Would you trade both FRPs (unprotected) to Indy or Utah?
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Would you trade both FRPs to Indy or Utah?
Yes to either team
10%
 10%  [ 8 ]
Yes to Indy only
21%
 21%  [ 17 ]
Yes to Utah only
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
No to either team
65%
 65%  [ 52 ]
Total Votes : 79

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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:16 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The way they've built the roster this year, I don't think they need to rely on WB all that much. Dennis and Bev both can easily take up 48 mins at the 1. There's Reaves, Walker, Christie, Nunn for the 2. Lebron/AD/JTA/Brown/Swider at the forward spots. Then Bryant/Gabriel/Jones at the 5 (with AD available for that spot too).

Honestly, doesn't seem like a roster that will be heavily on reliant on Westbrook. Last year his backups were far worse than him. This year they may argue that the backups (Bev/Dennis) can outplay him many nights unless he's a lot better.


So Westbrook is deadweight, but don't want to add a 1st rounder to acquire players that aren't dead weight?

Still, doesn't make sense to me.

Here's the thing you are missing, IMO.

The Lakers FO seems to continue to ignore/defy the defensive and offensive balance that won them a ring around AD/Bron. So why do you trust them using 2 draft picks (unprotected most likely) to achieve balanced lineups?

As we saw last year, talent alone doesn't mean anything. Westbrook's trade value was what it was. We used a pick. But because he was a poor fit, the trade was the worst in Lakers history. So now we're going to trust that same executive to orchestrate a smart, good trade using WB+2 picks?

I totally understand you want to acheive more talent around AD/Lebron. I agree with this argument in theory. Here's my worry. What if the trade is a stinker? We dug the hole even deeper.

I'll give you an example of the way the FO seems to differ in thinking from what won the ring around AD/Lebron. They traded THT, Stanley for Bev. On paper Bev is a known name, and a significant talent/energy guy. He should on paper provide a lot of the stuff the team was lacking defensively last year (and that voice). But what if those assets instead could have brought you Bojan? AD/Lebron/WB need a guy like Bojan much more than they need Pat Bev. THen they go out and sign Dennis, and use the MMLE on LW4.

All these moves individually are not bad. Pat Bev, LW4 at the MMLE, Nunn last year, Dennis for the vet min. Individually solid/decent moves. But when you look at it from a roster overall building the pieces seem out of place.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:36 am    Post subject:

I'd trade a Kelly Olynyk and Saben Lee for a player.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
You guys want LAL to tank the year, only for the Pelicans to get a pick swap for 2023, and then they would get the Lakers pick?


That decision was made 3 years ago, the team has already signed up for that.


Even more reason to not give up on this year then.

We can’t have it both ways. Management keeps telling us their motivation is that Lakers fans expect championships. Why then does it make sense to trade all you have left so that you can say you made the playoffs? There’s no banner for that.

I’ll be bold and say what no one else here will. There’s not a trade on the planet that will give them the assets to be equally competitive with the Warriors and many of the other top teams who will be in line to win a ring. If you’re going to give away the rest of the decade’s draft picks, it better be to win a ring, not to make the playoffs. No way I ever want to see that happen. As has been said already, after the multiple picks in the AD trade, they’ve continually dug holes without making improvements by giving away picks the past 2 years. Speeding up the giveaway process this offseason isn’t a formula to make the team a champion. It’s insanity and a future of being a laughing stock franchise.
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youcantguardme
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Don't trade the pick. The Utah deal will never happen now. The Indiana deal isn't worth more than Russ straight up. Hield is a nice player and a good shooter but only a slight improvement from Russ.

The Lakers are going to be average this year. LeBron will get the scoring title and fill the seats. Bet on next year.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:50 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The way they've built the roster this year, I don't think they need to rely on WB all that much. Dennis and Bev both can easily take up 48 mins at the 1. There's Reaves, Walker, Christie, Nunn for the 2. Lebron/AD/JTA/Brown/Swider at the forward spots. Then Bryant/Gabriel/Jones at the 5 (with AD available for that spot too).

Honestly, doesn't seem like a roster that will be heavily on reliant on Westbrook. Last year his backups were far worse than him. This year they may argue that the backups (Bev/Dennis) can outplay him many nights unless he's a lot better.


So Westbrook is deadweight, but don't want to add a 1st rounder to acquire players that aren't dead weight?

Still, doesn't make sense to me.

Here's the thing you are missing, IMO.

The Lakers FO seems to continue to ignore/defy the defensive and offensive balance that won them a ring around AD/Bron. So why do you trust them using 2 draft picks (unprotected most likely) to achieve balanced lineups?

As we saw last year, talent alone doesn't mean anything. Westbrook's trade value was what it was. We used a pick. But because he was a poor fit, the trade was the worst in Lakers history. So now we're going to trust that same executive to orchestrate a smart, good trade using WB+2 picks?

