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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:00 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Basically, Pelinka is neither making a move to help AD/Lebron get into the playoffs now, nor is he trading them to get future assets in place. The cost of not making moves, is sure you keep your future picks, but you also lose your current ones at a costly price (lottery picks). One can argue that by doing nothing, he's doing less harm that he theoretically could do. However that's based on a principle that he already sucks at his job and any move he would make would be horrible.
I was not for the Hield/Turner for WB/2 picks trade. However, I do think it would have put us at least in a 6th-7th seed. Probably higher, until AD goes down. If AD's out for a long time, having that kind of talent around Lebron keeps you competitive. Worst case, you're not losing a lottery pick in the top 7-8 in a strong draft. Again, I wasn't for the trade based on what was rumored we were giving up, but Turner is 26 and Hield is 29. These are players you could have signed to 3-4 year deals and with Reaves, built a decent 5 man core that would have been a playoff staple. Not a ring team, but at least a team that can consistently stay in that .600 range and be a factor in the playoffs. |
On the first point, you assume that we could have traded Lebron and Davis for draft picks. That's possible, though we'll never know what the return would have been, since we would have been selling low. But Jeanie was never going to embrace a tank, so this was never more than theoretical.
On the second point, if I really thought that the resulting roster would be as good as you suggest, I'd feel different about that trade concept. But I don't. Lebron is a declining asset, and Davis can't stay healthy. We'd still have no depth. We can achieve a similar result in free agency next summer without giving up the draft picks. That idea may seem strange at first, but really, Turner and Hield aren't that great, they certainly aren't unique, and they don't address our burning need on the wing. With $30M-ish in cap space, we can add value that is comparable to Turner and Hield. I know that some people have literally spent months selling themselves on how well Turner and Hield would work on this team. I've never bought into it. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11597
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Pelinka is a very close friend of Jeanie so it's more like a token of friendship extension more than anything. If it doesn't work out, she would only be paying her friend.
Having Lebron on the team will keep the money printer going. At the end of the day, the team makes a lot of money while saving on taxes. That's what's important to Jeanie, money and friendship. She's got both. She's living the life of a true heiress. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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Big Game James Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 4003 Location: The official trout slapper of LG.net
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | You assume that we could have traded Lebron and Davis for draft picks. That's possible, though we'll never know what the return would have been, since we would have been selling low. |
Selling low? Listen, we all know that this team sucks. But it isn't because of LeBron and Davis. Those 2 are playing exceptionally well (that is until Davis went down with an injury).
Just not seeing why you think we would be selling low. _________________ Don't make me give you a trout slap! |
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lakersboy Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Pelinka’s relationship with Jeanie reminds me of Elgin Baylor working for Donald Sterling. With continual issues of being cheap and bad management decisions, Baylor was the face of the franchise and Sterling never had to interview or address the issues.
When all was going well, even when she was implementing her new regime, Jeanie had no problem doing interviews. Now she doesn’t have anything to say because she’s looking really bad right now. Pelinka has probably made it clear that he’s willing to take bullets directed at her which keeps public pressure off of her. |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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The praise or criticism Pelinka gets is tied entirely to AD's health. It's like a volatile stock. |
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Nonamehero Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2018 Posts: 806
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pelinka is toxic for us.
we would have to rebuild for 10 + years with the mess he has done.
oh well at least we got a championship |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Big Game James wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | You assume that we could have traded Lebron and Davis for draft picks. That's possible, though we'll never know what the return would have been, since we would have been selling low. |
Selling low? Listen, we all know that this team sucks. But it isn't because of LeBron and Davis. Those 2 are playing exceptionally well (that is until Davis went down with an injury).
Just not seeing why you think we would be selling low. |
WPL was talking about trading them during the offseason. Davis' value was rock bottom back then. It would have rebounded once he started playing well during the season. This injury may have knocked his value back down, but we'll see how it goes. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Big Game James wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | You assume that we could have traded Lebron and Davis for draft picks. That's possible, though we'll never know what the return would have been, since we would have been selling low. |
Selling low? Listen, we all know that this team sucks. But it isn't because of LeBron and Davis. Those 2 are playing exceptionally well (that is until Davis went down with an injury).
