The Official Lamar Odom Thread 0f 2008-2009
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject:

If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject:

What the Lakers don't need again is kobe wearing himself out on Pierce is really to big and strong for him. If you were to go with that lineup it should be Ariza on Pierce. To further optimize Gasol and Socks, you use Odom and put 6'10 Odom who is playing great defense this year on Pierce and now lets see him get Playoffs MVP. Pierce also cannot cover LO. It would be something beautiful to watch...

This is where we disagree, completely. Bryant's strength is his ability to play both sides of the ball. He's our best on-the-ball defender. I'd want him guarding McGrady or Artest, Pierce, Wade, Lebron James. Odom can't defend Cuttino Mobley, yet he's got a shot against Pierce? That's almost laughable. Ariza's length and quickness is a better matchup for Raymond Allen, a catch and shoot specialist. Ariza has the ability to recover quickly.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.



Lamar will never start again barring an injury to Bynum or Pau.

Phil doesn't want Lamar starting anymore because Lamar is just a complimentary part and non-assertive.

Vlad will continue to start or Trevor will start if Vlad can't.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.


No, Socks is still in class. He is being tentative because of that leg, but he may snap out of that soon... If the Lakers can just find a way to completely mix those two big guys, and make them compliment each other the rest can just sit back and damned near relax.... They Lakers have to make that work...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject:

why is it laughable for odom to defend pierce? thats the best matchup against pierce for lakers
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
What the Lakers don't need again is kobe wearing himself out on Pierce is really to big and strong for him. If you were to go with that lineup it should be Ariza on Pierce. To further optimize Gasol and Socks, you use Odom and put 6'10 Odom who is playing great defense this year on Pierce and now lets see him get Playoffs MVP. Pierce also cannot cover LO. It would be something beautiful to watch...

This is where we disagree, completely. Bryant's strength is his ability to play both sides of the ball. He's our best on-the-ball defender. I'd want him guarding McGrady or Artest, Pierce, Wade, Lebron James. Odom can't defend Cuttino Mobley, yet he's got a shot against Pierce? That's almost laughable. Ariza's length and quickness is a better matchup for Raymond Allen, a catch and shoot specialist. Ariza has the ability to recover quickly.


Pierce or any of the others you are mentioning are not as quick as Mobley who for all intents and purposes is a 2 playing the 3. Kobe used to cover him a few seasons back.
If Kobe is able to handle Pierce so well, why did Pierce drive him into the pavement?
Paul Pierce is just to strong for Kobe and believe it. LO played pierce in the past when he was playing the 3. There is a huge difference between the players you listed...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject:

Big Chief Triangle wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.



Lamar will never start again barring an injury to Bynum or Pau.

Phil doesn't want Lamar starting anymore because Lamar is just a complimentary part and non-assertive.

Vlad will continue to start or Trevor will start if Vlad can't.


It's to bad you really can't get over the past situations... You are about to miss a great season by doing your best to not acknowledge a player that is bringing it every game. Pay attention one time if you don't believe it...
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject:

If Kobe is able to handle Pierce so well, why did Pierce drive him into the pavement?

No one to block his shot. He wasn't scared of Gasol or Odom. He got layup after layup. Game changes with Bynum.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Last year, Odom had to play PF against the Celtics, not no more.

With Bynum back, I expect to see plenty of Odom and Ariza on Paul Pierce.

Shoot me if Phil Jackson puts Vladrad on Paul Pierce again.


Last edited by Bynum4MVP on Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
Big Chief Triangle wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.



Lamar will never start again barring an injury to Bynum or Pau.

Phil doesn't want Lamar starting anymore because Lamar is just a complimentary part and non-assertive.

Vlad will continue to start or Trevor will start if Vlad can't.


It's to bad you really can't get over the past situations... You are about to miss a great season by doing your best to not acknowledge a player that is bringing it every game. Pay attention one time if you don't believe it...




Shoes I don't deny that Lamar is playing great right now.

But I can't root for a guy that could have been Mr. Los Angeles but chose to not put forth the effort.


I'm happy for the Lakers that they found a way for Lamar to be productive but I can't support Lamar because he copped out.

