Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:23 pm Post subject: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference. _________________ “like I never left”
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
We're a long ways from the finals. If by some chance we get there, I really don't care who the opponent is.
As far as your other questions, I don't think LeBron will ever be cemented as the goat. At a minimum they'll always be a debate between him and MJ.
As far as LeBron having his Lakers jersey retired, I think that's already a given.
To me, unless Bron "ups his game" to a significant extent in order to pull the Lakers to a championship, it doesn't do anything for his legacy. This isn't a diss on him--actually, this is a compliment. I think he has already proven himself.
As far as making him deserving of a retired Lakers jersey, DEFINITELY yes. You can say winning a single championship doesn't make you worthy of a retired jersey. But if you are GOAT or arguably GOAT, and more than one of those championships have come with a single franchise, most definitely you deserve a retried jersey.
If the lakers win NBA championship, he is the goat no matter who we play. The 2-10 team winning a title is the most improper run in pro sports.
With that being said, I will be happy with WCF or even just a series win against the grizzlies.
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
Yes. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
I must admit I was never a lebron supporter. My love for Kobe and the lakers would never let me be a fan of lebrons. However, since he’s been a laker and I have been forced to watch him I’ve learned to appreciate his game. Plus, What he’s doing at 38 years old is unprecedented in this game.
Lebron is not as fun to watch as Kobe, Jordan, Shaq, or curry. He racks up stats and you don’t even realize he’s done so much by the end of the game. However, if he manages to win another ring with the lakers, especially if it’s over Boston I will call him the goat.
This is coming from a guy that never wanted him on the lakers to begin with. What he’s doing is undeniable at this point. _________________ “like I never left”
LeBron’s jersey will be retired no matter what. Lakers want his name up there. It brings up the value of the franchise just having his name in the rafters.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35853 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:45 pm Post subject:
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Yea but I don’t think 1 ring is enough to get him there. 2 rings minimum to me…..he’s a great player not a great laker at the moment.
I was at the game Saturday night and they did a quick throwback tribute to Kobe and the crowd went crazy. Kobe, Kobe, Kobe….the crowd was more hyped for a dead man than anything bron did Saturday night.
Heck when the crowd noticed Lamar Odom he got more love than when the announced lebron.
Magic had a crowd waiting by his car as he walked into crypto.
Lebron ain’t there yet _________________ “like I never left”
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five.
I mean to be fair if the lakers find a way to win this year there is a damn good chance they repeat next season. That puts lebron at 6. Would that change your stance? _________________ “like I never left”
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five.
The finals record argument doesn't make much sense.
Take two players who each logged 20 years in the NBA. I would rather have a 4-8 finals record than a 4-0 finals record. Both guys would have won four rings. But the 4-8 guy had eight seasons where his team progressed to the finals while the 4-0 guy had eight more seasons where he was getting booted in earlier rounds.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8347 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:07 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five.
The finals record argument doesn't make much sense.
Take two players who each logged 20 years in the NBA. I would rather have a 4-8 finals record than a 4-0 finals record. Both guys would have won four rings. But the 4-8 guy had eight seasons where his team progressed to the finals while the 4-0 guy had eight more seasons where he was getting booted in earlier rounds.
I'd much rather have a 4-0 finals record than a 4-8 record, because those eight losses would really hurt, and there would be many days where instead of focusing on the fact that I won four championships, I'd be focusing on the fact that it could've and should've been six, seven or eight.
Plus when an all-time great loses that many times in the finals, it likely means he's lacking something in the clutch or intangibles department. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Plus when an all-time great loses that many times in the finals, it likely means he's lacking something in the clutch or intangibles department.
Or it means they were playing better teams. In Lebron's finals losses the only time they were likely the better team and lost was to the Mavericks, who happened to sweep the Kobe/Pau/Bynum/Odom/MWP Lakers earlier in the playoffs. That was his only disappointing Finals, he was pretty bad that finals though. Was too deferential to teammates. He learned from it in his next appearances.
It all has to be taken in context with any of those things. Lebron for example, is 4-6 in the Finals. The first time he reached it he carried a weak team into the finals surprisingly, after upsetting the Pistons. They were not good enough to beat a Spurs team who won their 3rd title in 5 years though. I don't think anyone other than haters is going to hold that one against a 22 year old whose best teammates were Zydrunas Ilgauskus (12/8) and Larry Hughes (15/4/4).
In Miami he had the disappointing series to the Mavs, that was on him. But his other finals losses were splitting titles with the Spurs in Miami, and then three losses to the Warriors, who were a historically good team.
Some of the goat worthy players career finals numbers:
Jordan's 6-0 combined with stellar stats is what puts him over the top. Shaq was pretty unstoppable in the finals, as well. Though in his case they went to Kobe down the stretch of games. After that Lebron and Hakeem are probably the best finals performers of the group. Yet Lebron finds himself 4-6 in the Finals. Context.
