SONICS -at- LAKERS -- 11/3 -- Thoughts and :-)) ratings
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Thoughts and Ratings Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40188
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject:

Muad'Dib wrote:


DB--great stuff as usual. One thing that's killing me is waiting for them to recognize and take advantage of the mismatches they're getting on offense. Examples: Ridenour on Luke on the block, Allen on Bynum (2-3x last night!), Wilkins on Lamar at the rim, etc. Phil loves to create these mismatches with solid tri execution, but they've got to take better advantage of them.


The experienced Tri guys like Luke and Kobe seem better at recognizing that and trying to work the ball there. But still, yes, they did a poor job. It was a little frustrating with some of the more obvious ones. I'm sure that will get a little better when they've spent some more time on the court and know how to get what they want.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CorkyTomjanovich
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 3486

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: SONICS -at- LAKERS -- 11/3 -- Thoughts and :-)) ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
24/7...


You have got to leave one of Ronny or Bynum in the game when we are getting torched by dribble penetration.



Exactly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
prisma8slg
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB.
_________________
"I define success by championships, by winning..." Kobe Bryant

"I've seen it all. Sasha dunked on somebody," Kobe Bryant said. "I'm ready to retire now."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kups
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1716

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject:

Feed the post. Feed the post. Feed the post.

- that should be the team's mindset from start to end. Maximize our strengths.

Great recap! Thanks DB!
_________________
#2 Lonzo
#28 Derrick White, Jordan Bell, Deonte Burton
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90299
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject:

I knew Turiaf could do the defense and rebounding stuff, but that 15-18 foot jumper is looking real good, and his clutch freethrows were a huge surprise. With LO hitting the 3, and RT's development of the midrange shot, I think Cook is going to have a real hard time getting minutes when Kwame and/or Mihm get back.

Right now, it's looking to me like 35-40 mpg for Odom, with Bynum, Turiaf, and either Mihm or Kwame splitting the other post minutes. There's going to be some fierce competition, because two bigs are going to end up on the pine. One thing that people might have forgotten was how well Mihm was playing in the post before his injury. between that and his shot blocking, I really like a Mihm/ Bynum/ Turiaf platoon at center, with RT picking up minutes at PF behind odom. This leaves Cook as the extra big and Kwame???.

DB, Ronny's double block may be the play of the game (especially since after the second block, he had the presence of mind/ athletecism to tap the ball to Smush), but Luke's behind the back drop to Kobe early, and Farmar's "get that #@&$ out of here!" rejection of Ridenour were honorable mention.

BTW, Kudos to Phil for the 4 man backcourt rotation of Kobe, Smush, Farmar, and Evans. I think this is mostly what you're going to see. All of them fit their roles well, and the minutes divide up nicely. Sorry Sasha, better get a nice seat next to Cook.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6121

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:
DB--great stuff as usual. One thing that's killing me is waiting for them to recognize and take advantage of the mismatches they're getting on offense. Examples: Ridenour on Luke on the block, Allen on Bynum (2-3x last night!), Wilkins on Lamar at the rim, etc. Phil loves to create these mismatches with solid tri execution, but they've got to take better advantage of them.
The experienced Tri guys like Luke and Kobe seem better at recognizing that and trying to work the ball there. But still, yes, they did a poor job. It was a little frustrating with some of the more obvious ones. I'm sure that will get a little better when they've spent some more time on the court and know how to get what they want.
Do you think that they couldn't get the ball to the mismatch or didn't see the mismatch?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40188
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Klone_dd wrote:
Just a nitpick on the 5 FGA for the centers - R & B went 12-15 from the line, many of them were the result of getting fouled in the act of shooting, so they really did get more than just 5 shots. But even if all of the FTs were shooting fouls, that would translate to 7 FGA, and 12 is still too few from our center spot against a team with no size.


If you want to nitpick it further, though, you also have two of Ronny's FGAs being on kickout jumpers, many FT attempts came as the result of hustle work even on the D end. So, he had very few actual post touches. Bynum had a few at the beginning of the game, but only had a couple actual post touches in the second half. They did a better job trying to get the ball to him in the first couple minutes unlike the prior game, but it was a token effort after that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
la45
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 783

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The point of small ball is speed. If you have bigs that can run the floor or have players with size that are fast - then there's no need to play small is there?

Odom at 4 gives the Lakers speed. Bynum or Turiaf (and hopefully when Kwame comes back) running the floor quickly gives the Lakers speed at 5. We know that Walton, Kobe and Parker/Farmar all are good at running up the court. It's not so much that the Lakers have to play small - what they have to do is have their players being able to run up the court a) look for a quick score or b) set up in the Triangle much faster than last season. Most teams play small ball so they can get more speed, ballhandling and shooting. Well the Lakers have players at PF-PG that can do that in their respective positions.

