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emplay
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Hanging from Rafters
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 Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the article. It’s going to be interesting to see if the Lakers are able to make a deal…and if so…what that deal would be?
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Here's another - broader on the trade market at the early stages.
Next is the G League Showcase when teams in person get a feel for the market -- then we get into the waiting game, small deals, maybe 1 or 2 bigger once - and then it all comes together the week of the deadline when teams realize it's X or nothing
New @BleacherReport Latest NBA Intel on Trade-Season Storylines - w/trade season unofficially starting on the 15th, who are the names we will fixate-on/debate/argue-about/ask-if-Bogdanovic-can-legally-be-dealt as trade targets through the deadline?!?!? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058513-latest-nba-intel-on-trade-season-storylines
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Great article Em,
My first choice would be: DeMar DeRozan and Nikola Vučević.
Followed closely by the Miles & Heild
Love to have Kuz back, since he no longer occupies the same Position as AD...!
One HUGE problem, I think the Lakers now have is that any team offering talent is gonna want Reaves instead of Bev & Nunn...!
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Halflife
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | Great article Em,
My first choice would be: DeMar DeRozan and Nikola Vučević.
Followed closely by the Miles & Heild
Love to have Kuz back, since he no longer occupies the same Position as AD...!
One HUGE problem, I think the Lakers now have is that any team offering talent is gonna want Reaves instead of Bev & Nunn...! |
My small dream
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emplay
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Turner - per my articles - isn't readily available and to be honest, AD at this point has to play center. Lakers need more of a Jerami Grant type than they need a 5
And Vuc doesn't defend and changes how the Lakers need to play too much
DDR maybe is a fit - but the shooting is problematic
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emplay
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Turner - per my articles - isn't readily available and to be honest, AD at this point has to play center. Lakers need more of a Jerami Grant type than they need a 5
And Vuc doesn't defend and changes how the Lakers need to play too much
DDR maybe is a fit - but the shooting is problematic
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | Turner - per my articles - isn't readily available and to be honest, AD at this point has to play center. Lakers need more of a Jerami Grant type than they need a 5
And Vuc doesn't defend and changes how the Lakers need to play too much
DDR maybe is a fit - but the shooting is problematic |
then go get Kuzma |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Seriously hilarious how the sense is that Vucevic and DeRozan wouldn’t add anything when this team tends to go down double digits and need all the offensive power, unless you wanna enjoy Westbrook ghosting in the 4th |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Seriously hilarious how the sense is that Vucevic and DeRozan wouldn’t add anything when this team tends to go down double digits and need all the offensive power, unless you wanna enjoy Westbrook ghosting in the 4th |
Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Seriously hilarious how the sense is that Vucevic and DeRozan wouldn’t add anything when this team tends to go down double digits and need all the offensive power, unless you wanna enjoy Westbrook ghosting in the 4th |
Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Seriously hilarious how the sense is that Vucevic and DeRozan wouldn’t add anything when this team tends to go down double digits and need all the offensive power, unless you wanna enjoy Westbrook ghosting in the 4th |
Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
I don't have any opinions about Vucevic but AD being most effective at the 5 is somewhat of an over-simplification: yes he's most effective as a 5 on offense but on defense he is just as effective (if not more) with another 5 e.g. Howard/McGee/Boogie.
It was an utter travesty for the Lakers to have thrown away Lopez, he would have done for AD what he does for Giannis on the Bucks or what Boogie did for him in NO. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
I don't have any opinions about Vucevic but AD being most effective at the 5 is somewhat of an over-simplification: yes he's most effective as a 5 on offense but on defense he is just as effective (if not more) with another 5 e.g. Howard/McGee/Boogie.
It was an utter travesty for the Lakers to have thrown away Lopez, he would have done for AD what he does for Giannis on the Bucks or what Boogie did for him in NO. |
Facts!
AD had a growth spurt late in his adolescence. Not sure if it correlates to his injury susceptibility, but what it has shown is that he’s mobility is not that of a typical big. Imho, he would be absolutely devastating to our opps on the perimeter as a defensive wing. Help defense and weakside rim protection would be a thing of beauty if we could get a 5 that can not only start but also emphasizes the defensive end of the court.
The reason folks are thirsty for AD at the 5 is strictly offensive…but personally I find it offensive they don’t emphasize how beast dude could be as a roaming free safety on the defensive side of the ball.
