From Summer League to Training Camp - Thoughts and Ratings :-))

 
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: From Summer League to Training Camp - Thoughts and Ratings :-))

From Summer League to Training Camp...

If you look at several of the prospects we had in past summer leagues, it was easy to spot their weaknesses. Sasha...too slow and too soft; he avoided the paint and the midrange game; he didn't use his height well; he also lacked some fundamentals, which he has since improved on. Wafer...athletic chucker, limited handles, no savvy to his game (I can recall reporting on an incident where he chucked up a three with a man on him. On a deadball, Rambis told him where he could get better shots within the offense. Von took the inbounds ran to one of the spots and chucked up a three. Rambis laughed and shook his head. That's not running the triangle, in case you are wondering.) Look at Devin Green. He had the savvy. He could run the offense great...even play some solid D, but his weakness was the violent relationship his perimeter shot had with the rim.

Then, with Farmar we saw a much more savvy, well-rounded guard. He could attack off the dribble, work off the ball, he could drive and hit finesse shots or hit from the perimeter. Defensively, he wasn't the strongest guy (in fact looked very much like an average guy), but he could make up some of that with his hops. Strong, athletic guards still give him trouble. But all of his transferable skills and his work ethic/professionalism would make him a very good prospect. In fact, he was one of the best guards we've had in the summer league for years.

Another key to look for is what kind of plays a guy is making in the summer league that won't be there at the next level. Ronny Turiaf backing down a tweener PF and dunking over him as if Ronny were Shaq comes to mind. It was nice at the time, but you knew...or you should have known...that's not a skill that will transfer for him against bigger, stronger players at the next level. Defensive lateral speed and great reads on help D...that will transfer.

After attending a couple of the Vegas games and watching the rest online or on NBATV at least twice, here's a few of my comments on three of our summer league youngins before we see them against NBA opponents in Hawaii.

(Note: I will be in Hawaii at the games, but I'm not sure whether I will be able to give you guys Thoughts and Ratings for those games or not... I'm dealing with a broken lcd backlight on a laptop and the fact that... I'm in Hawaii.)


Jordan Farmar --

After the SPL last season, I said we got a baller in Farmar who would probably start for the Lakers after a year if we didn't make any changes to our guards. Seeing as how we still had a platoon of backup guards for him to compete against, that's pretty much what happened. Farmar won out the starting job at the end of the year. He was green, but had an excellent attitude, a grasp of the offense, and little real competition to deal with.

What we saw in Farmar in his first SPL was a player who was especially efficient within the offense. He didn't dominate the ball, showed superb off-the-ball movements and reads within the offense, and did a good job setting up teammates. Remember, though, he had the benefit of playing with several Triangle experienced players on that team. This year was a different story with the offense.

The offense had much more trouble getting organized. Guys were late to fill the post (despite the bench constantly yelling at them). Cuts and reads were often late. Rodney White was clueless, stopping the ball a lot and cranking up shots (a huge difference compared to a guy like Devin Green last year who made the offense flow). Our bigs weren't as Tri savvy as Bynum, who got attention and is a very good passer from the post. Farmar tried to floor general the situation this year as much as possible, but at times it did impact how effective he could be.

So, that efficiency off the ball wasn't quite there like it was last year. It is, perhaps, a subtle thing, but it really didn't play to some of his strengths. He was still able to provide some true-PG type of plays, setting up teammates a number of times off the dribble. Shooting-wise he has also gone through a subtle change. Last season, he was leaning back a bit more on his shot, he didn't look quite as strong and was less consistent from behind the three line in the pregame shootarounds. You could definitely see the difference this year. Before a couple of the games I attended he was knocking down everything from beyond the arc. He was leaning a bit more forward with his shot, which is what the coaches wanted him to do. The results look much improved and more consistent. Hopefully, that will transfer to the regular season at some point.

Defensively, Farmar was his usually slippery self on screens. He's had that since entering the league. Where he really got into trouble is in the strength area. Stronger, athletic guards were giving him problems off the dribble, as they did last year. They could overpower him for easy scores in the lane. Although, he had a game where he took a couple of charges in the summer league, he needs to work on that more. With those stronger players, he can use his speed better to beat them to the spot and take the charge. This will help counter the strength issue a bit, instead of trying to rely on his hops to contest near the rim. (DFish is a master at this and Farmar and excellent student...this could help a lot.) Also, for whatever reason this summer, Farmar didn't seem to be contesting shots quite as well on the perimeter as he did last summer. He did his usual good job of jumping passing lanes for steals, even had a few in the backcourt.

