't think there is a chance Durant will put himself on the voluntary retirement list. Sure, it's possible. But "it's possible" in the same sense that "it's possible" some free agent superstar in his prime is going to sign here for the veteran's minimum.
But, for the fun of it, let's say Durant actually did this. And then he asked to be reinstated before the year is up. I don't think there's a chance that all 30 owners would agree to let him back before the full year was up. At least one or two would want to punish him or wouldn't want improve one of the teams they are competing against.
But, anyways, like I said this is just a fun theoretical exercise. I don't see it really matters in terms of how this situation will actually play out in real life. |
For whatever it's worth, I took a quick look at the by-laws and related documents. Here is how I think it works:
1. If a player retires while under contract, the team does not need to do anything at all. The contract remains in place.
2. If both the player and the team agree, the player can file with the league to be placed on the Voluntary Retired List. This terminates the contract. The player cannot return to the league for one year.
3. If the player is placed on the Voluntary Retired List, and then wants to return, he does not become a free agent unless his old team does not want to retain him. If the old team lets him go, then he goes through the waiver procedure. I'm not sure what would happen if someone claimed him through the waiver procedure (i.e., whether the old contract would somehow be revived or whether the new team would need to cut a new deal).
So putting this all together, if Durant retired, he would kiss off $44M for the coming season and then hope that the Nets agree to put him on the Voluntary Retired List and then let him go through the waiver procedure, and that some team would then have enough cap space to give him a huge contract (at age 35). Even if that worked, he could end up losing $75-100M. |
Thanks for putting this together. It wasn't clear to me if Durant would actually become a free agent if he sat out a year. I only read Larry Coon's CBA document and it didn't spell out this scenario clearly. |
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Rubin
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 632
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Like how Dr. Buss honored Kobe’s trade request? Oh, wait…. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
and how are we going to afford Kyrie, Simmons, Lebron and Davis?
Lakers have no way of getting Simmons. He is still owed 3 years and $144 million. |
mathematically I think WB+THT+Nunn gets you there now or if not enough then Dec 15th can add LW4 but it's cap doable |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
and how are we going to afford Kyrie, Simmons, Lebron and Davis?
Lakers have no way of getting Simmons. He is still owed 3 years and $144 million. |
mathematically I think WB+THT+Nunn gets you there now or if not enough then Dec 15th can add LW4 but it's cap doable |
Making the numbers work is easy. The problem is the Lakers couldn't give the Nets near enough value to get both Irving and Simmons while still retaining LeBron and Davis. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | governator wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
and how are we going to afford Kyrie, Simmons, Lebron and Davis?
Lakers have no way of getting Simmons. He is still owed 3 years and $144 million. |
mathematically I think WB+THT+Nunn gets you there now or if not enough then Dec 15th can add LW4 but it's cap doable |
Making the numbers work is easy. The problem is the Lakers couldn't give the Nets near enough value to get both Irving and Simmons while still retaining LeBron and Davis. |
yeah, that'll have to be with both FRPs, pick swap, SRPs, Max and Reaves... and like you said, prob still not enough |
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Texas_Pete
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12825
Location: Somewhere watching a Laker game
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kevin Durant isn’t the only member of the Nets who is unhappy with leadership. You can add Kyrie Irving to the mix. |
| Quote: | | Well, Irving also “hates” Nash and Marks, a source told Mark W. Sanchez and Josh Kosman of the New York Post. “He feels that Nash is terrible and Marks is bad.” |
LINK |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Then the Lakers should have traded Kobe?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Balto wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Balto wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: |
The nets don’t even have picks to attach to move Ben out |
The Nets have to include draft picks to trade Ben Simmons? |
HaHa. Exactly what I was thinking. I’m sure lots of teams would give up multiple picks for Simmons. |
Maybe poorly run teams. Simmons is a depressed asset, a pennies on the dollar type of player. |
I just don't see it. If he was looked at as a negative assist I'm sure Lebron would swoop him up ASAP. Getting Kyrie and Simmons would just be insane!
Kyrie
Simmons
Lebron
AD
Game Over |
It would also be fictional since it would take AD or Lebron to get both.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73071
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Rubin wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Like how Dr. Buss honored Kobe’s trade request? Oh, wait…. |
If they can work it out great but comparing Tsai to Buss is hilarious.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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Reilec142002
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 1578
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Then the Lakers should have traded Kobe? |
Comparing those situations after the meeting KD just had is pretty laughable. |
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hydrohead
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Posts: 4112
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:18 am Post subject: |
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No way Pelinka pivots away from being laser focused on Kyrie. That is the big move, ideally via trade.
I’m sure he will love to deal THT+SRP+Salary for a shooter with a year left in his deal.
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Reilec142002
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Posts: 1578
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| hydrohead wrote: | No way Pelinka pivots away from being laser focused on Kyrie. That is the big move, ideally via trade.
I’m sure he will love to deal THT+SRP+Salary for a shooter with a year left in his deal. |
Assuming the Nets ever actually decide to do anything. |
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Rubin
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Posts: 632
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Rubin wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Like how Dr. Buss honored Kobe’s trade request? Oh, wait…. |
If they can work it out great but comparing Tsai to Buss is hilarious. |
My post didn’t compare owners at all. It was responding directly to your assertion that a good organization will honor players’ wishes no matter how painful. That is obviously untrue. |
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hydrohead
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Posts: 4112
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Reilec142002 wrote: | | hydrohead wrote: | No way Pelinka pivots away from being laser focused on Kyrie. That is the big move, ideally via trade.
I’m sure he will love to deal THT+SRP+Salary for a shooter with a year left in his deal. |
Assuming the Nets ever actually decide to do anything. |
He’ll wait, as I assumed at the initial Kyire buzz in late June, the whole season. And if not this season, see sig. Rob has positioned the team for cap space in 23. IMO, no way he moves off that.
Not saying that’s the right move. I’ve even been tempted by the other deals, but it’s always been about Kyrie.
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43990
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Nets owner tweets support of Kyrie Irving, tweets support of Sean Marks.
Kevin Durant is the franchise player, the reason they are title contenders.
Not Sean Marks. Not Kyrie Irving.
What a mess. |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39537
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
How about 3 players that don't want to be there. lol
And 2 out of the 3 wouldn't mind being in LA |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Reilec142002 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | It's not wise to keep a player that doesn't want to be there. A good organization will honor the wishes of a player regardless of how painful it is. |
Then the Lakers should have traded Kobe? |
Comparing those situations after the meeting KD just had is pretty laughable. |
No, they are very similar. Only evidently KD didn’t ask to be traded to Mars.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Last edited by venturalakersfan on Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Imagine if Lebron demanded a trade or fire Rob Pelinka. We would all support firing Rob Pelinka. Hell, Rob would probably tender his resignation. Who the hell is Sean Marks? |
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