PISTONS -at- LAKERS - 11-18-22 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:02 pm    Post subject: PISTONS -at- LAKERS - 11-18-22 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

Win Streak... I’ll take it.

The Lakers gave up a boatload of points to the Pistons in the first quarter like they do (37-30).

They fell back by 13 points in the second quarter as the Pistons were just out there having fun with little resistance early on. Ham then rotated in some energy/hustle guys and found a Bryant/Gabriel/Reaves/Russ unit that helped rally them back. They would take the lead with 3 minutes left.

With a dunk in transition from Lonnie followed by a three at the buzzer shortly later, he helped the Lakers lead 68-64 at the half. The Lakers had 15 assists in the quarter, the highest of an NBA team this season. So the classic second quarter comeback by the Lakers this season. They’ve consistently played their best ball of the season for stretches in this quarter.

With the third quarter coming up, you hoped the pattern they’ve played with out of halftime wouldn’t hold. It wasn’t a pretty quarter as the refs blew the whistles with regularity, including some techs, but the Lakers escaped with a 1-point lead heading into the fourth.

In the fourth, the Lakers got a scoring burst from Reaves early on and then Walker again got the ball in his hands to help orchestrate the close. A lot of pressure on the paint with him and AD going toward the rim and it led to buckets or freethrows.

“It’s beautiful to watch him grow before our eyes even more,” Ham said of Lonnie after the 128-121 win.

Anthony Davis is the first Laker since Shaq in 2000 to put up back-to-back 35+ point and 15+ rebound games.


Davis -- -- Back-to-back big games. He got the Pistons into the penalty early on in this one, sending his defenders to the bench and AD to the line. He took 11 freethrows in the first half. That’s usually a good sign for AD and means he’s being aggressive. He ended up with 16 points on 6 FGAs in that first half. The second half was another 10 trips to the line. Great job getting downhill and on the roll. This wasn’t a game of a lot of postups if you noticed. It was a lot on the move and a lot of finishing off passes. Guys are finding him more. That was the bigger issue I felt in AD’s quiet second halves earlier in the season. Our guard play with him was just very poor. I think he had about 3 midrange shots and 1 three attempt in this game, everything else was at the rim. Defensively, he had 4 blocks, but still looked a little passive again on some challenges and you could see him saying “my bad” on those. The Stats: He scored 38 points on 10-16 shooting (0-1 from three, 18-21 from the line) to go with 16 boards (2 offensive), 2 assists, 1 steal, 4 blocks, 4 turnovers and 3 fouls in 34 minutes. He was a +4.

Walker IV -- -- A couple electric plays to end the half. One he took a long outlet and dunked with both hands over a challenge at the rim. The other was a corner three at the buzzer off a long inbounds from Russ in the backcourt. He had 9 points on 3-4 shooting. Again, we saw Walker with the ball in his hands late in the game during winning time. He hit a pull up from the freethrow line. He attacked a seam and drew FTs. He found Brown cutting baseline for a layup. He then worked the two-man action with AD and fed him for a layup. This forced a Pistons timeout as the Lakers went up 10 with 4 minutes left. After the timeout, he set up AD for a dunk on the two-man game.The Stats: He scored 17 points on 6-13 shooting (1-4 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 1 board, 3 assists, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 34 minutes. He was a +0.

Beverley -- -- Not a great first half, getting scored on by Bogdanovic on crossovers and whatnot. Pat did get a block in on one challenge, but no one was feeling him other than that. He had a play where he didn’t box out and his man went around him for a putback. He’d knock down a corner three for his only make. Pretty subpar night. He’d give up a tech trying to show the refs that he thought Bogdanovic flopped on him. Team played better when he wasn’t on the floor. The Stats: He scored 4 points on 1-3 shooting from three (1-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 2 assists, 1 block, 3 turnovers and 5 fouls in 25 minutes. He was a-2.