Despite some ups and downs this summer, he does seem to have put in some quality work over the past year. He's those two animals you want to hear about a player -- a gym rat and a workhorse. All of that will help him put together some more consistent performances and elevate his game a bit this season.


Javaris Crittenton --

A tale of two systems. If you look at the Georgia Tech system, you often saw too much one-on-one play. They would go into a set, dump a pass to a player and let him go to work. Picture some of those stagnant, purpose-less offensive sets the Del Harris teams used to run (or walk through). The off-the-ball movement was greatly lacking at GT. It was the main reason they went one and done in the NCAA Tourney despite having two NBA studs in Crittenton and Thadeus Young.

In the first half of that Tourney game, Critt would come down and pass it off and another player would go to work. He'd rarely get the ball back. They rarely ran even the high pick and roll for Critt. Down big, he went to work in the second half and got them back in the game with some high screen-roll attacks and an occasional spectacular play. The offense had purpose. Had they done that earlier, their stay in the spotlight would have been longer. So, Critt was knocked for not being able to floor general a team as well as you would like to see and for getting himself into occasional trouble trying to do just that. Freshman meets bad system. It played to his weaknesses.

Cue the summer league and a team that ran the triangle, which Critt spent four years running in high school. Now he's back in a system that has off-the-ball movement, two-man games, quick passing, and continual points of attack. Opportunities and soft spots in the D are more predictable. You get less reliance on traditional PG skills and take more advantage of combo-guard skills. Crittenton becomes more of an efficient, error-free threat. Some of his biggest knocks pre-draft.

How aggressive will he be when he's a rookie playing next to Kobe and Lamar? Let's keep a close eye on that.

On to the skills... The first thing that sticks out with Critt's games are his handles and first step. They are NBA-ready, advanced and can get him to places on the court that only Kobe can get to right now for the Lakers. With the clock low and the ball in his hands he can create a high-quality shot for himself or others. He also doesn't need to dominate the ball in order to create. He showed an ability to make some quick strikes off the weakside pinch post, getting into that wing area and sizing up his man or reversing and going down the middle of the lane. His cross-over, while risky at times, is top notch. He can change directions and attack with speed with either hand.

He was impressive doing just that working behind that high elbow weakside pinch post (once going behind his back with speed behind the screen to lose his man and get dribble penetration). His first step is NBA-quality, a deadly weapon that will open up the perimeter game for him. He can change gears very, very well. That's a skill that will transfer, as well.

Critt is fond of the ballfake, using it to clear lanes, freeze a defender and create a scoring opportunity. In the summer league he was fearless with his dribble, willing to attack through crowded quarters with confidence, very impressive at times. We will have to see how well that transfers at the next level because he could get himself into a little bit of trouble with better defenders around. On most nights, he should be fine.

In transition, he can push the dribble with speed and will take it to a defender if there's only one back on D. Bottomline, he's got the best handles we've drafted since Kobe. In pregame, he'll show off some of the range in his handles.

Shooting-wise, he will need to improve his three range. While he can hit it from NBA three, he will need to get used to the length. His midrange game looked strong in the summer league. Look for the Lakers to set him up frequently for the 15- to 18-footers coming off our double-screen sequence. It's a play both Fish and Smush were able to find some good looks. Javaris will be able to bring a new dimension to it, however, whenever he elects not to take the shot, but to attack. He can also pull-up off that weakside pinch post if defenders go under the screen. He will get a lot of catch-and-shoot three opportunities and will need to continue to improve that area of his game.

As I mentioned before the summer league started, Critt can be very, very clutch. He showed that in the first game, hitting the wing jumper a step inside the three line for the win. When it comes to finishing around the rim, he's fearless (this could lead to some potential injuries). He will throwdown when he can. He needs to work on some of his finishing, however. He must have missed half a dozens shots around the rim (maybe more) that were makeable. The attention he draws, however, will pay off for any of our bigs who are aggressive in crashing the glass.

His freethrow shooting has a slight hitch in his body movement before shooting, but even though he had some minor struggles from the line in the summer league, he shot 78.3 percent in college.

Off the ball, he can catch and shoot well out to NBA three range (off the dribble he seemed to come up a little short...strength issue). His reads in the offense came naturally. There were sequences when Farmar would penetrate with the dribble and Crittenton would dive from the weakside with some speed to take passes (in other words, when Kobe is working with the ball, Critt will likely be moving to get open, and not just settling for the kickout jumpers). He moves quick when he recognizes a give and go, changing gears with speed to get a step.