I think you have to take the whole of it when talking about a player's career. Jordan going 6-0, and his overall dominance as a player will make him tough for anyone to knock him off that pedestal. Lebron needs at least another title to stand a chance. But I doubt he'd surpass him in the eyes of many, even if he did. But I don't think people are going to hold it against him that he lost to the Durant/Steph/Klay/Draymond warriors in the finals 3 times, or that a young Lebron lost his first two trips there.
That would be like holding it against Jordan that they couldn't get past the Bad Boy Pistons or the Bird led Celtics. He simply didn't have a good enough team. Once he had the talent around him though, he didn't lose.
Last edited by J.C. Smith on Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five.
The finals record argument doesn't make much sense.
Take two players who each logged 20 years in the NBA. I would rather have a 4-8 finals record than a 4-0 finals record. Both guys would have won four rings. But the 4-8 guy had eight seasons where his team progressed to the finals while the 4-0 guy had eight more seasons where he was getting booted in earlier rounds.
Yeah it’s so odd that people penalize him for getting to the Finals. It would be more impressive if he lost in Round 3 those years? That first Cavs team was supposed to beat the Spurs? Hard to believe he’s got 4 rings including a win over a 73 win team and this silly stuff still gets tossed around. _________________ 14-5-3-12
It might clearly put LeBron above Kareem, but LeBron’s finals record will always be a problem for him in the debate with MJ. That, and his team hopping. And both MJ and Kareem have six, not five.
The finals record argument doesn't make much sense.
Take two players who each logged 20 years in the NBA. I would rather have a 4-8 finals record than a 4-0 finals record. Both guys would have won four rings. But the 4-8 guy had eight seasons where his team progressed to the finals while the 4-0 guy had eight more seasons where he was getting booted in earlier rounds.
I'd much rather have a 4-0 finals record than a 4-8 record, because those eight losses would really hurt, and there would be many days where instead of focusing on the fact that I won four championships, I'd be focusing on the fact that it could've and should've been six, seven or eight.
Plus when an all-time great loses that many times in the finals, it likely means he's lacking something in the clutch or intangibles department.
By that logic, you would consider LeBron to be more clutch and have better intangibles if the Lakers lost the next three games to Memphis than if they work their way up to the finals and lose to a better team. Explain the reasoning for that to me, because I don't get it at all
Last edited by activeverb on Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:03 am; edited 2 times in total
If the Pistons played in San Diego then Jordan would have 3 Finals losses. If that matters to you that’s fine, but understand that you’re arguing that what matters most is geography. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144464 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:50 am Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
Lebron will never be universally considered as the GOAT, there are always other players to consider. Is Lebron even a top 10 player now? I don’t agree with retiring jerseys so I really don’t care about that. Flip the fantasy, what if Lebron loses to the Celtics? Is he considered a Laker failure? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35853 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:22 am Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
venturalakersfan wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
Lebron will never be universally considered as the GOAT, there are always other players to consider. Is Lebron even a top 10 player now? I don’t agree with retiring jerseys so I really don’t care about that. Flip the fantasy, what if Lebron loses to the Celtics? Is he considered a Laker failure?
How can the all time leading regular season and playoff scorer not be top ten? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I must admit I was never a lebron supporter. My love for Kobe and the lakers would never let me be a fan of lebrons. However, since he’s been a laker and I have been forced to watch him I’ve learned to appreciate his game. Plus, What he’s doing at 38 years old is unprecedented in this game.
Lebron is not as fun to watch as Kobe, Jordan, Shaq, or curry. He racks up stats and you don’t even realize he’s done so much by the end of the game. However, if he manages to win another ring with the lakers, especially if it’s over Boston I will call him the goat.
This is coming from a guy that never wanted him on the lakers to begin with. What he’s doing is undeniable at this point.
My thoughts are your words exactly 👍. Even if others don’t acknowledge it, for me, getting #18 to be the franchise with the most would make LBJ the GOAT in my eyes. When I became a Laker, they needed 8 more championships than Foston to past them…and although I hoped for it it…I realistically questioned if I would ever see it in my lifetime. If I do see that dream come true I would regard the leader of that team as my GOAT. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 652 Location: Lakersfield!
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
If this happened, I would rank LeBron as equal with Kobe (Who I consider the GOAT) so yes, lol.
And yeah, he would definitely qualify to retire his jersey here if that was his choice. But I think he would probably retire in Cleveland.
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: 2023 LA vs BOS finals match-up
CandyCanes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
If this were to happen, and Bron brings us number 18 by going through the Boston Celtics, would that cement bron as the GOAT?
Moreover, would that cement his name in laker history and make him deserving of a retired jersey? Pau has 2 rings and his jersey is retired for reference.
Lebron will never be universally considered as the GOAT, there are always other players to consider. Is Lebron even a top 10 player now? I don’t agree with retiring jerseys so I really don’t care about that. Flip the fantasy, what if Lebron loses to the Celtics? Is he considered a Laker failure?
How can the all time leading regular season and playoff scorer not be top ten?
I think he means currently in the NBA, not all time. I have Lebron in the 8-12 range myself currently
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