I think what the emphasis of this year's team is speed. We wouldn't have 5 bigs on the roster (Bynum, Kwame, Turiaf, Mihm, Cook) and two 6'10 forwards in Odom/Radmanovic if the objective was to go small. The objective IMO is to increase the speed of the offense - including the Triangle (in terms of setting it up). Another big factor is that they are posting up alot. Teams that play small ball don't post up as much as the Lakers do. Size is still the biggest advantage the Lakers have - only now the Lakers have size that actually can run the floor with triple threat skills.


I would say "small ball" is for range more than speed. One of the most important things for a free flowing offense these days is a PF that can shoot the three. If you watched the Cavs/Spurs game last night, you'll see why that is. They were much less aggressive in double-teaming Duncan when Horry was in the game(the problem with Horry is that that's pretty much the only thing he can do these days, so while the Spurs were able to make a run while he's in the game, it was not enough, as the Cavs built too large of a lead). With the zone rule, you can position your players such that you can double team anyone and recover if the other team has one big (or to be more accurate, anyone other than a center that doesn't have the range) to at least 20 feet.

Now, let's assume for a moment that that PF can also rebound, play pretty good D and penetrate. If we had a quality starting SF, this team is a dynasty. Otherwise, let's hope that Turiaf can develop his range to AT LEAST 20 feet.


Last edited by la45 on Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Editor-in-Chief


Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40188
Location: O.C.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Do you think that they couldn't get the ball to the mismatch or didn't see the mismatch?


Probably a bit of everything. We need to have most players recognize what is going on and work the Tri to take advantage of the mismatch. Kobe knows how to do that and you can see him organizing the offense for that sometimes. Luke does it. LO is getting much better at it. They'll set it up better as the season goes along. Smush had a few nice moments in that regard this early part of the season, especially some entry feeds to Bynum when he had an advantage...but everyone else seems to be still catching up. Mihm was okay at it. Sasha, Kwame and Cook are generally poor at it. Shammond, Evans and Vlad Rad are all new. Bynum, Turiaf and Farmar are all young, but have done a pretty good job in the offense. Still, I think we need wait a few more months to see them getting a lot more comfortable with how it gets organized.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58318

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject:

la45 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The point of small ball is speed. If you have bigs that can run the floor or have players with size that are fast - then there's no need to play small is there?

Odom at 4 gives the Lakers speed. Bynum or Turiaf (and hopefully when Kwame comes back) running the floor quickly gives the Lakers speed at 5. We know that Walton, Kobe and Parker/Farmar all are good at running up the court. It's not so much that the Lakers have to play small - what they have to do is have their players being able to run up the court a) look for a quick score or b) set up in the Triangle much faster than last season. Most teams play small ball so they can get more speed, ballhandling and shooting. Well the Lakers have players at PF-PG that can do that in their respective positions.

I think what the emphasis of this year's team is speed. We wouldn't have 5 bigs on the roster (Bynum, Kwame, Turiaf, Mihm, Cook) and two 6'10 forwards in Odom/Radmanovic if the objective was to go small. The objective IMO is to increase the speed of the offense - including the Triangle (in terms of setting it up). Another big factor is that they are posting up alot. Teams that play small ball don't post up as much as the Lakers do. Size is still the biggest advantage the Lakers have - only now the Lakers have size that actually can run the floor with triple threat skills.


I would say "small ball" is for range more than speed. One of the most important things for a free flowing offense these days is a PF that can shoot the three. If you watched the Cavs/Spurs game last night, you'll see why that is. They were much less aggressive in double-teaming Duncan when Horry was in the game(the problem with Horry is that that's pretty much the only thing he can do these days, so while the Spurs were able to make a run while he's in the game, it was not enough, as the Cavs built too large of a lead).

Now, let's assume for a moment that that PF can also rebound, play pretty good D and penetrate. If we had a quality starting SF, this team is a dynasty. Otherwise, let's hope that Turiaf can develop his range to AT LEAST 20 feet.

That's all true but read the bolded
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Sister Golden Hair
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 15872

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject:

First things first: I was dead wrong about Turiaff. I didn't like the pick when Mitch made it, was even more disappointed when Ronny's heart issues surfaced, and didn't expect much from him this year. Boy, has his play changed my opinion. Dare I say it: he has the heart of a lion. Teams deperately need guys with that never-say-die attitude and infectious enthuisiam. You can even see the refs giving him respect. That's big.