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers need another Big and I mean real BIG, not kinda big, not sorta big, any 7 footer can stand in front of the basket and make easy shots over Bryant...
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Price for Vucevic would be at $30+M for 3+ years that would take AD away from playing the position that he is the most effective - hope |
I don't have any opinions about Vucevic but AD being most effective at the 5 is somewhat of an over-simplification: yes he's most effective as a 5 on offense but on defense he is just as effective (if not more) with another 5 e.g. Howard/McGee/Boogie.
It was an utter travesty for the Lakers to have thrown away Lopez, he would have done for AD what he does for Giannis on the Bucks or what Boogie did for him in NO. |
Facts!
AD had a growth spurt late in his adolescence. Not sure if it correlates to his injury susceptibility, but what it has shown is that he’s mobility is not that of a typical big. Imho, he would be absolutely devastating to our opps on the perimeter as a defensive wing. Help defense and weakside rim protection would be a thing of beauty if we could get a 5 that can not only start but also emphasizes the defensive end of the court.
The reason folks are thirsty for AD at the 5 is strictly offensive…but personally I find it offensive they don’t emphasize how beast dude could be as a roaming free safety on the defensive side of the ball. |
When everybody is "On a String" on defense, Lakers have proven to devastating on both sides of the ball.
As a defensive wing (playing the "4"?) would result in playing more in the perimeter. He wouldn't get the pounding but he would face quicker players. Success clearly indicates that he is the most effective at the 5.
Having a big 5 that doesn't clog the paint for AD/LBJ with an outside shot is ideal, ask Marc Gasol why this didn't work with AD?
Turner is a lessor version of Drummond (who is much more durable than Turner) that didn't work
6'10" Bryant has a dependable outside shot (50%/64.3% - https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3934723/thomas-bryant), 5.4 rebounds per game, works well with LBJ, young and plays with energy.
Better question is which player is much better than Bryant and at what cost? |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Turner is a lessor version of Drummond (who is much more durable than Turner) that didn't work |
In what way are they the same? Drummond was one of the leagues best rebounders, but he wasn't a very good defender, was a mediocre shot blocker. Had no touch, couldn't shoot (career 12.9% from three), but he made a living off put backs and offensive rebounds. He was 6'10" and 280 lbs. A bulky dude.
Turner is more of a wiry athlete, 6'10" 250 lbs. He's a mediocre rebounder, but an elite shot blocker (led league twice) and a versatile defender. He's also a career 35.4% three point shooter, and shooting 41.3% from three.
I don't see how their games are very similar. Nor their fit with AD. Drummond was a mediocre post player who wanted post touches and couldn't stretch the floor to play alongside AD. He only averaged 1 block in 25 minutes as a Laker. And with AD also struggling shooting that season, they weren't easy to play together.
Turner is a guy who can switch on the perimeter. And more importantly he can stretch the floor, opening up driving lanes. The best version of that pairing would be two athletic big men who could both shut down the paint and were quick enough to still aid on the perimeter. It would take away the ability to take one of them away from the basket with a pick and roll, because you'd have a second shot blocker waiting. If it worked out, it could be quite effective. He'd basically be playing McGee's role in the title year, but being much better at it, and able to stretch the floor. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Turner is a lessor version of Drummond (who is much more durable than Turner) that didn't work |
In what way are they the same? Drummond was one of the leagues best rebounders, but he wasn't a very good defender, was a mediocre shot blocker. Had no touch, couldn't shoot (career 12.9% from three), but he made a living off put backs and offensive rebounds. He was 6'10" and 280 lbs. A bulky dude.
Turner is more of a wiry athlete, 6'10" 250 lbs. He's a mediocre rebounder, but an elite shot blocker (led league twice) and a versatile defender. He's also a career 35.4% three point shooter, and shooting 41.3% from three.
I don't see how their games are very similar. Nor their fit with AD. Drummond was a mediocre post player who wanted post touches and couldn't stretch the floor to play alongside AD. He only averaged 1 block in 25 minutes as a Laker. And with AD also struggling shooting that season, they weren't easy to play together.
Turner is a guy who can switch on the perimeter. And more importantly he can stretch the floor, opening up driving lanes. The best version of that pairing would be two athletic big men who could both shut down the paint and were quick enough to still aid on the perimeter. It would take away the ability to take one of them away from the basket with a pick and roll, because you'd have a second shot blocker waiting. If it worked out, it could be quite effective. He'd basically be playing McGee's role in the title year, but being much better at it, and able to stretch the floor. |
"Since 2000-01, Drummond’s average of 13.2 rebounds per game is well ahead of runner-up Dwight Howard’s 11.8. And if Drummond even meant past this recent turn of the century, his rebounding percentage of 24.68 is the all-time best over runner-up and Hall of Famer Dennis Rodman’s 23.44."