Just not seeing why you think we would be selling low. |
WPL was talking about trading them during the offseason. Davis' value was rock bottom back then. It would have rebounded once he started playing well during the season. This injury may have knocked his value back down, but we'll see how it goes. |
Ive been on the record since offseason , saying that if they could get some cap relief, 2 mid career starters, 3 FRPs, for AD/Bron, that’s enough. We develop some of the players we have and we begin to build some depth and 2-way talent. We probably would be a lottery team for this season and next, but after that depending on other big moves could have a much better situation. Right now we’re stuck. Neither good enough to be a quality team with AD/Bron, nor a team that has enough assets to get better around them within enough of a timeframe in the Lebron era. We’re just a show. That’s fine, it is entertainment. However if the Laker standards are to build winners, I don’t see how we will reach our objectives by going about things this way. We’re simply just wasting time here, IMO. |
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Lakersfan1211 Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2021 Posts: 5308
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Told Bron he'll do everything in his power to ensure that the Lakers are perennial contenders, and once he got that extension, *crickets*
Fooled everyone. |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 22798
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Extension looks better for nights like tonight with all the anger. jeanie got her money worth. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Told Bron he'll do everything in his power to ensure that the Lakers are perennial contenders, and once he got that extension, *crickets*
Fooled everyone. |
To be fair, what he actually said was, "We will do everything we can, picks included, to make deals that give us a chance to help LeBron get to the end ... but it has to be the right one. You have one shot to do it. So we're being very thoughtful around the decisions on when and how to use draft capital in a way that will improve our roster." |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8288 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers would've been better off firing Jim Buss but keeping Mitch Kupchak as GM. Not sure how much Mitch is respected around the league, but he's good with numbers and good at putting trades together.
Or better yet, bring back Jerry West when he reportedly wanted to come back. You could've made some accommodations for him considering his age and anxiety problems - maybe he only has to work a few days a week, maybe he could work remotely a good amount of the time, etc.
I think Jeanie Buss is a good woman, but she's too sentimental and nepotistic. Nepotism has been the downfall of many formally great organizations, and it could turn the Lakers into the Knicks or the (ewww) Raiders. |
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BEazy Star Player
Joined: 06 Nov 2013 Posts: 2588
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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We only hired this guy because we wanted him to be like Bob Myers. His ties with Kobe was just the cherry on top for Jeanie. Dude is not even close to Bob Myers... |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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BEazy wrote: | We only hired this guy because we wanted him to be like Bob Myers. His ties with Kobe was just the cherry on top for Jeanie. Dude is not even close to Bob Myers... | myers may be available. Not sure if Jeanie will go there. Also not sure how effective Myers is in a situation where ownership doesn’t give the GM a carte blanche to spend as much as possible.
I wonder how many elite executives would even want to work with Jeanie, Rambis, Linda, Tim, Buss bros etc.
It’s not like the executive would have to go to only one source (ownership). There’s a number of channels. Then you also have to deal with knowing Jeanie is talking to Phil/Magic for advice as well, advice that may contradict your plans as an executive.
Honestly as much as I feel Pelinka should be replaced. I don’t feel an elite executive would want to do this. Then there’s money. Would they pay an executive the sort of money some of these teams are? |
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miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6564
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Told Bron he'll do everything in his power to ensure that the Lakers are perennial contenders, and once he got that extension, *crickets*
Fooled everyone. |
To be fair, what he actually said was, "We will do everything we can, picks included, to make deals that give us a chance to help LeBron get to the end ... but it has to be the right one. You have one shot to do it. So we're being very thoughtful around the decisions on when and how to use draft capital in a way that will improve our roster." |
Everyone knows what he meant by "It has to be the right one." It means for a 3rd star.
