Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: pick your swingman ?
so assuming no major trades are made (and most of us hope that will change - but who knows...), and that the lakers dont' try to move up in the draft (probably brewer is the only guy we'd do that for ?), i think the safest bet is to assume that the lakers use the mle on a pg, and use the draft to add an athletic sf who'll bring a different look defensivey than what luke and vlad bring.
question is - who ?
from the mock drafts i've seen, there are several candidates -
t. young, n.young, d.byars, m.williams, a.aflallo (though not sure he can play sf).
(i'll admit that in theory - at least for now - my marco doesn't seem to be in our future plans...)
so a few question here - and i honestly don't have much of an opinion myself about this:
1. who will be the best defender at the 3 spot ?
2. who has the best chance of stepping in right away and helping in that role
3. who has the most upside
4. is any of the above guys worth passing up acie law if he's available ?
* i can't see us going into the season with a pg rotation of farmar and law - so drafting a pg is a luxury - unless law is absolutly the best player of all the guys i mentioned. so it all depends on the impact you think one of the swingmen here can have...
anyway, would love to hear your opinions since as i said - i don't have mine made up about this.
I'm unsure about this draft. Being in the #2 spot would be so easy. I'm torn between the Youngs (Nick and Thaddeus) and even the idea of Acie Law sounds appealing. Pairing up Afflalo with Farmar would mean instant chemistry as well as adding another defensive minded player. So many choices. _________________ Game recognize game, Granddad. - Riley Freeman, The Boondocks
where we pick - all those swingmen and law too seem like decent choices, but i'm looking for seperation based on the questions i asked.
if people can rank them that would be even better since i think there's chance that at least one of the players on the list won't be available when we pick - in addition to law who also has a good chance to go higher.
This draft is an interesting gamble after the first dozen or so picks.
Best defender? Easy, Corey Brewer
Best at stepping in at that role immediately? Again, Corey Brewer
Most upside? Thaddeus Young (doesn't mean he'll ever reach it, he's actually quite risky)
Any of the above worth passing up for Acie Law? Definitely, from a purely philosophical point of view. Short-term improvement should be addressed through free agency or trade, not the draft.
Last edited by angrypuppy on Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total
USC's top 3 players - Young, Pruitt and Gibson - were as good as anyone else's in the nation. They would've beaten Carolina if they had any depth behind them.
He's mature, hits clutch shots, has a very good midrange game, can create his own shot, is very athletic and plays solid defense.
Great thread. This pretty much asks all of the questions that I've been asking myself as well.
1) I sincerely hope that Charlie Bell is that MLE PG that you speak of, David. Fits us to a tee.
2) Maybe I'm scarred from the atrocities of the last 50 games of the Laker season, but of the players you mentioned, my favorite is Nick Young because of his ability to defend. High end athlete, nice midrange game, and most importantly A TWO WAY PLAYER (CAN YOU HEAR ME, MITCH?!?!?! )
Anyway, I love Thaddeus Young's potential, but he's not exactly a willing defender.
3) I'm going to go a bit against the grain and say that we should trade our pick this year. I think that we're actually fairly set in the swingman role with Kobe and Evans, and those seem to be the type of player that will be available to us at that point in the draft. I think we'd be better served to package that pick with Odom and change to land a legitimate 2nd option, preferably at the PF position.
I like Law a lot, but I too can't envision a Law/Farmar rotation.
But assuming we don't make a trade, I'm hoping for Nick Young, because I think he'll be the BPA, and that's what we need to draft.
^ thanks man.
gave a lot of answers - or actually one really - nick young ?...
you say he's the bpa - even if law is there ? interesting.
i was asking myself that question and just don't feel i know enough to make a call.
anyway, i've been campaigning for charlie bell for a really really long time.
its just that he's restricted, and although my first move in the off season would be to offer him the full mle - i'm afraid the bucks might match it.
and by afraid - i guess i mean afraid... he is the absolute best option, it's just not completely up to us...
reading your post, i think you'll be interested to hear that sky is absolutly certain the bucks will match a full mle offer for bell, and he's also heard that mitch really likes thad young...
from your analysis of young - he's probably right...
but anyway, like i said - i don't really know all those players too well, and at least by your post - it defenetly seems like n. young is our guy. i just seem to recall reasing a scouting report that wasn't too exited about his defense - but i (or they) could be wrong.
the ability to play great defense at the small forward position is the top priority imo - IF we do keep the pick - and we may very well not - who knows ?
but unlike you, i do think we absoluty have to add an athletic small forward.
either use our draft pick to add one, or if we trade our pick (probably in a package for a pg ?) we need to sign ruben patterson.
Oh man, that's too bad that Bell is restricted. And Sky is the best "insider" that posts on this board, IMO, so if he says that the Bucks would match an MLE offer, I believe him. I just seems curious to me. Is Mo Williams not in their long term plans? MLE money seems to be a hefty price to pay for your 3rd guard, and obviously Redd is entrenched at SG.
I do need to clarify my feelings on Law vs. Young. I believe that Law would be the BPA in that set of circumstances, and I am very high on his ability. It's a matter of degree, in my eyes. Law will be a slightly better player in the pros than Young will be, but I have difficulty believing that Phil Jackson would be in favor of his top two PGs being so young. The discrepancy between Law and Young is small enough to where need starts coming into play, and Young makes more sense in my eyes.
As for Young's defensive capabilities go, I'm not saying he's going to be a lockdown defender like Brewer, but he'll be somewhere between above average and good. He's also pretty polished on the offensive side of the ball, with a nice first step and very solid mid range game.
Basically he's good at most things, and great at nothing. Just a solid all around player, which I'd be happy with @ 19.
All of that being said, taking him over Law is predicated on acquiring Bell. If that's not the case, I'd rather have Acie, but:
1) I don't think he'll be available, and
2) I can't see Phil going that young at PG
Thaddeus Young would be a swing for the fences pick. Very boom or bust, IMO.
first of all - about bell - that's just sky's estimation - there's no telling.
i think that if we're serious, we need to throw the entire thing at him, and wait out the mandatory 7 days.
stranger things have happend.
i remember 2 years ago screaming on every possible board for us to make a play at c. duhon. we didn't - and the going rumor said we shyed away because he was restricted.
he ended up signing a very cheap deal with the bulls.
so i still think bell is worth a shot. the bucks do have an extention for mo williams coming, and a decision on patterson and skinner (will probably leave - they have a good draft pick), but overall - they have a very low payroll, and when someone's as effective as bell - and also versatile (has played 3 positions for them this year) - mle does seem like a reasonable deal to match.
but we can still hope...
about law - i have no doubt that we won't see a pg rotation of law and farmar.
still, if we manage to add an athletic swingman for cheap (jumain jones ?) and add a veteran pg by mle or trade, it is possible to keep both law and farmar as back ups, with a decision to be made next summer on who to keep.
we could also draft law and use him as bait in an andre miller trade ?
or how about trading him to the suns with vlad for banks, j.jones, and the cavs' draft pick ? from everything i've heard about the suns' agenda, that could actually be possible. law will be the back up that banks was never able to be, and banks will be our third pg ?
but if you're saying that young will be an above average defender - that sounds good to me. we need someone who can come in, play some solid athletic defense at the 3, and not be a liability offensively - and it sounds like he may have what it takes.
I try my very best not to talk out of my you know what when it comes to things that I don't feel I'm very educated about. That being said, I haven't seen enough of Byars (two or three games) to give a confident assessment of him.
That being said, from what I did see of him, he looked like an above average passer at his position (key in the triangle), and was also very effective on the defensive end of the floor, especially against Jonathan Wallace of Georgetown. My knowledge of him is limited, but I liked what I saw, for what that's worth. Wouldn't be upset at all if we picked him.
As for Bell, heck yes we need to pressure the Bucks with a full MLE offer. You would know better than I would if this is legal under the CBA, but perhaps a "we'll send this 2nd round pick your way and you don't match" kind of deal can be worked out if they're on the fence about it. Or perhaps someone like Brian Cook. Either way, I think he's a necessity.
With Nick Young, I'd be remiss to not mention that he's likely more of a SG than a SF at the pro level, IMO. He's 6'6", 195lbs, so he does have swingman capabilities (and defends larger players fairly well), but he's not a "SF that can defend 3's", in the prototypical sense. He's actually not tremendously dissimilar to Mo Evans.
But at the end of the day, I'm hoping that we can turn Lamar Odom, change, and our pick into a legitimate 2nd option on offense. I'm very high on Turiaf, and I think our porous defense would be well served by having him play big minutes at PF.
trade:
cook, sasha, both 1st rd picks to boston for d. west and b. sclabrine
resign mihm and luke
vet min - j.rose
mle - split - j.vaughn, pj brown
west/farmar/vaughn
kobe/evans/rose
wallace/luke/rose
odom/turiaf/scalbrine
kwame/mihm/pj brown
the big problem ? i can't see the lakers doing my basic 1st trade of bynum and vlad for wallace and the pick...
but that's what i would do.
oh, and about byars - i just find it interesting that both major draft sites (draftexpress and nbadraft.net) - have such different views of where he'll be picked.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject:
t. young, n.young, d.byars, m.williams, a.aflallo
1. Thaddeus Young by far has the most upside. It's not just the athleticism, but the combination of base skill level, athleticism, attitude, and size.
2. Nick young will never be a 3. Only a 2. Solid all-way around, but questionable mental toughness in terms of making himself present on every possession.
3. Derrick Byars is just Devin Brown reincarnated. Solid player. Limited upside. Same game, athleticism, size, etc.
4. Marcus Williams is like Nick Young, just a better passer and reluctant to drive. Gets even more lost.
5. Afflalo has the most intangibles of the group. Limited upside. Limited athleticism. Best hoop IQ of the 5. Best defender at the NCAA level, but Young can bypass him defensively with work ethic and mentality.
Quote:
1. who will be the best defender at the 3 spot ?
2. who has the best chance of stepping in right away and helping in that role
3. who has the most upside
4. is any of the above guys worth passing up acie law if he's available
1. Of all the guys, Young or Afflalo.
2. Afflalo.
3. Young
4. If Law is available, you take him over all except arguably Thaddeus Young. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
i'm a little confused since you didn't say which "young" in your final paragraph...
anyway, about thad young - one thing i didn't get from you is how's his defense ? i've heard that mitch really likes the guy, so i guess not that good ?...
so you're saying that law and thad are the superior talents - to a degree that you can't pass them up even if n.young can help more right away ?
did i get that right ?
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject:
The last young is Thaddeus Young.
His defense is solid. He's got the best defensive tools of all the players and he's not a selfish player by any means. Could you imagine a slightly stronger, more explosive Tayshawn? Prince was far better schooled, but Young doesn't lack in defensive talent, just some defensive discipline.
Where did you hear that Mitch liked him?
Law and Thad are superior talents. I never rely on rookies for "impact" right away because that's a misconception. 4 year college seniors aren't more ready than some 1-2 year college players, nevermind 1-2 year 19 year old European players.
See Walton/Cook vs. Chris Paul/Jordan Farmar vs. Tony Parker/Pau Gasol vs. Sasha Vujacic. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Green and Thaddeus Young are the two players LA is really pining for based on rumors and the like. It's more based on Jim Buss wanting a young swing player for the future.
For all of Jimmy's crap, I like his thought processes for the draft. If LA had had him making the decisions from 2001 on, they're likely sitting pretty with at least 4-5 titles. _________________ Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass."
thanks...it would be real nice to get one of those dudes, our future would look good. plus we got 2 other draft picks that we can us on defensive players like strawberry.
Interesting assessment of Thaddeus Young, Mike. To me, the Tayshaun Prince comparison only holds true in terms of shooting with feet set, and his frame.
Everytime I saw Young play, he seemed very disinterested and clueless on defense. Now, GT did run a zone, but even with that being said, he doesn't seem to have the mentality of a solid defender.
Then on offense, he's very raw. Poor ball handler that has difficulty dribbling with his right hand. He is unselfish, which would be nice in the triangle, but he also turns the ball over a lot more than he should.
He does have the most upside of the players that will be available, but I think that it's very possible that he never realizes that potential, and he's a long way off.
Joined: 05 Jul 2002 Posts: 4327 Location: The Shining City on a Hill
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject:
If we want T. Young we better hope the Lakers lose Wed and the Warriors win out.
I am 99.99% certain than Nelly and Mullin take T. Young just ahead of us in the draft if available.
I am 99.99% certain that the Clippers take Law ahead of us unless the extremely unlikely event Mike Conley Jr falls to them but I am 99.99% certain Conley does not fall bellow Atlanta.
Nick Young could fall to us I just don't think he can defend the 3 in the NBA on a nighly basis. There are so many big 3s in the West 6'6" 195-200 lbs is not enough.
Melo,McGrady,AK-47,Rashard Lewis,sometimes even Dirk and Kg. Not to mention not so big but extemely athletic Shawn Marion. _________________ Let the PAB hold out 2 years and walk without his Bird rights if he chooses.
OJ Mayo
Derrick Rose
Nicolas Batum
Michael Beasley
Chase Budinger
Darrell Arthur
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