We are running like a well oiled machine without Lebron
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:09 am    Post subject:

Wait until a team takes away want we want to do. That is when the starts shine. See Curry in the finals last year.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Given how polarizing a player he is, it's hard to know when these are convenient shots or honest discussion. That said, I think it's a combination of LeBron's lack of rim pressure and us playing awful teams missing key players.


Tomorrow’s game should tell us rather the last 3 wins was something to build on or it was just the Lakers getting caught with teams that were dealing with issues.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject:

I’m glad somebody said it. It should be obvious to anyone with a decent set of eyeballs, but I get it….can’t say anything negative about the self-proclaimed goat.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:11 am    Post subject:

I wouldn’t go that far because as some have mentioned it’s a myriad of factors, but I’ll say this:

Guys like Beal, Durant and Lebron need to get with the modern NBA. Yes the ISO ball plays a role in the playoffs, but ball movement is the name of the game now.

So basically, Lebron needs to fit in to this ball movement and AD being the number 1 option.

I actually think this team is at its best when Reaves is on ball because he can read the floor like Lebron, but also has the legs to drive and dish.

Lebron doesn’t have the legs anymore to consistently drive and find open man. He has become a ball stopper because he dribble dribbles and is forced to Chuck up a late shot clock 3.

Let Reaves run the point and have Lebron be that slashing off ball wing when you create the advantages with AD.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:26 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Given how polarizing a player he is, it's hard to know when these are convenient shots or honest discussion. That said, I think it's a combination of LeBron's lack of rim pressure and us playing awful teams missing key players.


The bad teams are helping the narrative. But the fact that James is a focal point of any team he steps on the floor with is unavoidable. The man is an icon and pretty damn good player still. Just not the same as he is slowing down as the wear and tear of 65K career mins are adding up.

Lebron-centric offenses have excelled for 20 yrs because of Lebron. As he slips, settles or slows down a step on drives it creates a problem. He is still Lebron F’n James. Still the man you give the ball to to run the offense. Still the focal point every time he steps on the court.

That will not change until he retires. Players will continue to defer to him. Fans and media will still see the legacy instead of the current reality. When he returns from this most recent rest, the flow will go back to the same old habits. Davis will be bum again and the James iso game will re-emerge. Hopefully he leaves the logo 3’s to the professional shooters at least.

The Lakers missed the opportunity to progress past this dynamic when they chose not to trade him last summer and gave him a max extension. Too late to correct this mistake now.


^^^This.^^^ I've pretty much said the same thing myself. And, I've heard others echo the same sentiments. Our only realistic hope is that LeBron see's what's happening, and gets with the program. Instead of being a virus and corrupting everything. Also, if Hamm is truly about "Facts over Feelings" he'll step up and let LeBron know what the deal is. Easier said than done, when dealing with a player of LeBron's stature. But, there it is.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject:

Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:45 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.


I think if LBJ is deployed like Kawhi... limited minutes with more days off he can be very effective.

I think if he insists on playing 35 minutes that there won't be a good result in terms of his health and probably winning.

Kobe was extremely good until his Achilles... after that not so much.

This is LBJ's version of the Achilles, except it's just old age.

I get we barely beat Detroit without Cade... but at least we aren't getting blown out in the third quarter.

Right now that's progress.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject:

Lakerfan 4 Life wrote:
We used to hear the same thing on LG about Kobe when he missed games.


vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:56 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.


Thing is, this isn't "spur of the moment narrative". And, trying to compare Kobe's game to LeBron's is like trying to compare apples and oranges. Yes, both were ball dominant. But, like MJ, Kobe worked within a system; the triangle offense. LeBron's system is...LeBron. That's not a clown, because no matter how one feels about it, it worked. When LeBron was LEBRON. That's not the case anymore. And, continuing to try to play a system of ball that is clearly to the detriment of the team is just bad.

That's not to say that LeBron won't have good nights, here and there. But, if you're sacrificing the health of the team, to appease one dude, there's a problem. These role players are better than most people made believed. That didn't show until they got some chemistry under their belt, and the green light to be there best selves. And, that's the difference, imo. When LeBron is playing, he's not asking players to be their best selves. He's just asking them to be good enough, so HE can be HIS best self. When it works, LeBron gets all the credit. And, when that doesn't work, they get all the blame. That dynamic has got to change.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:12 am    Post subject:

@BIL: yeah I totally agree with that. Bron’s minutes were way too high when he was playing and whether it was AD’s back or some combination of the quality of teams we faced earlier, but you could see those 2 fade as the game wore on.

