Official World Cup 2022 Thread
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
Buck32 wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
What a damn shame the true GOAT couldnt be ordained as in not the perennial choker Messi but the guy who has the flair of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar without the extravagence and the calm coolness of Messi with the game similar to El Fenomeno R9 Ronaldo. Watching Mbappe was like watching Floyd Mayweather - a young great reach greatness at a young age and knowing the future is unlimited. What a shame he had to lose cause his teammates were not clutch enough. The mental fortitude to step up to the spot 3 times against a great penalty saver in Martinez and bury all his chances. I know a guy who has choked way too often on penalties and his name is Messi.


I always feel like a person who can’t appreciate Messi is one who doesn’t really see the true beauty of the game.

Perhaps you’d feel differently if you’d taken a penalty in front of a crowd before, I can assure you it isn’t as easy as it looks when you get up there.



Messi is one of the best to ever play, and is better than CR or Zidane. Is he the GOAT? While Maradona had a better international career Messi has a better club record. I'm also partial to Cruyff when in comes to GOAT discussions. And Romario was my favorite player. Anyway Messie should at least be top 5 in any GOAT discussion.
The only (minor) thing I don't like is when he fakes his penalty to throw off the keeper. FIFA should ban this. When a player starts his motion he cannot stop before taking the kick. That's like a basketball player faking his freethrow. Neymar also does this all the time.


To me Messi is the GOAT by an absolute mile. His peak was the greatest I’ve ever seen, his best season is better than what anyone else ever did, his longevity and achievements, list goes on… CR7 should be the second greatest ever because of goal scoring, longevity and sheer athleticism, but I think Messi’s skill and playmaking put him above.

I don’t put the older players in the conversation to be honest, I think the game has changed and evolved so much that a player like Maradona probably wouldn’t have the conditioning to be what he was back then if he played now. And as for Mbappe who was mentioned above, he isn’t for me even the best French player ever, maybe when he’s done he will be, but not yet.

On subject of pens, the stuttered run up in a way is clever because it can force a keeper to react, but it looks dumb as hell if the player then misses.



Comparing eras is always a difficulty, because the modern era always has the advantage of evolution, but the older players can only play within their own era. I generally try to compare them within their own time and assume that older players would within reason adapt to and benefit from evolution. There are situations where you can posit that no one guy could have the dominance in todays game as earlier times, or that a period was so rudimentary and/or the player physically unsuitable to evolve (part of why I don’t put Mikan in GOAT lists except as a postscript), and maybe that’s an argument with Maradona, but i don’t agree with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:31 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
What a damn shame the true GOAT couldnt be ordained as in not the perennial choker Messi but the guy who has the flair of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar without the extravagence and the calm coolness of Messi with the game similar to El Fenomeno R9 Ronaldo. Watching Mbappe was like watching Floyd Mayweather - a young great reach greatness at a young age and knowing the future is unlimited. What a shame he had to lose cause his teammates were not clutch enough. The mental fortitude to step up to the spot 3 times against a great penalty saver in Martinez and bury all his chances. I know a guy who has choked way too often on penalties and his name is Messi.


I always feel like a person who can’t appreciate Messi is one who doesn’t really see the true beauty of the game.

Perhaps you’d feel differently if you’d taken a penalty in front of a crowd before, I can assure you it isn’t as easy as it looks when you get up there.


You just validated my point as to why guys who dont choke on critical penalties - and there are guys who never seem to miss - are extremely mentally clutch. As in Mbappe. Or how about guys like Zidane, Hierro and Shearer. Some guys just dont miss penalties and when you see these guys step up to the spot - its pretty much a guaranteed goal. No one can say Messi is one of these people. Those who seem to love Messi just dont seem to appreciate the cuthroatness or ruthlessness of sport to win and dont appreciate those that have always displayed a clutch mental toughness from the very beginning at the highest levels of sport - like a Tom Brady or Madison Bumgarner or Magic Johnson


You cannot call someone who has won every single trophy in the game a choker. Makes you sound like a hater, implying that Messi lacks mental toughness when the man is one of the greatest winners that football has ever seen.