Passing... In traffic or on the break, he will show superb creativity. Within the Triangle, he'll need to improve his judgement, timing and work on the post entry feeds. The four years running a Tri type of offense in high school no doubt helps him, but he will need to improve. One thing DFish can help him work on is some of the passing sequences (the corner entries off the ball reverses, spotting the high-lows, etc.) that we like to run. Critt will occasionally make a bad read within the offense or a bad angled pass and pay the price, but some of that is just issues of experience. As I mentioned, he liked to use the ballfake a lot off the dribble, so some passing opportunities will turn into scoring opportunities for him. He'll bring a little Showtime every now and then with the pass. He puts together combinations of the ball fakes, no lookers, behind-the-back, behind-the-head in some of his passing sequences. So, you'll see him throw something a little extra in that will play well to the crowd (as well as freeze defenders).

Defensively, his length really comes to play on the one-on-one sequences, contesting shots in the paint. He forced a number of bricks by penetrating guards. Teammates will have to be ready to clean the glass. Last summer league, Farmar had some difficulties adjusting to how the NBA calls the perimeter aggressiveness. The various handchecks and things that are instant fouls. Critt didn't seem to have this problem, which is something you expect from most rookies. If a guard turns his back on Javaris, he will get aggressive with the reach and strips. This happened a number of times. He won't find a lot of steals like that this year unless he's playing against the deep bench. Critt fights over the top of the pick most of the time. He needs to work on being a little less sticky on them. Phil will also likely have him do a lot more switching than he's used to. He'll recover to his man, but is prone to fly bys or getting into the popcorn machine.

How much will he play? Very tricky question. We've brought in a veteran triangle guard whom Phil has a level of trust with. That's important to Phil. Jordan also has a level of trust built up since starting late last season. In practice, Critt will likely be the type of player to give both Farmar and Fish problems. His size and strength will be difficult to defend for Farmar. His speed and handles will give Fish fits. So, he will likely make a strong case for himself. In the summer league he played both the 1 and 2 spots. He'll need to get a little stronger to handle the 2 at the next level, so we'd likely have to pick our spots at first. If he does get some minutes at the 2, his creativity and aggressiveness will give us a new dimension behind Kobe that we haven't had.

Weaknesses: Fortunately for us Laker fans, Critt has shown a very balanced game. If you try to sag off him, he can hit from the perimeter. If you try to sit on his shot, you are toast of the dribble. If you try to push him right, he can easily go left and vice versa. If you make him a passer, he can do that. Defensively, again, he's well rounded. He can D-up penetration and contest drives with his length and hops. He can hang with his man on the perimeter reasonably well. His perimeter work defensively could certainly use more polishing, but none of that should be out of his reach development wise. He also tends to hang back on defensive rebounds, unlike some of the good rebounding guards who crash the glass.

If I were to game plan an attack against him right now, I'd make him make decisions off screens (take advantage of his inexperience, when to switch, when to go or under or fight over, when to spot off the ball switches, etc.). I would also run a lot of backdoor plays for his man. He is a little prone to ballwatching and giving up that baseline backdoor to his man (kind of like Kobe). His three shooting will need more consistency, so you might be able to sag just a hair or two off to give you some extra reaction time on his drive. Once he gets a little more used to the distance, it shouldn't be an issue.

Part of the knock on Critt was as a floor general and his decision making. He could certainly use the polishing and maturity in his game that the extra years of college would have brought. And if that happened, kiss goodbye to drafting him. Reminds me of when I was jocking Ben Gordon for the Laker pick before he returned to college for another year to improve his stock. He was out of our reach after that.

So, what you have is a player without major fundamental flaws which get easily exposed at the next level. We don't need him to be a floor general, which was a knock on him as a freshman. He has sick handles and an uber-quick first step, which can get him into the heart of the D. He's fearless. He can score on you a variety of ways. He imposes his will at the end of games. This is a future impact guard.

And the last spot on the roster goes to...

Coby Karl --

I think he's probably the guy who gets the nod, but Elton Brown and Larry Turner may have something to say about that. We are stacked at the bigman positions and the competition is a little less fierce in the backup SG/SF spots, which is why I think Karl may have a better chance. But what goes down in training camp will, of course, determine the outcome.

After a productive summer league where Karl averaged 12.2 points a game and worked within the offense fluidly, the Lakers signed him to a partially guaranteed deal. While the 12 points is a lot better than several of the top drafted prospects, the summer league box scores are something you want to take with a grain of salt. They really only show whether someone was aggressive and successful or whether they got shut down. Again, look at the transferable skills and the holes in the game, more than anything else.

