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TMG Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 6893
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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I heard Pelinka arranges insane orgies.
That might be the main reason. |
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laker4life Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 7317
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Halflife wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | The lakers downfall began when we traded for AD period. We were bidding against ourselves since AD and his camp made it clear he wouldn’t sign with anywhere but LA and moron Pelinka still managed to overpay for AD. |
I don't see how we can say this. We won a title that first year, and even if you look at the rest of the assets we had at the time.
2020 FRP (Could have drafted Desmond Bane)
2021 FRP (Could have drafted Herbert Jones/Isiah Jackson).
Kuzma (currently averaging 21.8 ppg as a starting 4
KCP (currently shooting 46.8% from 3 point) and has good RPM
Caruso (the Lakers best perimeter defender on 1 or 2 guards)
MLE (2020)
Javale McGee (starting C who fit the defensive system)
We easily could have continued to develop some young talent in the draft and also used the MLE, MMLE well enough to add talent. We eventually would have found players on bargains like Reaves and Walker.
Easily this year's team could be
Bigs: McGee, Davis, Jackson (2021 draft)
Big Wings: Lebron, Kuz,
Smaller Wings: KCP, Bane, Reaves, Walker (6'5 dudes)
Development projects: THT, Christie (also wings)
That's a loaded team with size to compensate for AD injuries (Kuz can step in big time in that role) and you have enough 3nD wings and defenders across the board around Lebron.
The only issue with this set up is that there's an over reliance on Lebron as a PG creator, something they had solved with Rondo in playoff mode, but would have issues with. But as Frank Vogel said when he got hired, Lebron is always the PG of his teams anyway, especially in playoff situations. Offense starts with him having the ball. The PG isn't as important, just like how we would win with guys like Fish/Sasha/Farmar at PG with Kobe at SG. The star has the ball.
What I believe is while the team we had maybe was only good for 1 run, at least the team would be a playoff staple in the Lebron era. You make a wise trade (unlike what we did) and maybe you can get fortunate and make a 2nd run. But you'd be in the picture and a playoff staple with guys like KCP, Kuz, Caruso, depth, size etc. We got rid of all out of that to try and make a Westbrook project work. The issue is even after the Lakers won a title, Pelinka though 6'1 midgets like Dennis were the solution to Lebron's remaining years. |
We won a title in the bubble. Look at the heat without bubble.
All of this “ we could have drafted…” is silly. That will always be the case other than a few magical years.
Pelinka did what most GM in most leagues do. He listened to his 2 stars and got Russ. He probably doesn’t snag Russ if it’s only AD or only bron. But both guys begged/demanded we get him. That’s where it all started. |
His mistake was WB and he must pay for this mistake.
Simple. |
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SPO200 Star Player
Joined: 28 Jun 2018 Posts: 1458
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:38 am Post subject: |
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He was the agent of her friend. |
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Bron2AD Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021 Posts: 8712
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:26 am Post subject: |
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SPO200 wrote: | He was the agent of her friend. |
She still dreams of the day Kobe called her khalisi and lives in it |
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av3773 Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3750
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:47 am Post subject: |
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No question, he should be fired, Vogel got the hook last year, which I felt was deserved….Rob probably should have gotten tossed as well based on performance, this year his lack of performance is pretty clear…I give him credit for holding off making a trade now given our situation, but that’s minimized by the fact he is largely responsible for creating this situation….the WB trade was a disaster, the fact we are even talking about having interest in Kuzma us so damning…we give up assets to get a player who fits incredibly poorly with our squad for the price and seemingly are interested in giving up assets for the player we traded away? The first DS a couple years back, contract structure for AC and Reaves, etc and really the utter lack of accountability…JB needs a real President of Basketball Ops, not magic, not some former lakers, not some friend…then she needs to just fade into the background and write the checks, as a leader and a leadership team when it comes to on the court personnel decisions they are pretty clearly mediocre at best if not down right abysmal |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I give him credit for holding off making a trade now given our situation |
He's doing this because he has a 3 year guarantee after this year. So he's basically feeling safe, knowing Jeanie won't likely remove him after just giving him a 3 year extension (that kicks in only after this season). And remember, there was word in the summer that the Lakers were at one point willing to deal those 2 FRPs (27/29) for Kyrie.....