Are you gonna call Zidane a choker for getting sent off in the World Cup final? Is Cristiano a choker for losing a Euro final to Greece? Or is it just Messi you have an issue with?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 1:17 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
What a damn shame the true GOAT couldnt be ordained as in not the perennial choker Messi but the guy who has the flair of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar without the extravagence and the calm coolness of Messi with the game similar to El Fenomeno R9 Ronaldo. Watching Mbappe was like watching Floyd Mayweather - a young great reach greatness at a young age and knowing the future is unlimited. What a shame he had to lose cause his teammates were not clutch enough. The mental fortitude to step up to the spot 3 times against a great penalty saver in Martinez and bury all his chances. I know a guy who has choked way too often on penalties and his name is Messi.


I always feel like a person who can’t appreciate Messi is one who doesn’t really see the true beauty of the game.

Perhaps you’d feel differently if you’d taken a penalty in front of a crowd before, I can assure you it isn’t as easy as it looks when you get up there.


You just validated my point as to why guys who dont choke on critical penalties - and there are guys who never seem to miss - are extremely mentally clutch. As in Mbappe. Or how about guys like Zidane, Hierro and Shearer. Some guys just dont miss penalties and when you see these guys step up to the spot - its pretty much a guaranteed goal. No one can say Messi is one of these people. Those who seem to love Messi just dont seem to appreciate the cuthroatness or ruthlessness of sport to win and dont appreciate those that have always displayed a clutch mental toughness from the very beginning at the highest levels of sport - like a Tom Brady or Madison Bumgarner or Magic Johnson


You cannot call someone who has won every single trophy in the game a choker. Makes you sound like a hater, implying that Messi lacks mental toughness when the man is one of the greatest winners that football has ever seen.

Are you gonna call Zidane a choker for getting sent off in the World Cup final? Is Cristiano a choker for losing a Euro final to Greece? Or is it just Messi you have an issue with?


I was about to say, Zidane got sent off in a World Cup Final, with a penalty shootout looming, because an opponent insulted his mother. Great mental toughness!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
What a damn shame the true GOAT couldnt be ordained as in not the perennial choker Messi but the guy who has the flair of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar without the extravagence and the calm coolness of Messi with the game similar to El Fenomeno R9 Ronaldo. Watching Mbappe was like watching Floyd Mayweather - a young great reach greatness at a young age and knowing the future is unlimited. What a shame he had to lose cause his teammates were not clutch enough. The mental fortitude to step up to the spot 3 times against a great penalty saver in Martinez and bury all his chances. I know a guy who has choked way too often on penalties and his name is Messi.


I always feel like a person who can’t appreciate Messi is one who doesn’t really see the true beauty of the game.

Perhaps you’d feel differently if you’d taken a penalty in front of a crowd before, I can assure you it isn’t as easy as it looks when you get up there.


You just validated my point as to why guys who dont choke on critical penalties - and there are guys who never seem to miss - are extremely mentally clutch. As in Mbappe. Or how about guys like Zidane, Hierro and Shearer. Some guys just dont miss penalties and when you see these guys step up to the spot - its pretty much a guaranteed goal. No one can say Messi is one of these people. Those who seem to love Messi just dont seem to appreciate the cuthroatness or ruthlessness of sport to win and dont appreciate those that have always displayed a clutch mental toughness from the very beginning at the highest levels of sport - like a Tom Brady or Madison Bumgarner or Magic Johnson


You cannot call someone who has won every single trophy in the game a choker. Makes you sound like a hater, implying that Messi lacks mental toughness when the man is one of the greatest winners that football has ever seen.

Are you gonna call Zidane a choker for getting sent off in the World Cup final? Is Cristiano a choker for losing a Euro final to Greece? Or is it just Messi you have an issue with?


Did u just start following Messi because the choking label on him has been around from the very beginning of his international career because too often when the game can be decided on his foot, he fails or worse disappears. Zidane and C. Ronaldo have proven themselves over and over again that they are no chokers. Dude this is a Messi thing. If u dont know what i am talking about, u really have not watched Messi long and should stop.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:23 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
Moses wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
What a damn shame the true GOAT couldnt be ordained as in not the perennial choker Messi but the guy who has the flair of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar without the extravagence and the calm coolness of Messi with the game similar to El Fenomeno R9 Ronaldo. Watching Mbappe was like watching Floyd Mayweather - a young great reach greatness at a young age and knowing the future is unlimited. What a shame he had to lose cause his teammates were not clutch enough. The mental fortitude to step up to the spot 3 times against a great penalty saver in Martinez and bury all his chances. I know a guy who has choked way too often on penalties and his name is Messi.


I always feel like a person who can’t appreciate Messi is one who doesn’t really see the true beauty of the game.