The Lakers played Karl at both the 2 and 3 spots. For whatever reason, I kept seeing people mention him and the word "PG" in the same sentence every now and then. He is not a PG at the NBA level. He can play SG and some SF. He may not be the tallest player out there (6-3.5 w/o shoes, 6-4.75 with), but he has a 6-11 wingspan (8-3.5 standing reach) which makes up for where his head stops on the measuring stick.

Shooting... Karl uses that quick release of his to square up and let fly the NBA three ball with steady accuracy. His range is excellent. His form is a bit like a set shot, but with his quickness, it won't matter much. Shooting from distance is obviously a transferable skill. He can hit off the catch-and-shoot or off the dribble. He can also keep defenders honest with the ability to drive strong with either hand if they try to sit on his shot. He uses his body well and that wing span when finishing to draw fouls. More strength would allow him to finish more And-1's.

Passing... Within the system, he is a very good passer. He sees the plays develop before they happen. He showed Walton-like creativity taking a post pass off the weakside pinch post, then throwing the ball no-look-style between his legs to a cutter for a score on one play in Vegas. He also made some speedy, accurate post-entries off of quick ball movement. That said, he shows some poor judgement in the transition game. Some of his passes are slow developing or ill-advised. The faster defenders at this level picked off or disrupted a number of his passes. He will need to make an adjustment to the speed of the game.

Handles... Solid enough to bring the ball up court or attack with either hand if someone contests his shot or gets sucked in with a fake. Not solid enough to break down a defender on iso, nor does he have a quick first step. This is one of the reasons the Tri fits him so well. He is quick in his reads and utilizes the system and teammates with speed. If we needed him to iso and create, that won't play to his strengths.

Defensively... His lack of athleticism and footspeed will hurt. This is the biggest problem with his game and the weakness that will be exposed at the next level. Quicker, athletic guards will get past him and cause problems. Despite the crazy wingspan, it doesn't seem to come in play for steals or blocked shots. On the plus side, his effort is always there and he never seems to stop working or contesting shots. His size or strength shouldn't be a problem. As mentioned, he played both the 2 and 3 spots in Vegas. "He gives us something that we don’t have," BShaw said. "He gives us somebody that has more size. We have Kobe (Bryant) at (6-6). But this Coby brings physicality. He’s not afraid of contact."

Coby was spitting up a bit of blood and had to go to the locker room after one such play in the summer league.

His lack of athleticism defensively will be the issue that likely holds him to a bench role player. He will have to work on that as much as possible, but also carve out a niche as a spark offensively off the bench if he wants to stick.

While the bigger stories in training camp will be how Bynum looks, Mihm looks... as well as Farmar and Critt... Kobe's every facial expression... DFish back in the purple and gold... trying not to confuse Vlad and Sasha with their new heads of hair... it's certain that the battle for the final roster spot will be an intriguing sub plot.

Can't wait to see...
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OregonLakerGuy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject:

Thanks, as usual DB.
I am excited about our young talent and that was a wonderful preview of what to watch for.

Look forward to your ratings this season.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:48 am    Post subject:

Bravo! You know the season is near when DB brings his analysis. Thanks buddy!
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shane
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject:

Nice, thanks!
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject:

DB - it is great to have your detailed and specific breakdowns to review and learn.

Our "EB" (Elton Brown - not "Elton Brand" - sorry Emplay) might play a factor - depending on what happens to Kwame/LO/Mihm/Tufiaff/Bynum/Vlad

From your breakdown - a lineup of Jordan/Crit/Kobe/LO/Bynum might have some significant PT since it has a lot of firepower and the ability to defend. Then our bench would be Luke/Vlad/DFish/Kwame/MO - just a thought
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject:

Great read.

Regarding the way the team approaches pick and roll, is it part PJ'S philosophy for the PGS to go under screens instead of over (most of the time)? We saw this with fish couple of years ago, we saw this with William parker (didn't even bother to fight screens) we saw this with Sasha who blatantly went under screens against the best shooting pg in the league, Steve Nash. Is this part of PJ's strategy or is it's the lack of IQ of the laker PG's?

Regarding Jordan, when he had his little slump did you think it had to do more with a role change than an actual form slump? I recall him having a bit more freedom earlier on in the year but later on was used as a traditional triangle point guard which took away from his natural abilities ( his creating abilities). We've got two amazing young talented guards and so I'm scared PJ will inhibit their games.

