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nomoreshaq
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 Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:08 pm Post subject: on paper - do you think this team would have competed better with health and a good coach? |
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AD with Hayes and Wood backing him up. Hayes being an energy guy and Wood a stretch 4/5.
Bron + Rui + Vando and then having Prince off the bench as a shooter and Cam off the bench (10 MPG) just to play defense if Vando was getting cooked.
Dlo + AR + Gabe being a three-way guard rotation.
Just say theoretically every played 70 games and were expected versions of themselves (shooting, defense, etc.)
Also, say we had like Nick Nurse as our coach.
What would this theoretical team be missing? |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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What
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ThreePointBomber
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Joined: 14 May 2010
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Location: Inland Empire
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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No, because when AD goes out the replacement is Jaxon (bleep) Hayes 
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ThreePointBomber wrote: | | No, because when AD goes out the replacement is Jaxon (bleep) Hayes |
What about on paper though?
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: on paper - do you think this team would have competed better with health and a good coach? |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | AD with Hayes and Wood backing him up. Hayes being an energy guy and Wood a stretch 4/5.
Bron + Rui + Vando and then having Prince off the bench as a shooter and Cam off the bench (10 MPG) just to play defense if Vando was getting cooked.
Dlo + AR + Gabe being a three-way guard rotation.
Just say theoretically every played 70 games and were expected versions of themselves (shooting, defense, etc.)
Also, say we had like Nick Nurse as our coach.
What would this theoretical team be missing? |
I never believed what you are theorizing that this group could compete for a ship even in the off season when those players were acquired and I don’t believe it now after seeing them this season. Even with a better coach. See the sig below.
Rob was inadequate 1st, then Ham. Competing better really isn’t the goal for me, I’m a spoiled Lakers fan from the Magic era so it’s ship or bust for me. Gabe/Wood/Hayes/Cam all proved in my eyes with their season what I said when they 1st got signed…it ain’t enough. How could you bring up those guys as a solution with the unproductive season they had?
Rob needed to do something else, preferably in the off season but once the team struggled it looks like malpractice not to upgrade the team at the trade deadline. Rob failed to build a ship contender so Ham’s inadequacy just mattered as to what degree the team would fail. Sure I hope I’m wrong but I’m just waiting for the inevitable.
To answer the last question the team needed Schroeder instead of Vincent, perhaps Oubre instead of Prince and the best available big body C obtainable for the BAE. If a C couldn’t be found worth the BAE then save it to use next year and get vet min Bismark or Tristan or MoBamba or MylesLenard or ???. Also, needed to draft Whitmore instead of JHSfino for a more NBA ready contributor. If they sold the 2nd rd pick they could still have had everyone else: Hayes/Wood/CamRed/MaxC/Dinwidde. Or they could have passed on CamRed and still drafted a second round pick. It would not be MaxLewis with Withmore but perhaps anyone else.
That’s from my mind, I’m not a professional GM, I would expect Rob, who is a professional GM to conceive and execute even a better plan…didn’t happen.
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Theseus
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Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 14208
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think Ham gets unfairly criticized for a lack of health to the roster to start the season, injuries to Rui and Vando for one, but I think he gets an appropriate amount of criticism for what he did after that. I think Ham stayed with lineups that didn't work for too long, instead of moving towards the tried and tested ones that experienced success. This is inexplicable from hindsight, but also hard to justify while it was happening.
The team's performance during the IST was great, but right after it fell apart. It is like we became a different team. Is this completely unavoidable by a different coach? Especially with how we were getting beaten and how we failed to make adjustments, seems to me that it was avoidable.
Lebron and AD turned in some great performances. Lebron and AD could be 1st/2nd all nba with AD deserving 1st or 2nd all defensive. Then you factor in the all time Laker great shooting season we got from DLo, you'd think we should see more team success.
I don't think that we'd be a top 4 team in the west, but maybe win a couple more games and get the 5th or 6th seed |
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nutella
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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If we had Gabe and Vando for a full year, I think the team would have performed better in the regular season, probably still a #5/6 team though.
I liked that we kept Dlo (there wasn't anyone on the market that moves the needle), Hayes developed, Cam seems permanent parked on bench, and TP knows to drive.