Perhaps you’d feel differently if you’d taken a penalty in front of a crowd before, I can assure you it isn’t as easy as it looks when you get up there.


You just validated my point as to why guys who dont choke on critical penalties - and there are guys who never seem to miss - are extremely mentally clutch. As in Mbappe. Or how about guys like Zidane, Hierro and Shearer. Some guys just dont miss penalties and when you see these guys step up to the spot - its pretty much a guaranteed goal. No one can say Messi is one of these people. Those who seem to love Messi just dont seem to appreciate the cuthroatness or ruthlessness of sport to win and dont appreciate those that have always displayed a clutch mental toughness from the very beginning at the highest levels of sport - like a Tom Brady or Madison Bumgarner or Magic Johnson


You cannot call someone who has won every single trophy in the game a choker. Makes you sound like a hater, implying that Messi lacks mental toughness when the man is one of the greatest winners that football has ever seen.

Are you gonna call Zidane a choker for getting sent off in the World Cup final? Is Cristiano a choker for losing a Euro final to Greece? Or is it just Messi you have an issue with?


Did u just start following Messi because the choking label on him has been around from the very beginning of his international career because too often when the game can be decided on his foot, he fails or worse disappears. Zidane and C. Ronaldo have proven themselves over and over again that they are no chokers. Dude this is a Messi thing. If u dont know what i am talking about, u really have not watched Messi long and should stop.


Messi who has won EVERY trophy available to him is a choker, but Zidane who got sent off in the biggest game of his career and achieved less than Messi did is clutch, despite only ever scoring 11 pens in his career (he missed 3 too btw). Also you seem to forget when Ronaldo missed a champions league final shootout penalty for United, or does that not suit the narrative because his team mates bailed him out? Same Ronaldo who has never scored a knockout stage goal in 5 world cups, and the same guy who lost to Greece in the 04 final and didn’t really play in the one they won.

Remember that Messi could’ve won the World Cup in 2014 too if not for Higuan missing a very good chance. But that’s probably Messi’s fault though right?

Messi lost some finals before he won the most recent 2.
Ronaldo lost a euros final and has missed 29 penalties in his career.
Zidane got sent off in the World Cup final and they lost.
Messi is no less clutch than the other 2, and has actually won more than either, but because he hasn’t been perfect that somehow means he’s a choker according to you.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject:

The fact that Ronaldo calls himself Ronaldo without having any business calling himself Ronaldo disqualifies him from any achievements discussion. He should be ashamed.

So it is between Messi and Zidane.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:39 am    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
Messi is no less clutch than the other 2, and has actually won more than either, but because he hasn’t been perfect that somehow means he’s a choker according to you.


To be fair, he did say the choking label was a general narrative placed upon Messi from the very beginning of his international career

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because the choking label on him has been around from the very beginning of his international career because too often when the game can be decided on his foot, he fails or worse disappears.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:31 pm    Post subject:

There was a choking label on Messi, really? Did Barcelona not win a crapload of La Liga titles over Real Madrid during his time there? Did Barcelona not win Champions League titles? As for having not won Copa America before the last tournament, I mean, they are up against Brazil for those so it's not like those were gimmes, and he got one of those, and I would think that no one could be labeled a choker if they don't win the World Cup, given how insanely hard that is to do and that you're only 1 of 11 players on the pitch for your country. And even with that, he had still helped Argentina get to a World Cup final in '14. So now he's won a World Cup and been in two World Cup finals, along with all the other stuff he's done. Whether it's team trophies at the highest level, or individual accomplishments like the goal scoring, assisting, and, of course, all the Ballon D'Or wins, he's done it all.

Different question entirely, but where would some of you rank Andrea Pirlo among the all-time great midfielders? Compare him to, say, Iniesta or Xavi? Is Zidane a clear level ahead of these guys? Damn I loved Pirlo.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:36 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
There was a choking label on Messi, really? Did Barcelona not win a crapload of La Liga titles over Real Madrid during his time there? Did Barcelona not win Champions League titles? As for having not won Copa America before the last tournament, I mean, they are up against Brazil for those so it's not like those were gimmes, and he got one of those, and I would think that no one could be labeled a choker if they don't win the World Cup, given how insanely hard that is to do and that you're only 1 of 11 players on the pitch for your country. And even with that, he had still helped Argentina get to a World Cup final in '14. So now he's won a World Cup and been in two World Cup finals, along with all the other stuff he's done. Whether it's team trophies at the highest level, or individual accomplishments like the goal scoring, assisting, and, of course, all the Ballon D'Or wins, he's done it all.