And Regarding Javaris, Is it me or does he resemble Baron Davis? Not in the sense that he looks like him but the way he moves, ball fakes and attacks the rim is Baron Davis Esque. I honestly see him being a Baron Davis/ Dwayne wade hybrid. Combo Guard who has elite handles and attacks the rim relentlessly but has a good Jumper and good defense.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject:

Oh (bleep) a Dancing Barry thread? Let get this season started now!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject:

Great read , what nice way to have a resumé of some of the new players on our roster..
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:46 am    Post subject:

Nice take on Critt- I did not realize how ill fitted he was to the GT system. Those 4 years of running the triange in HS shined through in the SPL. What a great pick for the Lakers at 19!

What an exciting young core we have now- Bynum, Critt, Farmar & Tender Ronny.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB, LakersGround wouldn't be right without your smiley articles.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject:

DB smile ratings? ahh the season is getting close.

great read, thanks.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject:

Good read!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Nice take on Critt- I did not realize how ill fitted he was to the GT system. Those 4 years of running the triange in HS shined through in the SPL. What a great pick for the Lakers at 19!

What an exciting young core we have now- Bynum, Critt, Farmar & Tender Ronny.


el oh el
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject:

Like a warm blanket.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
Great read.

Regarding the way the team approaches pick and roll, is it part PJ'S philosophy for the PGS to go under screens instead of over (most of the time)? We saw this with fish couple of years ago, we saw this with William parker (didn't even bother to fight screens) we saw this with Sasha who blatantly went under screens against the best shooting pg in the league, Steve Nash. Is this part of PJ's strategy or is it's the lack of IQ of the laker PG's?


Obviously it should depend on the opponent and situation...but sometimes I think most of the guys do what they're used to. Farmar went over the top a lot. That's what he tries to do.


Quote:

Regarding Jordan, when he had his little slump did you think it had to do more with a role change than an actual form slump? I recall him having a bit more freedom earlier on in the year but later on was used as a traditional triangle point guard which took away from his natural abilities ( his creating abilities). We've got two amazing young talented guards and so I'm scared PJ will inhibit their games.


I think a lot of things came to play. He had some nice chemistry with a few players and the injuries took that out. He wasn't finishing as well in the lane as he had been early on. His aggressiveness seemed to definitely fade, but it also seemed to fade in his off the ball stuff, too. I thought he was a lot better early in the season off the ball, which is a definite Triangle guard skill...so I don't know that you could say he was forced into a being a Tri guard, when he wasn't doing some of the Tri guard things he had been doing so well early in the season.

During the summer, he definitely looked more of a traditional PG. More so than all of last year. He was very aggressive.

Quote:

And Regarding Javaris, Is it me or does he resemble Baron Davis? Not in the sense that he looks like him but the way he moves, ball fakes and attacks the rim is Baron Davis Esque. I honestly see him being a Baron Davis/ Dwayne wade hybrid. Combo Guard who has elite handles and attacks the rim relentlessly but has a good Jumper and good defense.


He's not as explosive as BDiddy. I don't think you'll ever see him throwdown like BD did in the playoffs last year (but he will throwdown). His three game also isn't quite as strong. He does have some of that showmanship that BD has, for sure. So, there are some traits there. As far as Wade...that combination of explosiveness and that huge wingspan that Wade has makes him a different category, IMO. I'm also not sure Javaris will want to take on as much contact as Wade does or did.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject:

excellent read
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Crit looks to me to be hybrid of Chauncey Billups and Baron Davis.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject:

thanks DB! you just put a huge smile on my face. after your first thoughts and ratings, the season is now officially close. thanks again for all your hardwork on these.

you deserve some smilies too. you getting the rocking trifecta:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Obviously it should depend on the opponent and situation...but sometimes I think most of the guys do what they're used to. Farmar went over the top a lot. That's what he tries to do.


Does that insinuate that PJ doesn't have a game plan to defend the pick and roll? We recall back in 2002 when Fisher went under the screen Multiple times against Bibby despite Bibby's jumper being on fire at the time (and his mediocre penetrating ability? I think someone pointed out PJ believed good offensive execution will bring good defense so you think he let's each player decide for themselves what to do when faced with a screen? I mean i have a hard time believing someone with as much experience as PJ would tell Fish to do that or to tell Sasha and Smush to do that.

Or could it be the player's refusing to listen to him?