Too bad with Rui, I remember we were arguing about whether he or Vando gets the start, not Cam/TP. lol
Too bad with Max, I remember we all thought he would have prominent role from the bench. I still think he's capable.
Arguably, a better coach could have done away with Cam/TP earlier, but ending the season with 14 wins in 20 is still a feat.
Yea, I guess all is to say I think the team could be few seeds higher with better coach but probably still not a chip unless we're super fortunate with injuries |
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leking006
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Joined: 12 Oct 2018
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yup for sure specially that bron and ad are healthy almost the whole season |
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leking006
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Joined: 12 Oct 2018
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| this lineup is actually 1 solid big man away (like gafford or valanciunas or brook lopez) from being the favorite to win it all. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43990
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| No. Two different head coaches. Three different rosters. Same result. Four straight play-in seasons. It’s not the coach, its Lebron and Anthony. |
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Kblo247!
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Joined: 05 Oct 2015
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | No. Two different head coaches. Three different rosters. Same result. Four straight play-in seasons. It’s not the coach, its Lebron and Anthony. |
How the hell has the play in helped Bron or AD?
They have finished in an actual playoff spot three years and had to play a game for it despite having the record to own said playoff spot under the old system. They have been a playoff team all but the Russ year every single year. They just get thrown in to the play in but they’ve never been 9/10 to even benefit from it
They won a title, had the best record in the west and lost home court year 1
They ripped the league apart early with no real break to start year 2, and then got hurt, finished in a playoff spot, and had Phoenix down and beat to AD tore his groin
They had the Russ year and that’s on them for wanting his ass.
They played last year, both with hurt feet, finished the best record in the league post all star break, finished in an actual playoff spot that they earned by record and the play in made them play an extra game, and made the conference finals with an all new cast
This year they won a in season tournament they could not even count a game of stats for, they have been the hottest team out west since March, they finished in a playoff spot and well over 500 again, they both have barely missed games, and their coach chose to bench each of the guys Pelinka paid bags to at one point in the year for cam reddish. But the second he started the 5 highest paid guys on the team, they have won at an over 60% rate, gee who would have thought |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29074
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The offense has been top 5 since Rui was put in the starting lineup. Defensively, they are what they are. Vando upgrades the defense but drags down the offense. Better decisions earlier in the season could have led to a higher seeding, but as of recently, feels like we're getting the most out of what the front office built tbh. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | No. Two different head coaches. Three different rosters. Same result. Four straight play-in seasons. It’s not the coach, its Lebron and Anthony. |
Games played for Lebron James
Play in season 2021: 45/72 63%
Play in season 2024: 71/82 87%
Games played for Anthony Davis
Play in season 2021: 36/72 50%
Play in season 2024: 76/82 93%
The last time the Lakers had a different coach and were in the play in, they had a far less healthy AD/Lebron. In particular AD, who is our staple on defense and our defense tends to fall apart without him.
The last time we had a healthy AD/Lebron regular season, with a good supporting cast around them, we were the #1 seed in the West.
The supporting cast is quite good around these guys. Rui is our 5th best player. Reaves is our 4th. DLO our 3rd. We have some decent bench options. This should not be a play in team. However (bleep) happens. Just get in the playoffs and it's a brand new season! |
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defense
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Could of done better. Could of done worse. This is a bit pointless. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: |
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I thought that this team was a 43-45 win team, that is pretty much what they are.
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:46 am Post subject: Re: on paper - do you think this team would have competed better with health and a good coach? |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: |
What would this theoretical team be missing? |
1) A full-time center that weighs more than an PF
2) A 2-way SF. |
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I thought that this team was a 43-45 win team, that is pretty much what they are. |
They won 47 which is "pretty much" a 50 win team.  |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I thought that this team was a 43-45 win team, that is pretty much what they are. |
They won 47 which is "pretty much" a 50 win team. |
Math isn’t your friend
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kfkilla
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 4309
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 100%. Hams double digit IQ cost this team 10ish games IMHO. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I thought that this team was a 43-45 win team, that is pretty much what they are. |
They won 47 which is "pretty much" a 50 win team. |
Math isn’t your friend |
To be fair, the mean and median of the range (44) you ostensibly predicted is as close to 47 as 47 is to 50 |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6145
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: on paper - do you think this team would have competed better with health and a good coach? |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | AD with Hayes and Wood backing him up. Hayes being an energy guy and Wood a stretch 4/5.