I don't think two picks 5-7 years from now is enough to get you another all star caliber player. |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2563
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: |
<snip>
Honestly as much as I feel Pelinka should be replaced. I don’t feel an elite executive would want to do this. Then there’s money. Would they pay an executive the sort of money some of these teams are? |
Bingo! |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 5997
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:41 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Because Jeanie Buss doesn’t know how to run a franchise. I disagree with those who say she doesn’t care, I think that she does. She just wasn’t able to learn much from her father. |
He preferred Jim over her because he was the only one that had a chance. That’s how bad Jeanie is. The hostile takeover was such a joke I still can’t believe it. Was never sexism…Jeanie was good with the business side..basketball knowledge 0. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11597
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:50 am Post subject: |
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With AD out, I think Pelinka gets a free get-out-of-jail card this year because even if our record was terrible, they would just point to AD being out. I expect Pelinka to be back next year making more awesome roster changes. Ham possibly would get axed because he couldn't utilize the great roster that Pelinka has put together. |
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RashardA Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 1377 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers are an embarrassment to the city of Los Angeles from top to bottom.
It's not going to change until the people who have decision making power are replaced.
All of them.
Every single one of them.
It's not going to change until this roster is completely overhauled.
If that does not happen, they will continue to be a complete and utter clown show. _________________ Everyting negative - pressure, challenges - is all an opportunity for me to rise.
-Kobe Bryant |
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quartzcharm Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Mar 2016 Posts: 551
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I wish fans would stop going to the games to support this trash.
Would love to see Jeannie and Rob's faces when they show a nationally televised Lakers game and half the arena is empty.
Maybe then, those two morons would finally get it. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16656
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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miggz23 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Lakersfan1211 wrote: | Told Bron he'll do everything in his power to ensure that the Lakers are perennial contenders, and once he got that extension, *crickets*
Fooled everyone. |
To be fair, what he actually said was, "We will do everything we can, picks included, to make deals that give us a chance to help LeBron get to the end ... but it has to be the right one. You have one shot to do it. So we're being very thoughtful around the decisions on when and how to use draft capital in a way that will improve our roster." |
Everyone knows what he meant by "It has to be the right one." It means for a 3rd star. |
Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. I have no idea. (Heck, even what players constitute a "third star" can be unclear.)
My point was that some people seem to think Rob made a pledge to trade the draft picks no matter what for the best offer. I took his comments as non-committal, generic GM talk. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | With AD out, I think Pelinka gets a free get-out-of-jail card this year because even if our record was terrible, they would just point to AD being out. I expect Pelinka to be back next year making more awesome roster changes. Ham possibly would get axed because he couldn't utilize the great roster that Pelinka has put together. |
I think that Ham is doing a good job of showcasing Pelinka’s failures. Didn’t Jeanie say that their contracts were designed to reflect each other? Would a quick yank of Ham include a quick yank of Rob? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | With AD out, I think Pelinka gets a free get-out-of-jail card this year because even if our record was terrible, they would just point to AD being out. I expect Pelinka to be back next year making more awesome roster changes. Ham possibly would get axed because he couldn't utilize the great roster that Pelinka has put together. |
I think that Ham is doing a good job of showcasing Pelinka’s failures. Didn’t Jeanie say that their contracts were designed to reflect each other? Would a quick yank of Ham include a quick yank of Rob? |
There were reports that the Lakers extended Rob so that his contract and Ham's contract would expire at the same time, and give them "an alignment on one vision."
There's no particular reason to think that one of them getting fired means the other will automatically get fired at the same time. |
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vasashi17+ Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5610
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Do some of yall really trust this guy to trade whatever assets we do have and come out of it on the winning end of it?
This ain't about being team Klutch or not...if folks want to remove themselves from the clutches of Klutch, go right ahead, but it can't be this guy making it happen.
He needs to gtfo the FO before Bron, AD and Klutch gets addressed for a readdress.
Btw, Bron can't be traded till this coming offseason and at that time he will have no power to block a trade. We wouldn't need his consent to ship him out.
But first things first....#FOh _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE! |
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