Reaves -- -- He was a team-high +14 in the first half. With no LeBron or JTA, we had Reaves in at PF during rotations in this one. That was tough, but he’s just competing out there and not making things easy. The Lakers needed more of that from some of their guys early on. As they fell back big in the first half, they went to those energy/hustle guys like Reaves and the Lakers rallied back. We just needed more Lakers not letting their opponents have fun out there. He helped turn that around early. Another key stretch, we sat AD/Russ early in the fourth and Reaves kind of took over for a series of scores to give the Lakers an 8-2 start to the quarter to force a timeout. “I was just trying to play basketball. That’s what I do,” he said of that stretch. He’s so underrated on iso plays because he’s not super athletic. He’s just got a lot of craftiness to his game, whether it’s the handle or up-fakes or bodying someone to earn FTs. The stats tonight, just super efficient, either scoring or making the right plays with no turnovers. Defensively, I think he forced a couple of airballs with challenges tonight and altered other shots, even guys he wasn’t the primary defender on. The Stats: He scored 16 points on 5-8 shooting (2-4 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 6 assists, 1 block and 2 fouls in 36 minutes. He was a +14.

Brown -- -- Quiet night from Brown, but he still ended up with 8 points on extremely low usage. He had an And-1 bank early on as he attacked down the lane. He sank a three on a kickout from Russ. In the fourth, again he snuck along that baseline and Lonnie found him on a drive for a layup. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 3-5 shooting (1-2 from three, 1-1 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 1 assists, 1 steal and 4 fouls in 18 minutes. He was a -2.

Westbrook -- -- Russ had 10 assists in the first half. A couple nice ones to Gabriel as those two showed some chemistry (once finding him slipping a screen for an And-1, and another dunk on the break). He also found his bigs with post entries under the hoop for scores. He hit Bryant with a nice lob from a tough angle on the break. He and Walker teamed up a couple times, including a sideline inbounds from the backcourt to the front left corner where Lonnie hit the three at the buzzer. He was a +10 in his 17 first half minutes. Less impact in the second half statwise, but ihs pressure on the rim helped guys like Wenyen clean up the misses with easy putbacks. We had him out there to close, but the ball was in Lonnie’s hands quite a bit. Overall, quality game from Russ, especially helping dig us out of that first half hole. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 4-13 shooting (0-2 from three, 2-3 from the line) to go with 5 boards, 12 assists, 4 turnovers and 2 fouls in 30 minutes. He was a +11.

Schröder -- -- Good to have him back in the mix. It will likely take him more time than Bryant to get into the flow as guards have to organize the offense more. He hit just one shot, an elbow pull-up working off the screen. We had him on the much bigger Bogdanovic defensively at times. They started to double that in the fourth quarter to give Dennis some help. Nice to see Ham change things up a little. Dennis gives the Lakers some ball pressure to help eat up some clock before the opponent gets into their sets. Hopefully, he can find his comfort zone soon. The Stats: He scored 2 points on 1-5 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 2 assists, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 16 minutes. He was a +0.

Bryant -- -- Good first half shift from Bryant. He was giving the team some energy and size in the paint. Nice finishing around the rim as he hit a jumphook, a layup rolling to the rim, backed his man down for a layup and dunked a lob in transition from Russ. He had 8 points in 8 minutes and was a +4. In the second half, we ran him a bit across from AD to give us a bigger lineup. No scoring in that second half. He also got whistled for a flagrant-1 that resulted in a big 5-point possession for the Pistons. It wasn’t malicious, just a challenge that caught the mouth. Love having him in the mix as we have had to play some really small lineups up to this point in the season. Hopefully, he can find that three ball. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 4-6 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 5 boards, 1 block and 2 fouls in 13 minutes. He was a +8.

Nunn -- -- We ran a lot of zone tonight. Nunn still looked pretty awful in that defensively. Offensively, he had some nice moments were he was very much under control and working his way into good looks on the floor. Easily his best game of the season as he knocked down a couple threes, scored a layup and hit an elbow jumper. Hopefully, the law of averages catches up and we see more efficiency like this. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 4-4 shooting (2-2 from the line) to go with 1 board, 1 assist, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 15 minutes. He was a -1.