I totally understand you want to acheive more talent around AD/Lebron. I agree with this argument in theory. Here's my worry. What if the trade is a stinker? We dug the hole even deeper.

I'll give you an example of the way the FO seems to differ in thinking from what won the ring around AD/Lebron. They traded THT, Stanley for Bev. On paper Bev is a known name, and a significant talent/energy guy. He should on paper provide a lot of the stuff the team was lacking defensively last year (and that voice). But what if those assets instead could have brought you Bojan? AD/Lebron/WB need a guy like Bojan much more than they need Pat Bev. THen they go out and sign Dennis, and use the MMLE on LW4.

All these moves individually are not bad. Pat Bev, LW4 at the MMLE, Nunn last year, Dennis for the vet min. Individually solid/decent moves. But when you look at it from a roster overall building the pieces seem out of place.


What if the trade doesn't work?

Man, LAL has already made a series of mistakes in terms of what players to keep, what contracts to offer, etc. Did they really need to let go of Stanley Johnson? No, but they did it anyway.

If it doesn't work, so what? The likely of it working is MUCH higher than with Westbrook onboard. I think that's what everyone is missing. If Westbrook's contract was worth that much in a salary dump, a trade would have been done.

Even better, it's also another assumption that once players are traded to LA, that all of their value plummets. It in fact, does not. So no, I don't think I'm missing anything, and as I've said before, LAL shot themselves in both feet, which is why it costs extra picks. That's not everyone else's fault. It's the Lakers' fault.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:52 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
You guys want LAL to tank the year, only for the Pelicans to get a pick swap for 2023, and then they would get the Lakers pick?


That decision was made 3 years ago, the team has already signed up for that.


Even more reason to not give up on this year then.

We can’t have it both ways. Management keeps telling us their motivation is that Lakers fans expect championships. Why then does it make sense to trade all you have left so that you can say you made the playoffs? There’s no banner for that.

I’ll be bold and say what no one else here will. There’s not a trade on the planet that will give them the assets to be equally competitive with the Warriors and many of the other top teams who will be in line to win a ring. If you’re going to give away the rest of the decade’s draft picks, it better be to win a ring, not to make the playoffs. No way I ever want to see that happen. As has been said already, after the multiple picks in the AD trade, they’ve continually dug holes without making improvements by giving away picks the past 2 years. Speeding up the giveaway process this offseason isn’t a formula to make the team a champion. It’s insanity and a future of being a laughing stock franchise.


Because it shows you're maximizing utility with the franchise players acquired, and that precedent has pretty much been set since Dr. Buss was an owner, and also a big reason why LeBron became a Laker as a free agent.

You know how bad it looks to throw away a season when you've got franchise players onboard? How long did it take for Boston to recover just to get to the Finals since 2008? They traded away their franchise players, admittedly late in their career, but had zero loyalty to Paul Pierce, who was their beloved. How many franchise players did they acquire through free agency since? Trades?

Yeah, we're not the Celtics.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:25 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
You guys want LAL to tank the year, only for the Pelicans to get a pick swap for 2023, and then they would get the Lakers pick?


That decision was made 3 years ago, the team has already signed up for that.


Even more reason to not give up on this year then.

We can’t have it both ways. Management keeps telling us their motivation is that Lakers fans expect championships. Why then does it make sense to trade all you have left so that you can say you made the playoffs? There’s no banner for that.

I’ll be bold and say what no one else here will. There’s not a trade on the planet that will give them the assets to be equally competitive with the Warriors and many of the other top teams who will be in line to win a ring. If you’re going to give away the rest of the decade’s draft picks, it better be to win a ring, not to make the playoffs. No way I ever want to see that happen. As has been said already, after the multiple picks in the AD trade, they’ve continually dug holes without making improvements by giving away picks the past 2 years. Speeding up the giveaway process this offseason isn’t a formula to make the team a champion. It’s insanity and a future of being a laughing stock franchise.


Because it shows you're maximizing utility with the franchise players acquired, and that precedent has pretty much been set since Dr. Buss was an owner, and also a big reason why LeBron became a Laker as a free agent.

You know how bad it looks to throw away a season when you've got franchise players onboard? How long did it take for Boston to recover just to get to the Finals since 2008? They traded away their franchise players, admittedly late in their career, but had zero loyalty to Paul Pierce, who was their beloved. How many franchise players did they acquire through free agency since? Trades?

Yeah, we're not the Celtics.

