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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26826
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 Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Defensively skilled 3 point shooting guard = Max Christie |
Who’s better currently, Max or Cam? |
Max. And you'd have seen more of it if Ham wasn't pissed that Cam wasn't the one that fit best in that situation
| Quote: | @Trevor_Lane
Lakers' most-used lineups & Net Rtg:
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
Maybe getting overlooked in this: The Lakers' 5th-most used lineup for the season (AD-LBJ-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo) features a guy who played his first game as a Laker on Feb 13th. Crazy.
With Max Christie, I tried to cut through the noise of garbage time via Cleaning The Glass
Max on the floor with regular rotation players (LeBron, AD, DLo, AR, Prince, Rui, SD, Gabe, Wood, Vando, Hayes) = +4.7.
That same group is +3.4 with Max off the floor
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1786145667334746155 |
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
Let that seep in... and the fact that Ham intentionally kept Christie out because he wanted Reddish to be the one that made the lineup work, but it was Christie instead. Then think about the fact that the analytics told him what the best lineups were and he never did it because Max wasn't who he personally chose and had favoritism towards.
We can only imagine what a AD-LBJ-Rui-Max-DLo lineup could have accomplished this season.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Fri May 03, 2024 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39706
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Defensively skilled 3 point shooting guard = Max Christie |
Who’s better currently, Max or Cam? |
Max. And you'd have seen more of it if Ham wasn't pissed that Cam wasn't the one that fit best in that situation
| Quote: | @Trevor_Lane
Lakers' most-used lineups & Net Rtg:
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
Maybe getting overlooked in this: The Lakers' 5th-most used lineup for the season (AD-LBJ-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo) features a guy who played his first game as a Laker on Feb 13th. Crazy.
With Max Christie, I tried to cut through the noise of garbage time via Cleaning The Glass
Max on the floor with regular rotation players (LeBron, AD, DLo, AR, Prince, Rui, SD, Gabe, Wood, Vando, Hayes) = +4.7.
That same group is +3.4 with Max off the floor
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1786145667334746155 |
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
Let that seep in... and the fact that Ham intentionally kept Christie out because he wanted Reddish to be the one that made the lineup work, but it was Christie instead. Then think about the fact that the analytics told him what the best lineups were and he never did it because Max wasn't who he personally chose and had favoritism towards. |
Post the minutes played and who they played to get a better idea of what those numbers mean. |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10850
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Defensively skilled 3 point shooting guard = Max Christie |
Who’s better currently, Max or Cam? |
Max. And you'd have seen more of it if Ham wasn't pissed that Cam wasn't the one that fit best in that situation
| Quote: | @Trevor_Lane
Lakers' most-used lineups & Net Rtg:
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
Maybe getting overlooked in this: The Lakers' 5th-most used lineup for the season (AD-LBJ-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo) features a guy who played his first game as a Laker on Feb 13th. Crazy.
With Max Christie, I tried to cut through the noise of garbage time via Cleaning The Glass
Max on the floor with regular rotation players (LeBron, AD, DLo, AR, Prince, Rui, SD, Gabe, Wood, Vando, Hayes) = +4.7.
That same group is +3.4 with Max off the floor
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1786145667334746155 |
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
Let that seep in... and the fact that Ham intentionally kept Christie out because he wanted Reddish to be the one that made the lineup work, but it was Christie instead. Then think about the fact that the analytics told him what the best lineups were and he never did it because Max wasn't who he personally chose and had favoritism towards. |
Post the minutes played and who they played to get a better idea of what those numbers mean. |
That lineup played 79 minutes and 10 games. Not insignificant, but also not big enough to properly compare the effect size of 9.7 to the starting lineup.
In aggregate, the lineup data tells us we can't play Austin and DLo with the 3 being non-physical. That was the painful lesson it took Ham 40+ games to learn.
If Vando and Gabe were healthy, we could've staggered the two guards more and built more effective lineups. Reddish should have never been signed. |
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RusselDoeee01
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 1128
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Realistically our best option is to keep Dlo, sign ANY big reallly and then run it back |
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Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4594
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | defense wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Defensively skilled 3 point shooting guard = Max Christie |
Who’s better currently, Max or Cam? |
Max. And you'd have seen more of it if Ham wasn't pissed that Cam wasn't the one that fit best in that situation
| Quote: | @Trevor_Lane
Lakers' most-used lineups & Net Rtg:
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
Maybe getting overlooked in this: The Lakers' 5th-most used lineup for the season (AD-LBJ-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo) features a guy who played his first game as a Laker on Feb 13th. Crazy.