It really says something about the roster when we have such low expectations to the point we are looking way too deep into wins against Detroit/SA. It really is a crime what we’ve done with those 2.

Just get them to May with plenty left in the tank and give ‘em a chance. That’s all I’m asking for haha.

We got young legs and during the regular season we will continue to face teams embracing the Wemby tank. I hope this squad can keep running through those teams without overly relying on those 2. That’s my expectation at least and if that happens I expect our duo to do work when it really matters (and when matchups matter) and let the ‘chips fall where they May.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:44 am    Post subject:

the team is moving the ball extremely well without Lebron, there is no sticking hands on offense. Lebron being one of the best passer of all time and one of the smartest players ever should see that. i hope he can come back and adopt the new offense. Lebron holding the ball for 8 second offense can't happen again. we've been playing great offense for the past 2 weeks, even in losses.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:56 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Given how polarizing a player he is, it's hard to know when these are convenient shots or honest discussion. That said, I think it's a combination of LeBron's lack of rim pressure and us playing awful teams missing key players.

It's not hard for me to figure out what this thread is, at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:02 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
the team is moving the ball extremely well without Lebron, there is no sticking hands on offense. Lebron being one of the best passer of all time and one of the smartest players ever should see that. i hope he can come back and adopt the new offense. Lebron holding the ball for 8 second offense can't happen again. we've been playing great offense for the past 2 weeks, even in losses.


Playing great offense? I don't know about that. We played four defense-challenged teams: the Kings, Nets, Pistons, and Spurs. The Pistons, Spurs, and Kings are 3 of the 4 bottom teams in the league in DRtg. The Nets are a little better, but they looked uninterested that night. My impression during all of those games was that the opposing defenses weren't going to do much to get in our way.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.


I think if LBJ is deployed like Kawhi... limited minutes with more days off he can be very effective.

I think if he insists on playing 35 minutes that there won't be a good result in terms of his health and probably winning.

Kobe was extremely good until his Achilles... after that not so much.

This is LBJ's version of the Achilles, except it's just old age.

I get we barely beat Detroit without Cade... but at least we aren't getting blown out in the third quarter.

Right now that's progress.


It's not just the 3rd quarters, although that's legit. Am I the only one seeing how "alive" Reeves and AD are? Lonnie, too. These guys weren't balling like they are now when Lebron was in there. I'm not necessarily blaming Lebron, but it's not out of line to say that some of our players are playing much better with Lebron out. Maybe it's on those players, I don't know. But Lebron is still in the middle of it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:42 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.


I think if LBJ is deployed like Kawhi... limited minutes with more days off he can be very effective.

I think if he insists on playing 35 minutes that there won't be a good result in terms of his health and probably winning.

Kobe was extremely good until his Achilles... after that not so much.

This is LBJ's version of the Achilles, except it's just old age.

I get we barely beat Detroit without Cade... but at least we aren't getting blown out in the third quarter.

Right now that's progress.


It's not just the 3rd quarters, although that's legit. Am I the only one seeing how "alive" Reeves and AD are? Lonnie, too. These guys weren't balling like they are now when Lebron was in there. I'm not necessarily blaming Lebron, but it's not out of line to say that some of our players are playing much better with Lebron out. Maybe it's on those players, I don't know. But Lebron is still in the middle of it.

I mean, these other guys that create offense are going to have less opportunities if Lebron James is playing. It's not their fault and it's not Lebron's fault either, frankly, but a byproduct of roster construction. We have a glut of okay shot creators that are going to look worse when there's less need for shot creation.

I'm mostly keeping an eye on Austin when Lebron comes back, because I think he's one of our most promising all-around offensive players that can transition from creator to finisher seamlessly, and be a second-side playmaker. I'm also hoping Beverley gets his shot to a confident place again, because he's been doing great secondary and tertiary playmaking. These are the kinds of players you need around two superstars.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:52 am    Post subject:

The Lakers have had a nice little run against some of the worst teams in the league. Not sure that really means anything other than a very pleasant schedule.

In any case, we're not going anywhere without Lebron. That's not to say we'll go anywhere with him. But if the Lakers end up doing anything this year, Lebron will be the guy leading the way.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
The Lakers have had a nice little run against some of the worst teams in the league. Not sure that really means anything other than a very pleasant schedule.

In any case, we're not going anywhere without Lebron. That's not to say we'll go anywhere with him. But if the Lakers end up doing anything this year, Lebron will be the guy leading the way.