Different question entirely, but where would some of you rank Andrea Pirlo among the all-time great midfielders? Compare him to, say, Iniesta or Xavi? Is Zidane a clear level ahead of these guys? Damn I loved Pirlo.


I love Pirlo, personally would say he’s the worst of the 4 mentioned, I’d rank ZZ, then Iniesta, then Xavi. Think Scholes and Gerrard deserve to be in that conversation too, as elite midfielders of previous generation.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:17 am    Post subject:

Meanwhile over at USA soccer, more drama.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gio-reynas-parents-revealed-gregg-berhalters-past-domestic-violence-incident-to-us-soccer-183856786.html

Blackmail, domestic violence allegations, somebody bring the popcorn.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:08 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Meanwhile over at USA soccer, more drama.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gio-reynas-parents-revealed-gregg-berhalters-past-domestic-violence-incident-to-us-soccer-183856786.html

Blackmail, domestic violence allegations, somebody bring the popcorn.


For those saying that Gio Reyna's mother (and Claudio Reyna's wife) shouldn't have went to US Soccer with this, well, (bleep) for tat, Mr. Berhalter. Perhaps he shouldn't have smeared Gio Reyna so publicly. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Berhalter.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:04 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Meanwhile over at USA soccer, more drama.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gio-reynas-parents-revealed-gregg-berhalters-past-domestic-violence-incident-to-us-soccer-183856786.html

Blackmail, domestic violence allegations, somebody bring the popcorn.


For those saying that Gio Reyna's mother (and Claudio Reyna's wife) shouldn't have went to US Soccer with this, well, (bleep) for tat, Mr. Berhalter. Perhaps he shouldn't have smeared Gio Reyna so publicly. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Berhalter.


Looks like they are already searching for the next USMNT team coach to babysit Gio. Zidane already turned down the job.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-zindeine-zidane-offered-rejected-215332269.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:08 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Meanwhile over at USA soccer, more drama.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/gio-reynas-parents-revealed-gregg-berhalters-past-domestic-violence-incident-to-us-soccer-183856786.html

Blackmail, domestic violence allegations, somebody bring the popcorn.


For those saying that Gio Reyna's mother (and Claudio Reyna's wife) shouldn't have went to US Soccer with this, well, (bleep) for tat, Mr. Berhalter. Perhaps he shouldn't have smeared Gio Reyna so publicly. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Berhalter.


Looks like they are already searching for the next USMNT team coach to babysit Gio. Zidane already turned down the job.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-zindeine-zidane-offered-rejected-215332269.html


I like that they are going after someone who is qualified for the position, at least. The 2026 World Cup will be our most anticipated ever, as the host and with our most talented roster to date, by far. It would be nice if we didn't have a jackass in charge.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:37 pm    Post subject:

Gareth Bale announces his retirement. Only 33. Thought he would have had some time left, but I guess not.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:50 pm    Post subject:

He was never technically gifted, but relied heavily on speed in open space. As many great games as he had, he had as many when he was practically invisible for the whole game because he couldn't contribute when the game slow down and space tightened. Then a bunch of injuries slowed him down, and he had nothing to offer. Many Madrid fans began to hate him in the last few years because he got paid huge money to sit on the bench, seemingly not caring at all.

He had a good career.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:18 pm    Post subject:

Bale only has a few years left of hitting 300+ yard drives. Doesn’t want to waste his golfing prime on the soccer pitch.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Pack your bags we're headed to Saudi Arabia for the 2034 World Cup. They won because they were the only one to put a bid in.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38784504/australia-bid-2034-fifa-world-cup
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 4:29 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
He was never technically gifted, but relied heavily on speed in open space. As many great games as he had, he had as many when he was practically invisible for the whole game because he couldn't contribute when the game slow down and space tightened. Then a bunch of injuries slowed him down, and he had nothing to offer. Many Madrid fans began to hate him in the last few years because he got paid huge money to sit on the bench, seemingly not caring at all.

He had a good career.