It's truly a shame because Lamar could have been more just a bench role player
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:11 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
If Kobe is able to handle Pierce so well, why did Pierce drive him into the pavement?

No one to block his shot. He wasn't scared of Gasol or Odom. He got layup after layup. Game changes with Bynum.


HHHHHaaaa yeah right! Lets get Socks into foul trouble as soon as possible.

kobe goes 6'6 205... Pierce goes 6'7 235... Odom= 6'10 230, giving up only 5lbs and an advantage of 3 inches with a wing span that makes it more than that.
You combine Odom with Socks in the paint and Pierce will be slowed down...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Bynum4MVP wrote:
Last year, Odom had to play PF against the Celtics, not no more.

With Bynum back, I expect to see plenty of Odom and Ariza on Paul Pierce.

Shoot me if Phil Jackson puts Vladrad on Paul Pierce again.


NO, shoot Phil if he does that!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Big Chief Triangle wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
Big Chief Triangle wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
If Odom starts, then Bynum goes to the bench. That's the only way that works.



Lamar will never start again barring an injury to Bynum or Pau.

Phil doesn't want Lamar starting anymore because Lamar is just a complimentary part and non-assertive.

Vlad will continue to start or Trevor will start if Vlad can't.


It's to bad you really can't get over the past situations... You are about to miss a great season by doing your best to not acknowledge a player that is bringing it every game. Pay attention one time if you don't believe it...




Shoes I don't deny that Lamar is playing great right now.

But I can't root for a guy that could have been Mr. Los Angeles but chose to not put forth the effort.


I'm happy for the Lakers that they found a way for Lamar to be productive but I can't support Lamar because he copped out.

It's truly a shame because Lamar could have been more just a bench role player


Yes, because bitterness has it's place in Fandome... Go right ahead...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
If Kobe is able to handle Pierce so well, why did Pierce drive him into the pavement?

No one to block his shot. He wasn't scared of Gasol or Odom. He got layup after layup. Game changes with Bynum.


HHHHHaaaa yeah right! Lets get Socks into foul trouble as soon as possible.

kobe goes 6'6 205... Pierce goes 6'7 235... Odom= 6'10 230, giving up only 5lbs and an advantage of 3 inches with a wing span that makes it more than that.
You combine Odom with Socks in the paint and Pierce will be slowed down...


Like Kobe was?

Not really... Pierce got layups because Gasol and Odom weren't a threat to block his shot on the drive. He was fearless. He'd get a layup or free throws. Our interior was labeled, "Soft", because of that. Odom didn't do anything to help the cause ... Actually, the reason why the paint was soo conjested was because of Odom. He absolutely refused to take shots outside of the paint. When Chad Ford asked him why he wasn't, he said he was playing the percentages.

Bynum and Gasol in the paint is far more intimidating than Odom. Infact, Gasol has more range than Odom. Which compounded the problem. Gasol shot from outside, Odom shot under the rim. In a sense, Gasol was playing PF while Odom was playing C.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
If Kobe is able to handle Pierce so well, why did Pierce drive him into the pavement?

No one to block his shot. He wasn't scared of Gasol or Odom. He got layup after layup. Game changes with Bynum.


HHHHHaaaa yeah right! Lets get Socks into foul trouble as soon as possible.

kobe goes 6'6 205... Pierce goes 6'7 235... Odom= 6'10 230, giving up only 5lbs and an advantage of 3 inches with a wing span that makes it more than that.
You combine Odom with Socks in the paint and Pierce will be slowed down...


Like Kobe was?

Not really... Pierce got layups because Gasol and Odom weren't a threat to block his shot on the drive. He was fearless. He'd get a layup or free throws. Our interior was labeled, "Soft", because of that. Odom didn't do anything to help the cause ... Actually, the reason why the paint was soo conjested was because of Odom. He absolutely refused to take shots outside of the paint. When Chad Ford asked him why he wasn't, he said he was playing the percentages.

Bynum and Gasol in the paint is far more intimidating than Odom. Infact, Gasol has more range than Odom. Which compounded the problem. Gasol shot from outside, Odom shot under the rim. In a sense, Gasol was playing PF while Odom was playing C.