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-andre-drummond-says-hes-best-rebounder-past-century
Drummond has a 1.4 BPG / Myles Turner has a 2.3 BPG
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/how-many-blocks-does-andre-drummond-have-per-game
Check out the comparison between Myles Turner vs Andre Drummond and the easy winner is Drummond
https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/andre_drummond_vs_myles_turner.htm
"The Pacers center has been injury plagued the last couple of seasons. He played in just 47 games last year after appearing in just 42 games the season before. Indiana had reportedly been talking about trading Turner the last couple of years, but his trade value has plummeted with all of his injuries."
~ Plus what will you give to get Turner, since his injury-prone (who doesn't move the need far enought) will be demanding a $20+M per year contract for three years that will penalize the Lakers to get a far better player to meet a need.
https://clutchpoints.com/pacers-news-myles-turner-freak-injury-feared-worse-than-originally-thought
Since Myles Turner cannot play the "4" - opposing teams will love not having to always deal with AD at the 5. History has shown that AD at the 5 is his best position.
Two athletic bigs, how has KAT and Gobert working out?
Lakers many other options and future opportunities to balance their roster
How is Turner going to be far better than Bryant?
Laker's great problem is not shot-blocking but getting rebounds |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
History has shown that AD at the 5 is his best position.
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Huh? AD has played 4 with McGee, Howard and Boogie and was just as great.
The fact that he played 5 against Houston, Denver and Miami in the 2020 championship run and did great has been consistently extrapolated to the simplistic conclusion that AD's best position is 5. All supposition not backed by any data. There are 2 sides to the floor
Defense: AD is equally as good at the 4 as at the 5, unicorn.
Offense: AD is better at the 5 as he can out-quick physical 5's and draw-out rim-protecting smaller 5's. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: |
History has shown that AD at the 5 is his best position.
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Huh? AD has played 4 with McGee, Howard and Boogie and was just as great.
The fact that he played 5 against Houston, Denver and Miami in the 2020 championship run and did great has been consistently extrapolated to the simplistic conclusion that AD's best position is 5. All supposition not backed by any data. There are 2 sides to the floor
Defense: AD is equally as good at the 4 as at the 5, unicorn.
Offense: AD is better at the 5 as he can out-quick physical 5's and draw-out rim-protecting smaller 5's. |
Appreciate your POV
Most Laker/NBA pundits have recognized that his effectiveness and impact on the court has been when he is playing the 5.
AD’s historic stats in winning games has demonstrate what can/will happen when he is unleashed. Greek Freak/Jokic/Luka-like impact is immediate and dramatic. Look forward to learning how much better AD can be mainly playing at the 4 (noting your words)
He has played alongside Gasol, Drummond, Boogie, Dwight and McGhee (probably many others at NOLA). Even during this times, effectiveness had been limited and more for AD not to get a pounding from larger centers (in today’s NBA, there are few besides Embiid and a few others) plus they were never considered as the 5 since he usually/always closed games at the 5
One could wonder why the Pels weren’t winning or confident in the AD/Boogie combo (https://amp.www.complex.com/sports/2017/12/why-boogie-and-the-brow-are-working). Boogie/AD in LaLaLand didn’t work
KAT/Gobert is not working
Luka/Kristaps Porziņģis didn’t work
If one is preparing for when AD is injured, Turner is injury prone. As shared above, Bryant has provided many contributions while providing great energy showing that he can be effective with LBJ and Westbrook plus he has a consistent outside shot
Since Indy is not trading Turner and Lakers not trading Reeves (for a rental or player that would take AD away the position where he has been dramatically better - player Indy would be demanding), it is a moot question
Recognizing that a trade means acquiring and sending players, what would be a good trade |
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roger_federer
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | Turner - per my articles - isn't readily available and to be honest, AD at this point has to play center. Lakers need more of a Jerami Grant type than they need a 5
And Vuc doesn't defend and changes how the Lakers need to play too much
DDR maybe is a fit - but the shooting is problematic |
he is hurt last 3 seasons. no coincidence that those are the seasons he played more C. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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he was also hurt most of his career in NOP playing PF
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