He had one of the best scissor kick goals I have ever seen in a big match, I think it was the 2018 UEFA Final vs. Liverpool.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:18 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Pack your bags we're headed to Saudi Arabia for the 2034 World Cup. They won because they were the only one to put a bid in.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38784504/australia-bid-2034-fifa-world-cup


Come for the World Cup, Stay for the Public Beheadings!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:10 pm    Post subject:

4 of the titans of Asian Cup going head to head in the quarterfinals with the other (Saudi Arabia) already knocked out by one of the other Titans (South Korea)

Really looking like a South Korea vs Japan final which when all the cards are down and important games are to be played, South Korea almost ALWAYS beats Japan in soccer. Historically South Korea 53 Wins, Japan 15 Wins head to head. South Korea - quite possibly the best defender in the world - Kim Min Jae of Bayern Munich, two of the top attackers in Premier League - Son Heung Min of Tottenham and Hwang Hee Chan of Wolverhampton, and this is not even including the best player in Korea right now, PSG wonderkid playmaker Lee Kang In. Japan has European-based club players all over their starting lineup and overall balance-wise, Japan has the most talent. None of Japan's players though can match the top-end talent of Korea Republic.

And possibly the 2 most important aspects to why South Korea almost always beats Japan. 1. Mentality - Koreans will not accept defeat to Japan in major soccer events under any circumstance. The backlash Korean players will get for losing to Japan will be far harsher than the other way around and EVERYONE knows it for obvious historical reasons. 2. Physicality - Koreans are bigger than the Japanese and it really shows in these matchups and this combined with a greater desire to win. Korea very often bullies the Japanese players for this reason. In this Asian Cup, Japan again shows this same susceptibility to physical play as Iraq's offensive strategy was very simple (kick it into the box) and Japan still struggled and lost to Iraq in the group stage.

But Japan does have their own advantages: They are a better balanced team overall and their head coach Moriyasu is in my opinion much better at his job than Klinsmann is at his running Korea currently because Moriyasu knows his team far better than the experimenting Klinsmann. Also in recent events (admittedly Friendlies) Japan has beaten Korea in the most two recent encounters 3-0 so they have that going for them as well in terms of confidence.

Ultimately though I do think it will be Korea-Japan final and I do see Korea decisively beating Japan. I actually think Korea has three other advantages that Japan will struggle with. 1. Cho Gue Sung - Scored the decisive goal to tie Saudi Arabia and buried his PK - he is exactly the type of player Japanese defenders struggle with. 2. Goalkeeping - Jo Hyeon Woo is a proven keeper who excels at penalty stopping and was the hero who allowed Korea to beat Germany in 2018 World Cup. Once again, he showed his penalty stopping excellence blocking two of Saudi's penalties, both of whom were decently struck. This guy rises in big occasions unlike the Korean keeper of the 2010 and 2014 World Cups Jung Sung Ryong. On the other hand, Zion Suzuki is very shaky in goal right now for Japan. He literally let in 3 goals so far in the tournament that an in-form top keeper would not have let in. 3. Distractions - Korea is desperate to end the 64 year drought of the Asian Cup and this is one of Son's last chance to win a major trophy for his country. On the other hand, Japanese players were griping about this tourney and right now lost Ito due to a sexual harrassment case. Korean players are for sure more motivated on the whole to win. Japan has won this 4 times, Korea feels they need to win their 3rd and first since 1960.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:52 am    Post subject:

Japan loses in almost exactly the same way they have always lost when they lose: By being bullied and ultimately by being soft. Sardar Azmoun finally shows up in a big game for his country and shows his class as the top #9 in Asia (which admittedly isn't saying a whole lot)

Australia is really good....had the Koreans beat with their best in continent defense and gameplay but the lack of clinical finishing that has been their weakness since Tim Cahill left is what really does them in. The individual brilliance of Son Heung Min and Lee Kang In show up again. Australia is the best and most stable team in the Asian Cup...but like how they lost today, they would have lost eventually in this Asian Cup because its not just South Korea with that something extra in mentality. Iran has that too right now.

A potential South Korea-Iran in the finals would be a classic. Whereas Korea almost always beats Japan, Korea historically is a 50-50 proposition with Iran. But the recent head to head matchups between these two sides do favor Korea due to the talent advantage of the Koreans.

If Korea played this Japan, they would have absolutely annihiliated Japan similar to the 2012 Olympics. Tomiyasu (who was OK for the most part) and especially Itakura (Complete trash) would have been figurately raped by Son, Cho and Hwang. Favorites my ass....Japan is the darling of asian football and was a lot of people's second favorite team following the last 2 World Cups. But Japan was badly exposed in this match similar to Felix Trinidad who was undefeated but really should have lost and got exposed by De La Hoya and completely undone by Hopkins. This Japan would have lost to any of the other 4 Asian titans.
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