With Max Christie, I tried to cut through the noise of garbage time via Cleaning The Glass
Max on the floor with regular rotation players (LeBron, AD, DLo, AR, Prince, Rui, SD, Gabe, Wood, Vando, Hayes) = +4.7.
That same group is +3.4 with Max off the floor
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1786145667334746155 |
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
Let that seep in... and the fact that Ham intentionally kept Christie out because he wanted Reddish to be the one that made the lineup work, but it was Christie instead. Then think about the fact that the analytics told him what the best lineups were and he never did it because Max wasn't who he personally chose and had favoritism towards. |
Post the minutes played and who they played to get a better idea of what those numbers mean. |
That lineup played 79 minutes and 10 games. Not insignificant, but also not big enough to properly compare the effect size of 9.7 to the starting lineup.
In aggregate, the lineup data tells us we can't play Austin and DLo with the 3 being non-physical. That was the painful lesson it took Ham 40+ games to learn.
If Vando and Gabe were healthy, we could've staggered the two guards more and built more effective lineups. Reddish should have never been signed. |
Can’t ignore the Dlo/Dinwiddie line up that is missing here regardless of how infrequently it may have been used because it is more than 3x better +/- than any other line up. The pairing of Dlo/Dinwiddie is by far the best line up.
MaxC line up is good too tho and this thread is what it’s about. MaxC had been part of the team such that if it others weren’t significantly better then MaxC should have been used instead of a new comer like Cam. The misuse of the roster imo is one of the major reasons Ham has to be relieved of his duties as coach. With the shi++ing the bed coment and lack of tact in addressing AD’s concern about the team not knowing what to do on both ends I wouldn’t be surprised if Ham’s career as an NBA head coach has been jeopardized anywhere anytime in the future.
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25246
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen?
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25246
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | governator wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Defensively skilled 3 point shooting guard = Max Christie |
Who’s better currently, Max or Cam? |
Max. And you'd have seen more of it if Ham wasn't pissed that Cam wasn't the one that fit best in that situation
| Quote: | @Trevor_Lane
Lakers' most-used lineups & Net Rtg:
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
Maybe getting overlooked in this: The Lakers' 5th-most used lineup for the season (AD-LBJ-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo) features a guy who played his first game as a Laker on Feb 13th. Crazy.
With Max Christie, I tried to cut through the noise of garbage time via Cleaning The Glass
Max on the floor with regular rotation players (LeBron, AD, DLo, AR, Prince, Rui, SD, Gabe, Wood, Vando, Hayes) = +4.7.
That same group is +3.4 with Max off the floor
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1786145667334746155 |
AD-LBJ-Prince-Max-DLo: +9.7
AD-LBJ-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR: +6.2
AD-LBJ-Rui-AR-DLo: +5.5
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-DLo: +.3
AD-LBJ-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Prince-AR-DLo: -2.4
AD-Rui-Dinwiddie-AR-DLo: -4.6
AD-LBJ-Prince-Reddish-AR: -12.5
Let that seep in... and the fact that Ham intentionally kept Christie out because he wanted Reddish to be the one that made the lineup work, but it was Christie instead. Then think about the fact that the analytics told him what the best lineups were and he never did it because Max wasn't who he personally chose and had favoritism towards.
We can only imagine what a AD-LBJ-Rui-Max-DLo lineup could have accomplished this season. |
Wish we’d seen Max instead of Dinwiddie in the playoff
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17741
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:39 am Post subject: |
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My off season plan
Resign DLO-3y/70M-Deal starting around 22M
Resign Max Christie 2y7M
Resign TP ~1y5M
Hope C.Wood opt in
Realistic offseason targets-Kris Dunn and Goga along with one of Josh Richardson or Melton
Trade
Shop Rui+Gabe+JHS+17 for BPA. Can take back around 36-38M.
Players in that range-Donovan Mitchell/Jermai Grant/Ingram/Marcus Smart/D.Murray
I would like to see Reaves moved into a 6th man role if we are able to pick up a 2way 2 guard. Or if its Max.
