WE GOT ARTEST! (5-Yr MLE, Could opt out after 3)
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject:

Artest is a headcase ballhog... Ariza knows his role.
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Baylor22
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject:

for the same price, I suppose that I would prefer Ariza. He's still got upside going forward and knows the system. Also, I'm confident that Phil could deal with Artest given Phil's past experience with "unique" personalities but how much longer is Phil here?

But the choice may be Ariza at a higher price (esp. if Toronto jumps into the Turkeyglue sweepstakes) versus Artest at the MLE. That makes it a tougher call.
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ck4573
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Artest is better equipped to defend guys like Jefferson, Carmelo, Lebron, and Pierce than Ariza. He's also a better 3-point shooter.

Other than a couple, albeit critical steals, Ariza's D is nothing to write home about. But you could say that with Artest, we wouldn't have been put in that position, because he would have forced Carmelo to shoot something like 5-14, 5-18 all day.
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RePLAY
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Artest > Ariza

You guys are a bunch of homers. lol
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Great One
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject:

RePLAY wrote:
Artest > Ariza

You guys are a bunch of homers. lol


why, because Ariza has proven to win us championships?

what has Artest proven?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.

Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.
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iam
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Great One wrote:
RePLAY wrote:
Artest > Ariza

You guys are a bunch of homers. lol


why, because Ariza has proven to win us championships?

what has Artest proven?


Are you suggesting that we wouldn't have won if Artest was in the starting lineup this year?
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KOBEGASOL
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Artest on Lakers vs Lebron in Finals = Artest > Ariza
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sone212
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject:

ck4573 wrote:
Other than a couple, albeit critical steals, Ariza's D is nothing to write home about.


They helped the Lakers win the NBA championship. If that's nothing that write home about, I don't know what is.

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But you could say that with Artest, we wouldn't have been put in that position, because he would have forced Carmelo to shoot something like 5-14, 5-18 all day.


We can imagine any scenario we want to fit what we like, but the Lakers got results from Ariza, championship results. All the Bulls, Pacers, Kings and the Rockets got was a head case.
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2The4th
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Ariza is a role player, while Artest is an all star.

How many people in NBA can create their own shots?

Ariza can't.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject:

And the Lakers don't need him to. Are we talking about the Lakers or some other team?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject:

nokio wrote:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.

Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.


Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject:

iam wrote:
Great One wrote:
RePLAY wrote:
Artest > Ariza

You guys are a bunch of homers. lol


why, because Ariza has proven to win us championships?

what has Artest proven?


Are you suggesting that we wouldn't have won if Artest was in the starting lineup this year?


I would suggest that it would be a distinct possibility.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Great One wrote:
RePLAY wrote:
Artest > Ariza

You guys are a bunch of homers. lol


why, because Ariza has proven to win us championships?

what has Artest proven?


That he can lead a team to 7 games against the World champs.

If you had to pay a guy the same amount of money, you would chose Ariza? oh god.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.


I don't get the ballhog comment. When I think of ballhog, I think of Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Marbury, etc. Just because he's got the ability to create his own shots and yes, he gets in trouble w/ over dribbling doesn't make him a ball hog. He is a willing passer.
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ck4573
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject:

RealGm is reporting that the Cavaliers are going after Artest(surprised they took this long.) Now that's going to be very interesting.
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2The4th
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
nokio wrote:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.

Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.


Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.


Artest can score while posting. He'd be perfect for the high post. As for ball hog or not, players can change their styles of play. Ariza's is a ball hog too. I still remember him jacking up jumper after jumper. However, there's no deny that Artest can give Lakers another layer of offense if the triangle, the pick n' roll stop working.
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sone212
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject:

RePLAY wrote:
If you had to pay a guy the same amount of money, you would chose Ariza? oh god.


Over Ron Artest? Absolutely. He's younger, not a headcase, has more of an upside and is a better fit for this Lakers team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject:

iam wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.


I don't get the ballhog comment. When I think of ballhog, I think of Allen Iverson, Monta Ellis, Marbury, etc. Just because he's got the ability to create his own shots and yes, he gets in trouble w/ over dribbling doesn't make him a ball hog. He is a willing passer.


Sometimes he's a willing passer, have you watched him play much? He often dribbles, dribbles, and dribbles...Besides his head, the other reason Artest has not arrived where he should have as a player is because he sees his ball handling and shot creating skills as being far above his actual ability.

All the skills that were listed about as being all in favor of Artest, I think one could argue most of those categories in THIS years playoffs. Now given Ariza has is much younger and MUCH less experienced, it is very difficult to say who will have the better skills going forward.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject:

No question talent Artest > Ariza.

Not sure about his emotional state.

But given the chance, I would definately take Artest. I like Ariza, he does well within his skills, but not same category as Artest.
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2The4th
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject:

There's only one thing Ariza is better than Artest

Stealing ball

I don't think it's fair to give credit to Ariza's 3 pt ability. Most of those shots are open shot. Double teaming Kobe created those open shots. Artest had and could make those open shots. The guy is proven.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject:

We need to take Artest to keep him from the Cavs!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject:

sone212 wrote:
RePLAY wrote:
If you had to pay a guy the same amount of money, you would chose Ariza? oh god.


Over Ron Artest? Absolutely. He's younger, not a headcase, has more of an upside and is a better fit for this Lakers team.


Younger, yes. Not a headcase, probably.

We wont know if Artest is a better fit since we dont have him. "Upside" for Ariza? Artest is already there.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject:

2The4th wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
nokio wrote:
Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.

Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise.


Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle.


Artest can score while posting. He'd be perfect for the high post. As for ball hog or not, players can change their styles of play. Ariza's is a ball hog too. I still remember him jacking up jumper after jumper. However, there's no deny that Artest can give Lakers another layer of offense if the triangle, the pick n' roll stop working.


That's the way to add to your title team, bring in a player and "hope" that he can change the ways he has exhibited so far in his career. For vet min maybe, ala JR Rider. That way if he acts up, he can be gone easily.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject:

What's sad about this whole thing is that the Lakers could actually have LO, Ariza and Artest at the same time if I'm not mistaken. If the Lakers had an owner like Mark Cuban, this would not be an issue and the Lakers would be more about winning that money.
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