I don't know, this issue always confused me.
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Christopher C
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
Quote:
Obviously it should depend on the opponent and situation...but sometimes I think most of the guys do what they're used to. Farmar went over the top a lot. That's what he tries to do.


Does that insinuate that PJ doesn't have a game plan to defend the pick and roll? We recall back in 2002 when Fisher went under the screen Multiple times against Bibby despite Bibby's jumper being on fire at the time (and his mediocre penetrating ability? I think someone pointed out PJ believed good offensive execution will bring good defense so you think he let's each player decide for themselves what to do when faced with a screen? I mean i have a hard time believing someone with as much experience as PJ would tell Fish to do that or to tell Sasha and Smush to do that.

Or could it be the player's refusing to listen to him?

I don't know, this issue always confused me.


It has a lot to do with how good of a screen is being set. It's instinctual for the defender to gauge how good of a screen is being set and whether to go under or over. The desicion of going over or under happens in a split second, and thats where instinct comes into play.

Instinct goes out the window when someone (PJ) specifically tells the defender to go over the screen every time, and then the defender has to be thinking 'go over the screen' 'go over the screen.'

and you know what Stu says about thinking... it weakens the team.
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prisma8slg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:16 am    Post subject:

B_Rabbit1212 wrote:
DB smile ratings? ahh the season is getting close.


my thoughts exactly. thanks DB
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melo061
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject:

TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
melo061 wrote:
Quote:
Obviously it should depend on the opponent and situation...but sometimes I think most of the guys do what they're used to. Farmar went over the top a lot. That's what he tries to do.


Does that insinuate that PJ doesn't have a game plan to defend the pick and roll? We recall back in 2002 when Fisher went under the screen Multiple times against Bibby despite Bibby's jumper being on fire at the time (and his mediocre penetrating ability? I think someone pointed out PJ believed good offensive execution will bring good defense so you think he let's each player decide for themselves what to do when faced with a screen? I mean i have a hard time believing someone with as much experience as PJ would tell Fish to do that or to tell Sasha and Smush to do that.

Or could it be the player's refusing to listen to him?

I don't know, this issue always confused me.


It has a lot to do with how good of a screen is being set. It's instinctual for the defender to gauge how good of a screen is being set and whether to go under or over. The desicion of going over or under happens in a split second, and thats where instinct comes into play.

Instinct goes out the window when someone (PJ) specifically tells the defender to go over the screen every time, and then the defender has to be thinking 'go over the screen' 'go over the screen.'

and you know what Stu says about thinking... it weakens the team.


Thanks for the clarification. I just don't understand how someone with the iq of fish can make defensive blunders like that which to me seems like something you learn in high school. It seems to be a trait with PJ coached teams, they never can guard the pick and roll (even though the bulls did a good job ).
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Christopher C
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
melo061 wrote:
Quote:
Obviously it should depend on the opponent and situation...but sometimes I think most of the guys do what they're used to. Farmar went over the top a lot. That's what he tries to do.


Does that insinuate that PJ doesn't have a game plan to defend the pick and roll? We recall back in 2002 when Fisher went under the screen Multiple times against Bibby despite Bibby's jumper being on fire at the time (and his mediocre penetrating ability? I think someone pointed out PJ believed good offensive execution will bring good defense so you think he let's each player decide for themselves what to do when faced with a screen? I mean i have a hard time believing someone with as much experience as PJ would tell Fish to do that or to tell Sasha and Smush to do that.

Or could it be the player's refusing to listen to him?

I don't know, this issue always confused me.


It has a lot to do with how good of a screen is being set. It's instinctual for the defender to gauge how good of a screen is being set and whether to go under or over. The desicion of going over or under happens in a split second, and thats where instinct comes into play.

Instinct goes out the window when someone (PJ) specifically tells the defender to go over the screen every time, and then the defender has to be thinking 'go over the screen' 'go over the screen.'

and you know what Stu says about thinking... it weakens the team.


Thanks for the clarification. I just don't understand how someone with the iq of fish can make defensive blunders like that which to me seems like something you learn in high school. It seems to be a trait with PJ coached teams, they never can guard the pick and roll (even though the bulls did a good job ).


Well, i'm sure you've noticed the difference between Kwame and Shaq in this instance. It's not all Fish's fault... it really helps to have the big man jump the gaurd thats going around the screen, and then quickly rotate back to the screener. Thats something that Kwame is pretty good at when he's healthy.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject:

I just hope that Critt gets enough playing time to develop. The Lakers need two more impact players, besides Kobe and Lamar, to become dangerous.
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