Uh, I hate to tell you this Ming but LO was covering Perkins on defense so he pretty much had to stay in the paint on defense. Here is something else you didn't know. Some of Pierce's shots were driving through the lane, but he was pumping the J with a frequency as well, so I doubt that any of that is valid about Odom's position in the paint.

Odom had no business taking any outside shots in the position he was playing when you really think about it. Vlad, Fish, and Kobe should have been the culprits from a far anyway. Only in Laker land do the fans pile on there 4 for not launching treys...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject:

I know Odom was on Perkins. Kendrick stayed under the basket the entire time. Just like Odom. Conjested the paint, Kobe didn't get easy shots.

If Odom stepped out of the paint, to take outside jumpers, Perkins steps out from under the basket... Lane opens up... Kobe gets a layup. But Odom stayed under the basket. He shot a high percentage... So that's good for him. But he did next to nothing to open the court for his teammates. He didn't make anyone else better.

Pierce caught fire against Radmanovic, but Bryant did provide far more resistance. The only problem was the protection at the rim. What good is Bruce Bowen, without Tim Duncan? Bynum changes the Game. As does Ariza... Another mismatch was Vujacic on Raymond Allen.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject:

LO has been balling this year. Defensively he's been awesome. I would love to see him in there with KGB as the year wears on. Drew/Gasol/LO would give Perkins/KG/PP fits IMO. After watching 11 games this year, and as much as I wanted Ariza to start, I'll concede that he is best suited coming off the bench as of right now. LO with Drew/Gasol is our best chance at getting rid of Boston for good with Ariza/Vlad backing him up.

As THE_SHOES noted, LO matches up really well with PP size wise. PP cannot post up LO as easy as he would Vlad/Ariza/Luke - especially with two agile 7 footers anchoring the paint behind him. If PP gets by LO, Drew is waiting. KG is a jump shooting PF that will draw Gasol out of the paint and he will absolutely NOT post up with 2-7 footers in the paint. Eventually LO will be out there with KGB. Right now LO is best suited stabilizing the 2nd unit - while Drew/Gasol gels. Once Drew and Gasol's respective games continue to compliment each other - and if Vlad goes Space Cadet for extended stretches - watch PJ insert LO back into the starting lineup.

Vlad's jumper has been inconsistent at best this year. So the theory that he provides spacing for KGB is disproved IMO. LO's jumper has been adequate this year because he is being assertive. He will make us the #1 rebounding team again (Philly is #1 right now) which is huge when we sometimes don't shoot a high percentage. We would have multiple extra possessions with LO out there at SF playing a team like Boston. This is big because extra possessions would put pressure on that vaunted Celtic defense which will sometimes reduce our shooting %'s. We could make them work for extended stretches which most teams cannot do. Bottom line, I've been pleased with LO this year - even moreso than his playoff run - sans the Finals. Don't be surprised that by the ASB, LO is our starting SF.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject:

If it weren't for the fact that Odom has been awesome at leading the 2nd unit, Vlad would have lost his starting job by now.

I'm torn between keeping Odom as the leader of the excellent bench mob and his benefits as a starter.

Ariza is definitely better off the bench. He's much better in run and gun than a half-court set.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:41 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I know Odom was on Perkins. Kendrick stayed under the basket the entire time. Just like Odom. Conjested the paint, Kobe didn't get easy shots.

If Odom stepped out of the paint, to take outside jumpers, Perkins steps out from under the basket... Lane opens up... Kobe gets a layup. But Odom stayed under the basket. He shot a high percentage... So that's good for him. But he did next to nothing to open the court for his teammates. He didn't make anyone else better.

Pierce caught fire against Radmanovic, but Bryant did provide far more resistance. The only problem was the protection at the rim. What good is Bruce Bowen, without Tim Duncan? Bynum changes the Game. As does Ariza... Another mismatch was Vujacic on Raymond Allen.


JUST-MING;
This may come as a revelation to you but that was LAST YEAR. I get the impression you're not a fan of LO so I just thought I make mention of that. This Laker addition is totally different in makeup and attitude. Let's wait until the 25th to make any assertions.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I know Odom was on Perkins. Kendrick stayed under the basket the entire time. Just like Odom. Conjested the paint, Kobe didn't get easy shots.