Beyond that, Ronny is pretty damn fundamenatally sound. Those FTs he hit, thoe blcoks at the end, that jumper -- all money, clutch, and just professional. Very exciting to watch this guy play. He's a "glue guy" and it wouldn't surpise me if he became a leader in the lockerroom. These kinds of players are worth so much more to a team than simply what they do on the court. But Turiaff brings it on the court as well. fantastic.

Having said all that, I still prefer him coming off the bench. Why? Because I think the sixth man should be an upgrade that a team brings in that the opposition canot so easily counter. Think back to the way the Celtics used McHale in his early years. I think Ronny's hustle, enthusiam, and motor make him just what the doctor ordered when this team needs a pick me up. I cansee him being a key part of that second unit (along with Luke), trhat is good enough to start, but actually gets you more traction coming in off the bench.

I also like him one the Court at game's end because he seems so much more aware than some of the other bigs on the team.

I have to remove Turiuaff from the "demerits" side of my imaginary Mitch score-card.

SGH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47565

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Sister Golden Hair wrote:
First things first: I was dead wrong about Turiaff. I didn't like the pick when Mitch made it, was even more disappointed when Ronny's heart issues surfaced, and didn't expect much from him this year. Boy, has his play changed my opinion. Dare I say it: he has the heart of a lion. Teams deperately need guys with that never-say-die attitude and infectious enthuisiam. You can even see the refs giving him respect. That's big.

Beyond that, Ronny is pretty damn fundamenatally sound. Those FTs he hit, thoe blcoks at the end, that jumper -- all money, clutch, and just professional. Very exciting to watch this guy play. He's a "glue guy" and it wouldn't surpise me if he became a leader in the lockerroom. These kinds of players are worth so much more to a team than simply what they do on the court. But Turiaff brings it on the court as well. fantastic.

Having said all that, I still prefer him coming off the bench. Why? Because I think the sixth man should be an upgrade that a team brings in that the opposition canot so easily counter. Think back to the way the Celtics used McHale in his early years. I think Ronny's hustle, enthusiam, and motor make him just what the doctor ordered when this team needs a pick me up. I cansee him being a key part of that second unit (along with Luke), trhat is good enough to start, but actually gets you more traction coming in off the bench.

I also like him one the Court at game's end because he seems so much more aware than some of the other bigs on the team.

I have to remove Turiuaff from the "demerits" side of my imaginary Mitch score-card.

SGH


Great post, welcome back!

I was propping Turiaf all summer as my dark horse to blow up huge for the Lakers. It was obvious to me he had huge game and dare I say heart when he came back last year literally months after his surgery and with no training camp played very respectable basketball.

I figured once he got in shape he could play and I always liked him at Gonzaga. He is like a Madsen on the boards and with the hustle, but bigger and stronger and FAR more skilled on the offensive end.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47565

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject:

DB, I second your Man Law on Turiaf!

Can we have a vote?
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dadamookie
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: SONICS -at- LAKERS -- 11/3 -- Thoughts and :-)) ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
We ignored the post way too much and had far too many turnovers that had us scrambling. If we ran the offense with a little more poise and purpose, we might have cut down on some of that.


...My EXACT thoughts after watching the game. I guess the offense will have to go through some transition period with Kobe back in the line up. Every time I was done cursing Kobe for trying to do too much, he'd make some spectacular shot to remind me why he's the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject:

The offense looked different... I felt a bit miffed, because Evans didn't explode on the scene, like in previous games. Some of the bench players didn't seem to click together, as in the first two games...

Ronny, for example, did not really "catch-fire", till the end of the game... To me, it looked like Ronny may have been "venting", maybe, because of all the time he was spending, on the bench... :roll:

I remember, just before Ronny got hot, I was thinking... "Man, I guess Bynum just can't play at this speed, just yet... We are going to...)(*(*& really miss Kwame, and Mihm... I guess we still have bigman woes".... We definetly need consistent bigman presence, in the paint.

Some of the "explosiveness" seemed to be gone, as Phil tried various things out. Smush got some big minutes. Sasha was almost non-existent.
_________________
"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
2The4th
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:27 am    Post subject:

Kobe's not ready. He looks very sloppy. Hope this doesn't continue for long.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RCS926
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject:

2The4th wrote:
Kobe's not ready. He looks very sloppy. Hope this doesn't continue for long.


Uhhh...don't you think he did fine after playing in his 1st game since game 7 against Phoenix? Provide that his knee isn't hurting him anymore, then he is certainly ready to be back on the court. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's ready to be the Kobe we're used to seeing, but that will come in time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Thoughts and Ratings All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB