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gng930
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11476
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | 10scott10 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | ^^^You mean 4-6, if the pick is #3 it goes to the Hawks as the pick has top 3 protection.
People also overestimate the Suns. They don't have the money to keep the players they have. They also only have something like 9 players on contract for next year, yet are already over the cap and on schedule to pay the luxury tax.
1) Phoenix will not trade the luxury tax, so in order to avoid the tax, they must trade two out of four of Diaw, Barbosa, Amare, and Marion to a team which has the cap room to take more salary than they give back to the suns (about $8 million). These teams include Orlando, Charlotte, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Memphis, and Toronto. Chad Ford and Marc Stein have been reporting this for over a year. No one will really take Diaw (because of his bad contract), so it comes down to Amare, Barbosa, and Marion (it is likely two of those players are gone next year).
2) However, the Suns have bigger problems. While needing to do the above trade, they need to do even more to free up money. This is because the Suns only have 9 players on contract next year, so need to bring in at least SIX ADDITIONAL players make the league minimum roster of 14. They won't use the MLE because that will cost too much. They also have to sign the high draft pick they will draft (around 2-3 million) and their second first round pick (likely which they will trade again similar to last year when they traded the Rondo pick last year).
3) Thomas is aging by the day (plus he only has two years left on his deal) and its only a matter of time, even as soon as next year, before Nash starts slowing down and/or suffers an injury that causes him to miss a lot of games. |
I hope you are right because # 4 will still be pretty good. Suns may not get Oden or Durant but looks like they will get a shot at Brandon Wright who would fit their offense perfectly and still provide defense. |
This is what I would do if I was the suns in the offseason in order to solidify their roster WHILE avoiding the luxury tax.
First I would trade Marion, Amare, and the SUns late first round pick for Sign/trade Gerald Wallace ($8 mil), Brevin Knight, Adam Morrison, and their first round pick. Right off the bat that would save the Suns about $14 million (Charlotte will do it because, even after signing Wallace, they would still be about $20 million below the cap and they obviously get a good deal talent wise). That means they would have about $6 million to sign their two high draft picks and still avoid paying the luxury tax.
So then they would likley have the 4th and 7th pick or so. I would draft Brandon Wright and Jakim Noah.
PG - Nash/Knight/Banks
SG - Bell/Barbosa
SF - Wallace/Morrison/Jones
PF - Wright/Noah/2nd round pick
C - Diaw/Thomas/Burke
Although immediately not as good, that team has the potential to be very good and all would thrive in D'Antoni's system. Not bad after getting rid of two all-stars.
Charlotte team would be -
PG - Felton/Pruitt/???
SG - Carrol/???/???
SF - Marion/Hermann
PF - Okafor/May/Harrington
C - Amare/Voskuhl/Hollins
They could use Phoenix's late pick om Gabe Pruitt. I would then re-sign Carrol for $2 mil. They would have to sign or trade for 3 more players, but would have $4 million in cap room to do it and the Bird rights of Brezec (who they could re-sign or trade) and could still trade Marion or Amare to other teams for more players as well.
The only problem is that the Bobcats want to avoid paying too much salary, but with that team, they wouyld still be way under the luxury tax threshold and I am sure their atendance and revnue share would go up. That is a great team. |
i feel that trading both amare and marion is insane, but they will probably trade one of them soon. their owner flat out doesn't want to pay luxury tax under any circumstance. that is why they traded away Joe johnson, i know diaw is good, but johnson is a true-allstar, and would be in any system. diaw is only as good as he is in pheonix is becuase of the system. but one of them will be traded.
next year they currently have 9 players under contract, and are spending 76mil. that is without any draft picks or other players. so i have a feeling that some people will be gone soon. |
They're salary is $76 million, the LT is likely $68 million next year, so they need to cut $8 million dollars WHILE ADDING at least 5 more players.
They can't trade Diaw, because no one will take him...his contract sucks that bad for the production he would bring. So it comes down to trading any combination of Marion, Barbosa, and Amare to a team under the cap so that the Suns can take back LESS salary in the trade. Again, that limits the field of teams to Charlotte, Milwaukee, Toronto, Orlando, Memphis, and New Orleans. The one with the most cap space, and therefore the most likely trading partner, is Charlotte.
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Your point is well taken, but your numbers are a bit off. The LT will be closer to 70mil IMO, but that's offset but the high draft pick bringing their payroll to 80. The minimum roster rule is 13. The pick brings them to 11. So in actuality, they're only obligated to cut 10mil while adding 2 more players.
Your rebuilt lineup is interesting but won't get them anywhere. Wallace's complete lack of a reliable jumpshot will bring their offense to a grinding halt. |
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21_Blessings
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6369
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | Is it me or does Afflalo sound almost identical to Battier? Same strengths and weaknesses going into the draft.
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Affalo has all the tools to be a good defender in this league. He can also moves very well off the ball. The Lakers should take him with their 2nd round pick if he is there. They desperately need more tough players like Afflalo. |
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NestT
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 4327
Location: The Shining City on a Hill
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | Is it me or does Afflalo sound almost identical to Battier? Same strengths and weaknesses going into the draft.
LakerSanity, that info on the Suns is really surprising. What do you think the chances are that they decide to keep their players and take the tax hit? |
Objectively Battier is 2 inches taller and that makes a world of difference.
Subjectively,Battier is a better athlete.
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | 10scott10 wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | ^^^You mean 4-6, if the pick is #3 it goes to the Hawks as the pick has top 3 protection.
People also overestimate the Suns. They don't have the money to keep the players they have. They also only have something like 9 players on contract for next year, yet are already over the cap and on schedule to pay the luxury tax.
1) Phoenix will not trade the luxury tax, so in order to avoid the tax, they must trade two out of four of Diaw, Barbosa, Amare, and Marion to a team which has the cap room to take more salary than they give back to the suns (about $8 million). These teams include Orlando, Charlotte, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Memphis, and Toronto. Chad Ford and Marc Stein have been reporting this for over a year. No one will really take Diaw (because of his bad contract), so it comes down to Amare, Barbosa, and Marion (it is likely two of those players are gone next year).
2) However, the Suns have bigger problems. While needing to do the above trade, they need to do even more to free up money. This is because the Suns only have 9 players on contract next year, so need to bring in at least SIX ADDITIONAL players make the league minimum roster of 14. They won't use the MLE because that will cost too much. They also have to sign the high draft pick they will draft (around 2-3 million) and their second first round pick (likely which they will trade again similar to last year when they traded the Rondo pick last year).
3) Thomas is aging by the day (plus he only has two years left on his deal) and its only a matter of time, even as soon as next year, before Nash starts slowing down and/or suffers an injury that causes him to miss a lot of games. |
I hope you are right because # 4 will still be pretty good. Suns may not get Oden or Durant but looks like they will get a shot at Brandon Wright who would fit their offense perfectly and still provide defense. |
This is what I would do if I was the suns in the offseason in order to solidify their roster WHILE avoiding the luxury tax.
First I would trade Marion, Amare, and the SUns late first round pick for Sign/trade Gerald Wallace ($8 mil), Brevin Knight, Adam Morrison, and their first round pick. Right off the bat that would save the Suns about $14 million (Charlotte will do it because, even after signing Wallace, they would still be about $20 million below the cap and they obviously get a good deal talent wise). That means they would have about $6 million to sign their two high draft picks and still avoid paying the luxury tax.
So then they would likley have the 4th and 7th pick or so. I would draft Brandon Wright and Jakim Noah.
PG - Nash/Knight/Banks
SG - Bell/Barbosa
SF - Wallace/Morrison/Jones
PF - Wright/Noah/2nd round pick
C - Diaw/Thomas/Burke
Although immediately not as good, that team has the potential to be very good and all would thrive in D'Antoni's system. Not bad after getting rid of two all-stars.
Charlotte team would be -
PG - Felton/Pruitt/???
SG - Carrol/???/???
SF - Marion/Hermann
PF - Okafor/May/Harrington
C - Amare/Voskuhl/Hollins
They could use Phoenix's late pick om Gabe Pruitt. I would then re-sign Carrol for $2 mil. They would have to sign or trade for 3 more players, but would have $4 million in cap room to do it and the Bird rights of Brezec (who they could re-sign or trade) and could still trade Marion or Amare to other teams for more players as well.
The only problem is that the Bobcats want to avoid paying too much salary, but with that team, they wouyld still be way under the luxury tax threshold and I am sure their atendance and revnue share would go up. That is a great team. |
i feel that trading both amare and marion is insane, but they will probably trade one of them soon. their owner flat out doesn't want to pay luxury tax under any circumstance. that is why they traded away Joe johnson, i know diaw is good, but johnson is a true-allstar, and would be in any system. diaw is only as good as he is in pheonix is becuase of the system. but one of them will be traded.
next year they currently have 9 players under contract, and are spending 76mil. that is without any draft picks or other players. so i have a feeling that some people will be gone soon. |
They're salary is $76 million, the LT is likely $68 million next year, so they need to cut $8 million dollars WHILE ADDING at least 5 more players.
They can't trade Diaw, because no one will take him...his contract sucks that bad for the production he would bring. So it comes down to trading any combination of Marion, Barbosa, and Amare to a team under the cap so that the Suns can take back LESS salary in the trade. Again, that limits the field of teams to Charlotte, Milwaukee, Toronto, Orlando, Memphis, and New Orleans. The one with the most cap space, and therefore the most likely trading partner, is Charlotte.
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Your point is well taken, but your numbers are a bit off. The LT will be closer to 70mil IMO, but that's offset but the high draft pick bringing their payroll to 80. The minimum roster rule is 13. The pick brings them to 11. So in actuality, they're only obligated to cut 10mil while adding 2 more players.
Your rebuilt lineup is interesting but won't get them anywhere. Wallace's complete lack of a reliable jumpshot will bring their offense to a grinding halt. |
No, I incorporated the high draft pick after the trade....I just added later than you did, so my numbers aren't off.
Secondly, I didn't pick $68 million arbitrarily.....ESPN estimates the luxury tax threshold to be $68 million next year.
Regarding Wallace, Marion isn't that great of a jump shooter...probably just as good as Wallace. He would take Wallace's place, plus they woild have Morrison backing him up who would THRIVE with the open looks Nash and Knight would get him in D'Antoni's system.
Lastly, when the CBA was restructured, the league increased the minimum roster from 13 to 14, so yes, since they only have 9 contracts right now, they would need five more players (whether that be from draft picks, Free agents, or incoming trades), but have to do that while at a minimum reducing their pay role by $8 million to avoid the lux tax.
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LakerSanity
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Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: |
LakerSanity, that info on the Suns is really surprising. What do you think the chances are that they decide to keep their players and take the tax hit? |
I am not expert, so don't know any inside info. All I know is what I have read from writers who claim to have inside knowledge (Chad Ford and Marc Stein) and from what I know about their roster, cap, and draft situation.
From all of that, it appears likely they will take a step back next year, not a step forward.
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DoubleClutch
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 2712
Location: Town
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: |
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They've been talking about trading Marion for years, but I just can't see them giving up Amare. It'll probably be Barbosa unless they can get someone to take Diaw with Marion in a package deal.
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