If Odom stepped out of the paint, to take outside jumpers, Perkins steps out from under the basket... Lane opens up... Kobe gets a layup. But Odom stayed under the basket. He shot a high percentage... So that's good for him. But he did next to nothing to open the court for his teammates. He didn't make anyone else better.

Pierce caught fire against Radmanovic, but Bryant did provide far more resistance. The only problem was the protection at the rim. What good is Bruce Bowen, without Tim Duncan? Bynum changes the Game. As does Ariza... Another mismatch was Vujacic on Raymond Allen.


JUST-MING;
This may come as a revelation to you but that was LAST YEAR. I get the impression you're not a fan of LO so I just thought I make mention of that. This Laker addition is totally different in makeup and attitude. Let's wait until the 25th to make any assertions.


What does being a "fan" of his have to do with anything? I'm not a cheerleader. I would've dealt Butler for Boozer and Odom for Artest in 2005. Not because I like them any more or less, but those trades would've made the Lakers better, and we would've been closer to a championship.

I don't want to bicker about how he plays from game to game, I'll reserve judgement until the trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject:

Bynum4MVP wrote:
If it weren't for the fact that Odom has been awesome at leading the 2nd unit, Vlad would have lost his starting job by now.

I'm torn between keeping Odom as the leader of the excellent bench mob and his benefits as a starter.

Ariza is definitely better off the bench. He's much better in run and gun than a half-court set.


I'm fine with the way things are now. What I'd be more interested in knowing is who will close out most of the Lakers games and specifically when we play Boston in the finals.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
What the Lakers don't need again is kobe wearing himself out on Pierce is really to big and strong for him. If you were to go with that lineup it should be Ariza on Pierce. To further optimize Gasol and Socks, you use Odom and put 6'10 Odom who is playing great defense this year on Pierce and now lets see him get Playoffs MVP. Pierce also cannot cover LO. It would be something beautiful to watch...

This is where we disagree, completely. Bryant's strength is his ability to play both sides of the ball. He's our best on-the-ball defender. I'd want him guarding McGrady or Artest, Pierce, Wade, Lebron James. Odom can't defend Cuttino Mobley, yet he's got a shot against Pierce? That's almost laughable. Ariza's length and quickness is a better matchup for Raymond Allen, a catch and shoot specialist. Ariza has the ability to recover quickly.
Oh stop it about Mobley. he was the best defender on Pierce in the finals .Van gundy kept saying over and over. Sorry Charlie but Kobe is not an alien. The Alien worship is overdone.He cant guard Pierce that well. KObe= Allen. Pierce=LO and Ariza.Ariza is too skinny to guard Pierce too much.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I know Odom was on Perkins. Kendrick stayed under the basket the entire time. Just like Odom. Conjested the paint, Kobe didn't get easy shots.

If Odom stepped out of the paint, to take outside jumpers, Perkins steps out from under the basket... Lane opens up... Kobe gets a layup. But Odom stayed under the basket. He shot a high percentage... So that's good for him. But he did next to nothing to open the court for his teammates. He didn't make anyone else better.

Pierce caught fire against Radmanovic, but Bryant did provide far more resistance. The only problem was the protection at the rim. What good is Bruce Bowen, without Tim Duncan? Bynum changes the Game. As does Ariza... Another mismatch was Vujacic on Raymond Allen.
So if Lo played just a little differnt we would have won the finals? LO the Laker savior? If VRad, Sasha,Fish,Kobe hit their 3s we open the floor. What was their shooting percentage? the Celtics were better. they won. GG
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject:

Odom isn't why the Lakers lost the finals, though his inability to shoot midrange fed into Boston's successful defensive strategy. The perception coming out of that also fed into Jackson's thinking that Odom is a bad fit with Pau and Bynum on the floor.

Lamar supporters can claim Odom can play well at 3 all they want but there's a reason we have yet to see Lamar at 3 with the other two bigs on the floor at the same time. Jackson doesn't trust the spacing with Lamar in that lineup and he knows that Lamar as 6th man is best for the team and Odom's open court game leading the second unit.

Therefore pining for Odom to start doesn't seem to make much sense. Is it best for the team? No. It's best for the Odom-first fan so they can say "see, see!" in this thread.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I know Odom was on Perkins.


but...

well i think u know what im going to say
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