AD/Goga
LeBron/Wood
J.Grant/Vando
Kris Dunn or Max/Prince
DLo/Reaves
Hopefully we have a coach that can optimze Christian Wood and he comes back motivated in a contract year.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17741
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
No. Those type of moves should only be for someone who would make us favorites. Not many of those types. Mitchell maybe. Trae Young no.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Bron2AD
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9498
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
No. Those type of moves should only be for someone who would make us favorites. Not many of those types. Mitchell maybe. Trae Young no. |
also for a player that has couple of years left on his deal. Lauri i think is an expirer who will command near max in summer |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29191
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17741
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Bron2AD wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
No. Those type of moves should only be for someone who would make us favorites. Not many of those types. Mitchell maybe. Trae Young no. |
also for a player that has couple of years left on his deal. Lauri i think is an expirer who will command near max in summer |
Lauri would probably make our defense worse. LeBron days of being a 3 full time are long gone.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Reds622
Star Player
Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Woj. keeps implying the Lakers are going to make a major move and they have the assets to do it.
Usually it’s Woj. in the media consistently trying to tear down the Lakers ability to get better.
So the shift is interesting. |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17741
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:29 am Post subject: |
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If we go all in on Mitchell (I doubt we have enough but he could have some leverage if he want out basically being on an exp k)
2024 1st (17)
2029 1st
Right to swap in 2023 1st
2031 1st
Rui+Vincent+JHS
I would like our team with the right VM signings/energy guys (Dunn/Goga)
AD/Goga/Theis
LeBron/Wood
Vando/TP/Lewis
Mitchell/Christie
DLo/Reaves/Dunn
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Lakersfan1211
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2021
Posts: 6100
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Lakersfan1211
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2021
Posts: 6100
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Tobias Harris is expected to relocate from Philadelphia, per @TimBontemps
“League sources expect Harris, who has been at the center of fan frustrations in Philadelphia, to be elsewhere next season.” |
(Via http://es.pn/44ua7Di) |
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logical24
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2019
Posts: 3198
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldnt mind a shot at Butler. What would it take to get him? |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25246
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| logical24 wrote: | | I wouldnt mind a shot at Butler. What would it take to get him? |
Salary? Rui+AR+Gabe+Vando+a min, about $49m
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17741
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | logical24 wrote: | | I wouldnt mind a shot at Butler. What would it take to get him? |
Salary? Rui+AR+Gabe+Vando+a min, about $49m |
He will be 35 by the time the season starts.
If we are going all in on a 3rd star (again) I hope it's for one in their 20's.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46946
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tobias Harris is Pistons bound, he’s the only some what big name that the Pistons can realistically sign with there cap space |
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Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1478
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ham was definitely a bad coach and the Lakers are better with even an average head coach in place of him, but I hated how fans placed the blame solely on him for their mediocrity.
The roster isn't great. It needs 1 significant move AND some smaller moves.
The players themselves are almost ALWAYS the biggest problem.
Eric Spoelstra wouldn't lead this team to a ring as is. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23673
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
Hell no |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25246
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Bron2AD wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
No. Those type of moves should only be for someone who would make us favorites. Not many of those types. Mitchell maybe. Trae Young no. |
also for a player that has couple of years left on his deal. Lauri i think is an expirer who will command near max in summer |
If we get to keep AR and get Markannen for Rui and picks/swaps only, this can be our starting unit (assuming DLo leaves)
Bron-AR-Vando-Markannen-AD (we shouldn’t be outrebounded ever)
Gabe-Max-Cam-Wood-Hayes
Bronny-JHS-Max L-Castleton
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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JustaObserver
Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2017
Posts: 3328
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Bron2AD wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
No. Those type of moves should only be for someone who would make us favorites. Not many of those types. Mitchell maybe. Trae Young no. |
also for a player that has couple of years left on his deal. Lauri i think is an expirer who will command near max in summer |
If we get to keep AR and get Markannen for Rui and picks/swaps only, this can be our starting unit (assuming DLo leaves)
Bron-AR-Vando-Markannen-AD (we shouldn’t be outrebounded ever)
Gabe-Max-Cam-Wood-Hayes
Bronny-JHS-Max L-Castleton |
 Sterting PGs?  |
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daytripper
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 1208
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | Would y’all empty the cupboard for Markannen?
Rui+3FRPs+3 swaps for Markannen? |
If they hire Redick as the HC I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like this.. Both Lebron and Redick were raving about Markkanen.
He is still only 26 so should only be entering his prime. His game should fit next to any star. After Lebron hangs 'em up they could bring in just about any superstar and Lauri's game would fit next to them. |
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