Bron + Rui + Vando and then having Prince off the bench as a shooter and Cam off the bench (10 MPG) just to play defense if Vando was getting cooked.
Dlo + AR + Gabe being a three-way guard rotation.
Just say theoretically every played 70 games and were expected versions of themselves (shooting, defense, etc.)
Also, say we had like Nick Nurse as our coach.
What would this theoretical team be missing? |
I never believed what you are theorizing that this group could compete for a ship even in the off season when those players were acquired and I don’t believe it now after seeing them this season. Even with a better coach. See the sig below.
Rob was inadequate 1st, then Ham. Competing better really isn’t the goal for me, I’m a spoiled Lakers fan from the Magic era so it’s ship or bust for me. Gabe/Wood/Hayes/Cam all proved in my eyes with their season what I said when they 1st got signed…it ain’t enough. How could you bring up those guys as a solution with the unproductive season they had?
Rob needed to do something else, preferably in the off season but once the team struggled it looks like malpractice not to upgrade the team at the trade deadline. Rob failed to build a ship contender so Ham’s inadequacy just mattered as to what degree the team would fail. Sure I hope I’m wrong but I’m just waiting for the inevitable.
To answer the last question the team needed Schroeder instead of Vincent, perhaps Oubre instead of Prince and the best available big body C obtainable for the BAE. If a C couldn’t be found worth the BAE then save it to use next year and get vet min Bismark or Tristan or MoBamba or MylesLenard or ???. Also, needed to draft Whitmore instead of JHSfino for a more NBA ready contributor. If they sold the 2nd rd pick they could still have had everyone else: Hayes/Wood/CamRed/MaxC/Dinwidde. Or they could have passed on CamRed and still drafted a second round pick. It would not be MaxLewis with Withmore but perhaps anyone else.
That’s from my mind, I’m not a professional GM, I would expect Rob, who is a professional GM to conceive and execute even a better plan…didn’t happen. |
DS wanted to be a starter and that wasn't happening because of financial and DLo/AR is a better starting lineup combination. DS has Heart and scrappy but too short. DS was traded from Raptors to Nets while not prividing enough offense. He would be a great PatBev-like role player
Bismark, Tristian and Mo Bamba were not effective for the Lakers. Myles Leonard is not an option because he would demand to be the starting center and not worth the players the Lakers would have to give up to get him.
If one noticed Vando earlier in the season, he has learned how to make his presence known as an offensive threat - like the way that Hayes is playing. His contributions are invaluable because he brings PatBev-type of energy, focus and stellar defense that would be an invaluable impact on games plus he would be able to guard Porter/Gordon/Murray in the future taking the burden off LBJ to AR to AD
Read your words on a Win Now focus while talking about getting better draft picks - lol!
Rob did build a legitimate title-contending team, albeit beset with injuries. When a Vando/CWood/AR/DLo/Cam/Christie got surprising "Signature Wins" - Rob picked the right players
Could Nurse, TLue, Spoelstra, Udori, Daigneault, Mosley have done much better - nope |
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Lakeshow23_
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Joined: 02 May 2021
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Their true level is 50-53 wins. We were fortunate with a healthy season for our stars but injuries to other key rotation guys and bizarre minute allocation cost us a number of games. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6820
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | Their true level is 50-53 wins. We were fortunate with a healthy season for our stars but injuries to other key rotation guys and bizarre minute allocation cost us a number of games. |
With Vando/Gabe healthy I think they are a 50-52 win team...
With Vando/Gabe healthy along with better coaching, I think they are a 55+ win team. |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I thought that this team was a 43-45 win team, that is pretty much what they are. |
They won 47 which is "pretty much" a 50 win team. |
Math isn’t your friend |
To be fair, the mean and median of the range (44) you ostensibly predicted is as close to 47 as 47 is to 50 |
Nice to see someone using their brain. |
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Robblake
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Joined: 05 Aug 2020
Posts: 979
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I think a better coach would’ve found better lineups much sooner and utilized timeouts wiser. Ham actually has some good qualities about him and is a rookie coach by all measures. He will be coaching for his job soon tho. |
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