The most likely "change" is maybe Jeanie will bring in someone to work with Pelinka. The original plan was Magic and Pelinka, and then Magic up and quit. I could see one of Jeanie's inner circle who are not employed by the Lakers, get a support/co-GM type job. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16656
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:31 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | I give him credit for holding off making a trade now given our situation |
He's doing this because he has a 3 year guarantee after this year. . |
or maybe with AD injured yet a again and Bron repeating his shoot first, nothing second mentality, he knows there is nothing he can do to make a big leap in the performance of the team.
We are so deep in hole, with ADs situation unclear, we need a bonafide all star to help dig us out.
If we were 500, we could use just above-average to good players.
We at some point need like a 6-10 game win streak just to make the playoffs a possibility. _________________ Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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Lakeshow23_ Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2021 Posts: 660
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Halflife wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | The lakers downfall began when we traded for AD period. We were bidding against ourselves since AD and his camp made it clear he wouldn’t sign with anywhere but LA and moron Pelinka still managed to overpay for AD. |
I don't see how we can say this. We won a title that first year, and even if you look at the rest of the assets we had at the time.
2020 FRP (Could have drafted Desmond Bane)
2021 FRP (Could have drafted Herbert Jones/Isiah Jackson).
Kuzma (currently averaging 21.8 ppg as a starting 4
KCP (currently shooting 46.8% from 3 point) and has good RPM
Caruso (the Lakers best perimeter defender on 1 or 2 guards)
MLE (2020)
Javale McGee (starting C who fit the defensive system)
We easily could have continued to develop some young talent in the draft and also used the MLE, MMLE well enough to add talent. We eventually would have found players on bargains like Reaves and Walker.
Easily this year's team could be
Bigs: McGee, Davis, Jackson (2021 draft)
Big Wings: Lebron, Kuz,
Smaller Wings: KCP, Bane, Reaves, Walker (6'5 dudes)
Development projects: THT, Christie (also wings)
That's a loaded team with size to compensate for AD injuries (Kuz can step in big time in that role) and you have enough 3nD wings and defenders across the board around Lebron.
The only issue with this set up is that there's an over reliance on Lebron as a PG creator, something they had solved with Rondo in playoff mode, but would have issues with. But as Frank Vogel said when he got hired, Lebron is always the PG of his teams anyway, especially in playoff situations. Offense starts with him having the ball. The PG isn't as important, just like how we would win with guys like Fish/Sasha/Farmar at PG with Kobe at SG. The star has the ball.
What I believe is while the team we had maybe was only good for 1 run, at least the team would be a playoff staple in the Lebron era. You make a wise trade (unlike what we did) and maybe you can get fortunate and make a 2nd run. But you'd be in the picture and a playoff staple with guys like KCP, Kuz, Caruso, depth, size etc. We got rid of all out of that to try and make a Westbrook project work. The issue is even after the Lakers won a title, Pelinka though 6'1 midgets like Dennis were the solution to Lebron's remaining years. |
We won a title in the bubble. Look at the heat without bubble.
All of this “ we could have drafted…” is silly. That will always be the case other than a few magical years.
Pelinka did what most GM in most leagues do. He listened to his 2 stars and got Russ. He probably doesn’t snag Russ if it’s only AD or only bron. But both guys begged/demanded we get him. That’s where it all started. |
The Heat were a Jimmy Butler missed three from advancing to the finals last season. If the Lakers made similar moves with their assets they would have been right there as well. |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I am glad actually that so far Pelinka isn't making a bad situation worse.
Sometimes you just have to take your lumps and look to reset the thing which is where it seems we are headed.
Giving away a bunch of assets for Hield and Turner would have been stupid so I am glad they did not do that. At least yet. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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Andrew Evenstar Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 3526
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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he has the unreleased playboi jeanie issue
Last edited by Andrew Evenstar on Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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laker4life wrote: | Halflife wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Quote: | The lakers downfall began when we traded for AD period. We were bidding against ourselves since AD and his camp made it clear he wouldn’t sign with anywhere but LA and moron Pelinka still managed to overpay for AD. |
I don't see how we can say this. We won a title that first year, and even if you look at the rest of the assets we had at the time.
2020 FRP (Could have drafted Desmond Bane)
2021 FRP (Could have drafted Herbert Jones/Isiah Jackson).
Kuzma (currently averaging 21.8 ppg as a starting 4
KCP (currently shooting 46.8% from 3 point) and has good RPM
Caruso (the Lakers best perimeter defender on 1 or 2 guards)
MLE (2020)
Javale McGee (starting C who fit the defensive system)
We easily could have continued to develop some young talent in the draft and also used the MLE, MMLE well enough to add talent. We eventually would have found players on bargains like Reaves and Walker.
Easily this year's team could be
Bigs: McGee, Davis, Jackson (2021 draft)
Big Wings: Lebron, Kuz,
Smaller Wings: KCP, Bane, Reaves, Walker (6'5 dudes)
Development projects: THT, Christie (also wings)
That's a loaded team with size to compensate for AD injuries (Kuz can step in big time in that role) and you have enough 3nD wings and defenders across the board around Lebron.
The only issue with this set up is that there's an over reliance on Lebron as a PG creator, something they had solved with Rondo in playoff mode, but would have issues with. But as Frank Vogel said when he got hired, Lebron is always the PG of his teams anyway, especially in playoff situations. Offense starts with him having the ball. The PG isn't as important, just like how we would win with guys like Fish/Sasha/Farmar at PG with Kobe at SG. The star has the ball.
What I believe is while the team we had maybe was only good for 1 run, at least the team would be a playoff staple in the Lebron era. You make a wise trade (unlike what we did) and maybe you can get fortunate and make a 2nd run. But you'd be in the picture and a playoff staple with guys like KCP, Kuz, Caruso, depth, size etc. We got rid of all out of that to try and make a Westbrook project work. The issue is even after the Lakers won a title, Pelinka though 6'1 midgets like Dennis were the solution to Lebron's remaining years. |
We won a title in the bubble. Look at the heat without bubble.
All of this “ we could have drafted…” is silly. That will always be the case other than a few magical years.
Pelinka did what most GM in most leagues do. He listened to his 2 stars and got Russ. He probably doesn’t snag Russ if it’s only AD or only bron. But both guys begged/demanded we get him. That’s where it all started. |
His mistake was WB and he must pay for this mistake.
Simple. |
WB was really the cherry on top of all his mistakes.
He just made a series of bad moves because he is a poor negotiator and knows nothing about team construction.
I don't know if Rob is the worse GM in the league, but he is certainly on the short list for that distinction. |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2563
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 4:39 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | laker4life wrote: |
<snp>
His mistake was WB and he must pay for this mistake.
Simple. |
WB was really the cherry on top of all his mistakes.
He just made a series of bad moves because he is a poor negotiator and knows nothing about team construction.
I don't know if Rob is the worse GM in the league, but he is certainly on the short list for that distinction. |
Two things. First you're absolutely right, the WB trade was one of a series of poor decisions. Now all GM's make mistakes, they're paid to take risks, one really has to look at their basket of work instead of just one move, BUT good managers make more good moves than bad, meanwhile the truly pathetic ones (Isaiah Thomas comes to mind) do the opposite. Pelinka is on track to be the next Isaiah Thomas.
Secondly, while the WB trade was the cherry on the top, it was really the mother of all cherries because the trade wasn't just bad on it's own merit - net value - it had the added dimension of effectively trapping the Lakers into a corner with no picks and no trade-able assets thus dooming them for years and years - barring a miracle. We're now in year 2 of said limbo with countless LG threads filled with people performing any and all contortions in order to replace the LG/AD contracts with rather pedestrian players, and hoping to entice opposing GM's with throwaways/has-beens like Beverley |
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rock0100 Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 5387
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:54 am Post subject: |
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If we think Pelinka is limited in trade assets this year, next year will be worse.
We won’t have $60 million in expiring contracts. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t New Orleans get to take our pick next year if we suck again?
Pelinka is like a dear in the headlights. He needs to get over his bad moves and make a good deal. This guy is in shock and this inaction is going to doom is for a decade. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:27 am Post subject: |
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ThePageDude wrote: | Two things. First you're absolutely right, the WB trade was one of a series of poor decisions. Now all GM's make mistakes, they're paid to take risks, one really has to look at their basket of work instead of just one move, BUT good managers make more good moves than bad, meanwhile the truly pathetic ones (Isaiah Thomas comes to mind) do the opposite. Pelinka is on track to be the next Isaiah Thomas.
Secondly, while the WB trade was the cherry on the top, it was really the mother of all cherries because the trade wasn't just bad on it's own merit - net value - it had the added dimension of effectively trapping the Lakers into a corner with no picks and no trade-able assets thus dooming them for years and years - barring a miracle. We're now in year 2 of said limbo with countless LG threads filled with people performing any and all contortions in order to replace the LG/AD contracts with rather pedestrian players, and hoping to entice opposing GM's with throwaways/has-beens like Beverley |
That's accurate, but there's another dimension that has bothered me for years. Pelinka did not seem to have a long-term vision and did not even seem to recognize that he needs to have such a vision. It was all about quick fixes. That's what Jeanie needed after she booted Mitch and Jim, and that's what he worked to deliver. We got the title in the bubble, so he succeeded up to a point. But even before we won the bubble title, some of us were questioning the sustainability of the quick fixes. Lebron was a declining asset, and we dumped draft picks and the young players with the most upside. It's actually amazing how Lebron has managed to keep playing at an elite level this long. Back in 2019, would you have been expecting Lebron to have held up this well as we flip the calendar to 2023? I wouldn't have.
Other GMs have shown a long-term vision. Ainge cleaned out the aging stars for draft picks, and the Celtics missed the playoffs for only one season. The Warriors have a succession plan in place, though it isn't looking great at the moment as Poole has regressed after signing a new contract, while Kuminga and Wiseman have been awful. By contrast, Pelinka has just chased quick fixes, which led to the Westbrook trade.
In the last few months, it finally seems to have dawned on Pelinka that he can't sustain the quick fixes. Every other GM in the league is just waiting for him to cough up all of the remaining assets. Rich Paul has not managed to deliver another big name player, as he did with Davis. Instead, Rich Paul has used Pelinka as an ATM for his clients, like THT, Nunn, and Walker.
And that's where we are. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: |
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I don't think they are above quick fixes. I think they simply can't get a star with the assets they have left, and they want to preserve them for that. By preserving cap, they have a legit shot (in their mind) at signing Kyrie or Harden in summer 2023. If they sign one of them, while to most of us, that's not a move that in itself makes the Lakers a contender, for the Lakers that is the sort of move worth investing in and waiting for. From there, you'd likely see them much more open to moving draft picks, knowing they have now AD/Kyrie or AD/Harden as players to build around. By dealing picks for now, they can only get quality role players. There's been no indication the Lakers would refuse to deal these picks for a star. The cost of dealing for a star is multiple draft picks, and we can only trade 2. In the summer, 3. We could get Hield/Turner, but not a star, which is what we really would covet, IMO.
That's my perspective and I could be wrong, and they learned their lesson. But if you look at what was available, all the moves meant giving up a capspace run in 2023. That was the real value for them in patience, IMO. You get a crack at some stars. Their perspective for not doing a quick fix/Indiana style deal - Yes you get better, but not as much as if you had an all-star guard to pair with AD/Bron. Wait? You get an all-star guard in FA market.
Remember there was word in the discussions between the Nets and Lakers, at some point Pelinka did in fact begin to offer the 2027/29 picks. I read that, and wonder if the Nets were open to moving him (without KD first being moved) if that deal would have happened. I think it would have. |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2563
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
<snip>
Pelinka did not seem to have a long-term vision and did not even seem to recognize that he needs to have such a vision.
<snip>
Other GMs have shown a long-term vision. |
Excellent point. |
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kfkilla Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2002 Posts: 4279
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:44 am Post subject: |
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ThePageDude wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
<snip>
Pelinka did not seem to have a long-term vision and did not even seem to recognize that he needs to have such a vision.
<snip>
Other GMs have shown a long-term vision. |
Excellent point. |
He doesn’t have one because his interpretation of one is what I believe he called “sacred cap space.” Up until the RW point I think he has truly felt that cap flexibility was a vision. Remember he would never give anyone more than one year deals. Finally after the championship, he gave Kuz and KCP long term deals and turned around and shipped them out for RW. Now he traded THT for PB. The guy is obsessed with being able to reset after every year. On some level I get it, he walked in against Moz/Deng. Yet he threw away a future all star to get rid of Moz. That was an overpay too. We should have gotten more than cap space for Dlow on year 3 and still looked at as potential. Anyway just wanted to chime in with that. We can disagree with his vision and I for one most certainly do, but it’s a vision lol. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39324
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:46 am Post subject: |
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An agent knows nothing about being an NBA GM... shocking!
Kobe screwed us by recommending this guy. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11600
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:49 am Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | An agent knows nothing about being an NBA GM... shocking!
Kobe screwed us by recommending this guy. |
He's got this job because of Kobe and not because of his talent. Jeanie is a you know what. This is the perfect example of it's who you know know, not what you know. |
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