Gabriel -- -- Season high tonight for Wenyen. He does a lot of little things out there that show hoop IQ. Good first half with 7 points on 3-3 shooting. Russ found him slipping a screen, and Gabriel scored a reverse And-1. He filled the lane for a dunk on the break. He attacked from the corner, switched hands around a defender and scored the lefty layup. In the second half, he had a putback jam off the Russ dribble penetration miss. He would dunk another Russ drive that got blocked. Pressure on the rim allows our bigs to clean up. Wenyen also had a flagrant called when he was yanked down. He made everything he took. Super clean night. The Stats: He scored 15 points on 5-5 shooting (5-5 from the line) to go with 7 boards (3 offensive), 1 turnover and 1 foul in 18 minutes. He was a +3.

Ham -- -- Key Moment: There were a couple of stretches in the fourth quarter where we leaned on others instead of LeBron/Russ to help close. One was a stretch by Reaves early in the quarter where he helped extend a lead. The bigger stretch was when we put the ball in Lonnie’s hands again to bring us home off the two-man action and rim pressure. He chewed up the defense efficiently, setting up AD and others. When he missed, AD was there to dunk it in. Second W with that formula in the fourth quarter.

Key Substitution: A lot of good bench play, but I wanted to highlight some of Ham’s usage of size in this game. We had ultra small lineups with Reaves at PF early on. Later in the game, we ran bigger lineups including an AD/Bryant lineup. Some good moments defensively for AD with Bryant at the C and AD roaming a bit more and some moments with good perimeter D during that. That’s where he’s at his best.

Key Stats: Freethrows. So many tonight. The Lakers shot 35-40. The Pistons were no slouch with a 24-32 themselves. That’s 72 FTs. It made for some slower, choppy ball for sure. The refs were on fire with flagrants, techs, and all kinds of fouls from start to finish.

Coach’s Challenge: The Pistons lost a charge/block challenge 5 minutes into the game. Lakers didn’t use theirs again.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Nice write up... With DS and Bryant back... Nunn looking like the odd man out when Lebron returns.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject:

What a complete shift watching Westbrook this year compared to last year.. I saw a couple of easy lay ups that he made he would have missed last year... major props to Westbrook for his new level of play.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:27 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB! Great to see another win!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 3:03 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB! Winning is good
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:02 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:02 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:42 am    Post subject:

Welp AD is clearly better as 1a with this team.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:58 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:00 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
What a complete shift watching Westbrook this year compared to last year.. I saw a couple of easy lay ups that he made he would have missed last year... major props to Westbrook for his new level of play.

critics when he deserved it
PRAISES when he deserves it!!!

GO BRODIE!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:33 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
What a complete shift watching Westbrook this year compared to last year.. I saw a couple of easy lay ups that he made he would have missed last year... major props to Westbrook for his new level of play.

critics when he deserved it
PRAISES when he deserves it!!!

GO BRODIE!

His value is playmaking, especially with lebron out. He has set up his teammates really well especially our bigs. However, with play making, there will be some TOs which I don’t mind. If lebron is not playing, i am ok with him closing over pat bev

He was only 4/13 last night, and I didn’t even feel it. RB/TB/WENYEN/REAVES/NUNN, that lineup brought us back in the 2nd quarter.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:23 am    Post subject:

THANKS DB!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:33 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
What a complete shift watching Westbrook this year compared to last year.. I saw a couple of easy lay ups that he made he would have missed last year... major props to Westbrook for his new level of play.

critics when he deserved it
PRAISES when he deserves it!!!

GO BRODIE!

Unfortunately the energy wasn’t the same for others.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: PISTONS -at- LAKERS - 11-18-22 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
Key Substitution: A lot of good bench play, but I wanted to highlight some of Ham’s usage of size in this game. We had ultra small lineups with Reaves at PF early on. Later in the game, we ran bigger lineups including an AD/Bryant lineup. Some good moments defensively for AD with Bryant at the C and AD roaming a bit more and some moments with good perimeter D during that. That’s where he’s at his best.