We showed flashes earlier against better comp. Bron has led us to the lottery twice. To your point we aren’t going anywhere, but the objective is to stay out of top 10 in lottery.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
activeverb wrote:
The Lakers have had a nice little run against some of the worst teams in the league. Not sure that really means anything other than a very pleasant schedule.

In any case, we're not going anywhere without Lebron. That's not to say we'll go anywhere with him. But if the Lakers end up doing anything this year, Lebron will be the guy leading the way.

We showed flashes earlier against better comp. Bron has led us to the lottery twice. To your point we aren’t going anywhere, but the objective is to stay out of top 10 in lottery.


We don't have a chance to stay out of the lottery without Lebron and AD playing at a high level -- that is unless the league changes the schedule so that the only teams we face from here on out are Detroit and the Spurs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Players have been playing with more confidence without him. Not to mention coming off the bench we get to watch Westbrook try to be the actual point guard when it comes to getting people involved.

Again, LeBron CAN help this team, but not when he's hawking at the three point line and jacking up threes like he's Steph as he winds the shot clock down. Not when AD is going off in the first half and then never gets the ball in the 2nd half while LeBron shoots us out of games. Not when AD ISN'T being treated like our best player.

If/when LBJ returns to the team, we need to continue running it like AD is our focal point, not LeBron.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Lakerfan 4 Life wrote:
We used to hear the same thing on LG about Kobe when he missed games.


vasashi17+ wrote:
Talk about a spur of the moment narrative, some of y’all gonna keep that same energy when it’s not Spurs week?

This reminds me off all that Kob talk in how the offense stalled with him in the lineup completely ignoring the walking mismatches these dudes are when it really matters….not in mid November against lottery teams.


Why are you highlighting terrible posts that deserve bans?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 3:13 pm    Post subject:

If Lebron feeds AD the ball like he’s always supposed too, and if Lebron does something he’s never done in his entire career, and that’s actually sacrificing a little bit for the betterment of the team by treating AD as our best player, then he will make the team better.

If he doesn’t, then Lebron will hold the team back. It’s just that simple. Lebron isn’t the best player on the team anymore, let alone best player in the league. And he shouldn’t. AD is in his prime, and Lebron will be 38 soon. Stop chucking stupid 3s and long jump shots, stop with the careless turnovers, and feed AD the damn ball. It’s his time now.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Given how polarizing a player he is, it's hard to know when these are convenient shots or honest discussion. That said, I think it's a combination of LeBron's lack of rim pressure and us playing awful teams missing key players.


The bad teams are helping the narrative. But the fact that James is a focal point of any team he steps on the floor with is unavoidable. The man is an icon and pretty damn good player still. Just not the same as he is slowing down as the wear and tear of 65K career mins are adding up.

Lebron-centric offenses have excelled for 20 yrs because of Lebron. As he slips, settles or slows down a step on drives it creates a problem. He is still Lebron F’n James. Still the man you give the ball to to run the offense. Still the focal point every time he steps on the court.

That will not change until he retires. Players will continue to defer to him. Fans and media will still see the legacy instead of the current reality. When he returns from this most recent rest, the flow will go back to the same old habits. Davis will be bum again and the James iso game will re-emerge. Hopefully he leaves the logo 3’s to the professional shooters at least.

The Lakers missed the opportunity to progress past this dynamic when they chose not to trade him last summer and gave him a max extension. Too late to correct this mistake now.



Lebron isn't the player he was, and I wasn't in favor of the extension. But I prefer to deal with reality: The Lakers did resign him, and he's going to be the main guy for the next couple of years.

AD is going through a nice run against some terrible teams, but he's not the savior. Beating the Spurs, the Pistons, and a crippled Nets team isn't a big aha moment. It just shows how bad the Spurs, the Pistons, and a crippled Nets are, rather than how good we are without Lebron.

My hope is that Lebron returns healthy and he and AD play well together, and make the season palatable. But I am not expecting much from the team the Lakers assembled. It's one thing to look good against the Spurs while Poeltl is out. It's quite another to put together a good run against average and good teams.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:15 pm    Post subject:

We beat two of the worst teams in the league so it proved we're not in thw bottom two. Kudos.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:58 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Obviously we are not a better team without Lebron. But he also has not played well this season even if he has put up stats. Lots of bad possessions and bad shots and bad turnovers at key points of winnable games from Bron this season, similar to what we got from WB. He clearly was not healthy and age has robbed him of looking like a super human even through injury and illness. I just want Bron to take his time and get to 100. This is the best stretch to do it since we will be facing the Spurs twice more. We are getting away without Bron now against some bad teams, but we obviously will need him.
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