1. The Lakers aren’t going to throw away the season. It’s time to get real and accept the reality. They’re going to live with the mess they’ve made. They’ve made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

2. In 2013 Boston smartly traded the corpses of Pierce and Garnett (along with other assets they didn’t just give away) for 3 first round picks and a pick swap. After drafting Marcus Smart in ‘14, those picks became Jaylen Brown in ‘16 and Tatum in ‘17. Now there’s an article on nbcsports.com titled: “Celtics’ Finals berth makes 2013 Nets trade look even better.

To answer your question, it actually took Boston 12 years to get back to the finals after 2010, 2 years longer than the Lakers. Unlike the Lakers, however, the Celtics have assets and ability to get better. L.A. only depends on dreams of an elusive unnamed free agent who wants to come here. Yeah, we’re not the Celtics.

I could care less about trying to follow Dr. Buss’ legacy. Those days and ways were out the window once Magic was given the keys and made key damaging moves to wreck the franchise before he left.

Lebron and Davis are loyal to themselves, not the Lakers’ or their fans. Like the Celtics, the Lakers could achieve more long term success by continuing to keep loyalty out of the equation, as they’ve done with each of their draft picks.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:33 pm    Post subject:

1. Why do they have to lie in it when there's still opportunities to improve?

2. I wouldn't say "Smartly traded" because there hasn't been any prime FAs that have been interested in going there.

3. You should care about that Dr. Buss legacy because the current front office abides by it. If they didn't, they'd be paying a ton more for championships.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:28 am    Post subject:

Seems like what I heard on Lakers nation is true.

If the Jazz traded Bogdan for no picks, it seems that the Lakers were wanting to do the trade with Russ with no first round picks.

And thus it seems the Lakers want to save their 2 FRPS for a homerun If it ever presents for a superstar.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:35 am    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
Seems like what I heard on Lakers nation is true.

If the Jazz traded Bogdan for no picks, it seems that the Lakers were wanting to do the trade with Russ with no first round picks.

And thus it seems the Lakers want to save their 2 FRPS for a homerun If it ever presents for a superstar.


Danny Ainge works in Utah. Of course he'd want the extra pick from LAL, and then make LAL look bad for trading Bojan for less.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:18 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
Seems like what I heard on Lakers nation is true.

If the Jazz traded Bogdan for no picks, it seems that the Lakers were wanting to do the trade with Russ with no first round picks.

And thus it seems the Lakers want to save their 2 FRPS for a homerun If it ever presents for a superstar.


Danny Ainge works in Utah. Of course he'd want the extra pick from LAL, and then make LAL look bad for trading Bojan for less.


The mother f.. I guess we can't expect less from someone who battled against the showtime Lakers and lost mostly.

I just thought as a owner he would do what is best for business.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
1. Why do they have to lie in it when there's still opportunities to improve?

2. I wouldn't say "Smartly traded" because there hasn't been any prime FAs that have been interested in going there.

They’re going to lie in the bed they’ve made because reality is at some point you deal with the consequences of your actions. They can keep trying to kick the can down the road, but apparently even they don’t think that’s the smart thing to do. If they thought it was going to bring them another championship, they’d probably happily trade those 2 picks.

It was absolutely smart for the Celtics to move on from Pierce & Garnett when they did in order to land the draft picks they did. If they hadn’t done it, they wouldn’t have been in the finals last season, nor would they have a chance to return there again this year and beyond.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Pelinka is the worst GM the Lakers ever had.

And maybe the worse of all time.
He is an agent but not a builder.

He throws away FRPs and valuable roll players for nothing.

He does not care about the Lakers or the future of the team.

Lakers are hard to watch right now because of him.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:44 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:

Lakers are hard to watch right now because of him.

I’ve watched good and bad Lakers’ teams since the beginning ‘70’s. I no longer have a favorite player, don’t have a positive feeling about the team, and I flat out don’t like at least one player.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:15 am    Post subject:

The picks are all but gone, it's just about someone giving Rob what he wants. If he sees the team is playoff level, then he's going to make a big move, IMO. What I'm worried about is what that move may be. These are the last assets Rob really has to trade for a long time. I just hope when they cash in, it's not for players that don't end up helping the Lakers compete for a title. History isn't on Rob's side, the only trade that has worked for him so far in his career was the AD one (where he also overpaid a ton in picks).

All the other "smart" "smaller" or big moves, didn't pan on out all.

McGee/2nd round pick trade.
Zubac for Muscula trade.
Green/FRP for Dennis.
Traded for Isaac Bonga
Traded Svi/2nd round pick

And of course the firable offense of trading a FRP, KCP, Kuz, Trez and the ability to sign Caruso for Westbrook.

I dunno, but I rather we keep these picks for the basis argument that Pelinka tends to lose almost all his trades, pretty bad. The only one that he didn't lose badly was the Anthony Davis trade, that too because we were fortunate that the pandemic hit a re-set button to the season allowing AD/Bron to peak at the right time.
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