Despite the win, this was also the main thing I noticed in the game. The entire 1st quarter was a lineup of AD with four guys 6'6" and under (guard-sized), and we gave up 37 points in that span to one of the worst 1st quarter scoring teams in the league according to a graphic they put on the screen.

Ham started the 2nd quarter with Bryant and Gabriel in the front court, and later paired AD with Gabriel, which helps. But he also decided to have Nunn, Schroder and Beverly play together - all of whom are barely over six feet tall - and we started paying for that defensively.

The Lakers giving up 121 total points is a terrible indictment of our defense, with the small size (especially with no Lebron) being a huge part of that. To be fair, this nonsense of not being able to consistently put out bigger lineups is not totally Ham's fault. If Pelinka continues to pile all of these 6'6" and under players on the squad (there are ten of 'em), what can the coach do?

More defensive forwards of legit size needed, Rob!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Nice write up... With DS and Bryant back... Nunn looking like the odd man out when Lebron returns.


Surely you mean Bev. Nunn may very well be the odd man out but it didn't look like that last night for him but is did continue to look as if Bev should be.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:09 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
governator wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
What a complete shift watching Westbrook this year compared to last year.. I saw a couple of easy lay ups that he made he would have missed last year... major props to Westbrook for his new level of play.

critics when he deserved it
PRAISES when he deserves it!!!

GO BRODIE!

His value is playmaking, especially with lebron out. He has set up his teammates really well especially our bigs. However, with play making, there will be some TOs which I don’t mind. If lebron is not playing, i am ok with him closing over pat bev

He was only 4/13 last night, and I didn’t even feel it. RB/TB/WENYEN/REAVES/NUNN, that lineup brought us back in the 2nd quarter.


Yeah, the 4-13 probably felt more like a 6 or 7-13 because of the dribble penetration. We got some putbacks on those misses, so successful possessions.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: PISTONS -at- LAKERS - 11-18-22 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

joeblow wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Key Substitution: A lot of good bench play, but I wanted to highlight some of Ham’s usage of size in this game. We had ultra small lineups with Reaves at PF early on. Later in the game, we ran bigger lineups including an AD/Bryant lineup. Some good moments defensively for AD with Bryant at the C and AD roaming a bit more and some moments with good perimeter D during that. That’s where he’s at his best.

Despite the win, this was also the main thing I noticed in the game. The entire 1st quarter was a lineup of AD with four guys 6'6" and under (guard-sized), and we gave up 37 points in that span to one of the worst 1st quarter scoring teams in the league according to a graphic they put on the screen.

Ham started the 2nd quarter with Bryant and Gabriel in the front court, and later paired AD with Gabriel, which helps. But he also decided to have Nunn, Schroder and Beverly play together - all of whom are barely over six feet tall - and we started paying for that defensively.

The Lakers giving up 121 total points is a terrible indictment of our defense, with the small size (especially with no Lebron) being a huge part of that. To be fair, this nonsense of not being able to consistently put out bigger lineups is not totally Ham's fault. If Pelinka continues to pile all of these 6'6" and under players on the squad (there are ten of 'em), what can the coach do?

More defensive forwards of legit size needed, Rob!


I don't think the issue is us having guys who are 6'6" out on the court. It's that we don't have enough of those guys at the moment. JTA/LeBron out due to injury. And, Christie out due to health/safety protocols. The only wings with size left are Troy and Reaves. All our other available wings are either 6'4" or under. Matt Ryan has size, but subpar defense. Hamm is doing the best with what he has. When the team gets healthier, we'll hopefully see less, to none, of those 4 guard lineups.

Also, it would be great if the Lakers could turn Bev into a trade piece for another decent wing with size. Or, maybe even try for Stanley Johnson, when he becomes available for resigning. Scour the FA market, too, for any hopefuls.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: PISTONS -at- LAKERS - 11-18-22 - Thoughts and :-)) Ratings

sonic the laker wrote:
joeblow wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Key Substitution: A lot of good bench play, but I wanted to highlight some of Ham’s usage of size in this game. We had ultra small lineups with Reaves at PF early on. Later in the game, we ran bigger lineups including an AD/Bryant lineup. Some good moments defensively for AD with Bryant at the C and AD roaming a bit more and some moments with good perimeter D during that. That’s where he’s at his best.

Despite the win, this was also the main thing I noticed in the game. The entire 1st quarter was a lineup of AD with four guys 6'6" and under (guard-sized), and we gave up 37 points in that span to one of the worst 1st quarter scoring teams in the league according to a graphic they put on the screen.

Ham started the 2nd quarter with Bryant and Gabriel in the front court, and later paired AD with Gabriel, which helps. But he also decided to have Nunn, Schroder and Beverly play together - all of whom are barely over six feet tall - and we started paying for that defensively.

The Lakers giving up 121 total points is a terrible indictment of our defense, with the small size (especially with no Lebron) being a huge part of that. To be fair, this nonsense of not being able to consistently put out bigger lineups is not totally Ham's fault. If Pelinka continues to pile all of these 6'6" and under players on the squad (there are ten of 'em), what can the coach do?

More defensive forwards of legit size needed, Rob!


I don't think the issue is us having guys who are 6'6" out on the court. It's that we don't have enough of those guys at the moment. JTA/LeBron out due to injury. And, Christie out due to health/safety protocols. The only wings with size left are Troy and Reaves. All our other available wings are either 6'4" or under. Matt Ryan has size, but subpar defense. Hamm is doing the best with what he has. When the team gets healthier, we'll hopefully see less, to none, of those 4 guard lineups.

Also, it would be great if the Lakers could turn Bev into a trade piece for another decent wing with size. Or, maybe even try for Stanley Johnson, when he becomes available for resigning. Scour the FA market, too, for any hopefuls.


JTA = 6'6"
Christie = 6'6"

Neither one is the size of a traditional forward, so they are not the answer. We had Kuzma and M. Morris at 6'9" each as our supporting forwards when we won it all. They had the defensive size and length that's been sorely lacking with the Lakers for the past two seasons.

Also, I did make the point of not blaming coach Ham at the end of my write-up:

"To be fair, this nonsense of not being able to consistently put out bigger lineups is not totally Ham's fault. If Pelinka continues to pile all of these 6'6" and under players on the squad (there are ten of 'em), what can the coach do?

More defensive forwards of legit size needed, Rob!
"
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Last edited by joeblow on Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:11 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB! I think beyond his actual production, Bryant could help us the way Andrew Bynum did back in the day by allowing AD to play many minutes at the 4, as well as preventing Gabriel from having to play the 5 and preventing Troy Brown/JTA from having to play the 4.

When you're undersized, like in the case of Gabriel, his great energy and effort will only get him so far when he's going up against guys who are bigger, more athletic and more skilled than him.

You can't be successful when guys are playing out of position.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Thanks DB! I think beyond his actual production, Bryant could help us the way Andrew Bynum did back in the day by allowing AD to play many minutes at the 4, as well as preventing Gabriel from having to play the 5 and preventing Troy Brown/JTA from having to play the 4.

When you're undersized, like in the case of Gabriel, his great energy and effort will only get him so far when he's going up against guys who are bigger, more athletic and more skilled than him.

You can't be successful when guys are playing out of position.

I agree, except I'd rather have Troy and JTA playing as big 2s instead of small 3s. The idea would be to be big and athletic at every position like we were in 2020 to twin it all. We'll need more true-sized defensive forwards for that (preferably 6'8" - 6'10").

Too bad John Collins is not on the table for us since his team is trying to move him. However, if the rumors of the Jazz being interested in getting him are true, maybe they'll let us take Jared Vanderbilt off their hands?
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