View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Spill512 Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 May 2014 Posts: 212
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm more upset that we wasted some of his prime years with that garbage around him. They weren't even trying. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
kobeandgary wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Rebuilding was the way to go. Dr Buss called his bluff and Kobe backtracked. It worked out great for us Laker fans. |
don't really remember kobe bluffing or backtracking or Dr. Buss calling it, i remember Kobe being lied to by the front office and getting fed up with it, they finally owned up to there word and brought in talent and we of course went on to win two more rings. |
To refresh your memory, Dr. Buss went out and found a trade for Kobe, and once Kobe saw how that would result, backed off of his demands and when the season started, played like Kobe. How can you remember Kobe being lied to by the FO? Were you there? What lies were told? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
akk7 wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | It was hiring Phil that calmed Kobe down. When they hired Phil, he was more confident that the Lakers were about winning. And they were.
Ironically, Kobe and Phil were still thought to be on very bad terms at the time. But Kobe knew Phil would not tolerate any BS from the FO and Im sure he saw Phil as an ally.. After all, they both had a common goal. Win. Just win. Worked out fine. |
Phil was coaching the team when he demanded the trade. He came back, coached Kobe for 2 seasons and then Kobe demanded the trade.
What calmed Kobe down was the early success of the Lakers in 07 due to the emergence of Andrew Bynum, who has a bad rep now as a slacker, but at that time I remember him as an extremely hard worker and then ultimately Pau Gasol. Phil obviously had something to do with all of this clicking, but it wasn't Phil who calmed him down.
Tangent, but Bynum now has the rep of a slacker/lazy individual, but Bynum in his early stages was a guy who was known to work hard, lost a lot of weight, got extremely good, and even played in pain for the Lakers in 2010. |
Knowing how Phil works, it is more likely he fired Kobe up than that he calmed him down. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Remember when Kobe requested to be traded? |
|
|
J.C. Smith wrote: | The front office made the right decisions there. That team was making good progress. They nearly upset the Suns in the first round one year, then started the next season 26-12 before injuries really hurt them and they wound up collapsing down the stretch. But the reality is they then started the next season on fire with basically the exact same team again, the only addition was the Ariza trade early in the year. And then of course they landed Gasol with some of the assets they had been accruing and went to three straight titles.
Kobe just lost patience at that point. He saw Lebron having an easy run through the East and a young Bulls team and concern over his legacy had him wanting to jump ship. But the moves that infuriated him were all moves that would have crippled the Lakers. He was upset about not trading for Jermaine O'Neal or Jason Kidd right before they joined the senior league. If the Lakers did the moves that would have appeased to him in the short term the team would have never won titles, and he would have demanded a trade a year or two later for the same legacy reasons. That was a big deal for him because if he never won another title people would say he never won a title as the primary option or that he never won a title without Shaq.
Mitch was building then the same way he is building now. Slow and steady. Fans got frustrated because there were no big moves being made. He seemed hesitant to pull the trigger. But the moves he passed on, all wound up being the right decision. The only really bad move he made during that period of time was the Kwame trade, which was driven by Phil and which was considered a home run swing. They knew the risk but felt he was worth the gamble. Of course Butler would go on to be an all-star, but Kwame did help them net Gasol. And I see similar things happening now. Two guys fans are angry that the Lakers didn't chase this summer, Thomas and Stephenson have both been problems in the locker room. Nobody wants Stephenson and the Suns traded Thomas even knowing they were trading Dragic. While I certainly wish they would have gotten something for Gasol, (or Hill this year) if teams aren't giving fair offers, I can understand the notion of not giving away an asset for free. It hurts his ability to make favorable deals in the future if teams think they can run over him. |
Just my opinion, but I think that the breaking point for Kobe was DWade winning a title with Shaq. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | Big difference this time around. Jerry West ain't doing us any favors.
Back then, Jerry hooked his apprentice (mitch) up with Pau.
Nowadays, he has a lesser role in GS and I doubt he'd support any Laker trade for Klay. |
I am assuming that the fact that Jerry West had left the Grizzlies the season before Pau was traded kind of makes these comments incorrect. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29384 Location: La La Land
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | kikanga wrote: | Big difference this time around. Jerry West ain't doing us any favors.
Back then, Jerry hooked his apprentice (mitch) up with Pau.
Nowadays, he has a lesser role in GS and I doubt he'd support any Laker trade for Klay. |
I am assuming that the fact that Jerry West had left the Grizzlies the season before Pau was traded kind of makes these comments incorrect. |
It makes it my conspiracy theory.
That trade was lopsided. Alot of NBA fans who are non-laker fans think so. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
akk7 Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 3013
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | akk7 wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | It was hiring Phil that calmed Kobe down. When they hired Phil, he was more confident that the Lakers were about winning. And they were.
Ironically, Kobe and Phil were still thought to be on very bad terms at the time. But Kobe knew Phil would not tolerate any BS from the FO and Im sure he saw Phil as an ally.. After all, they both had a common goal. Win. Just win. Worked out fine. |
Phil was coaching the team when he demanded the trade. He came back, coached Kobe for 2 seasons and then Kobe demanded the trade.
What calmed Kobe down was the early success of the Lakers in 07 due to the emergence of Andrew Bynum, who has a bad rep now as a slacker, but at that time I remember him as an extremely hard worker and then ultimately Pau Gasol. Phil obviously had something to do with all of this clicking, but it wasn't Phil who calmed him down. |
That's right. Over the last seven years, I've found it fascinating to see people like the OP try to re-write history to make Kobe's actions defensible or even heroic. The reality is that Kobe got the chance to be the centerpiece of the team after the Shaq trade, got frustrated when the re-build took longer than he expected, demanded a trade, and then used his no-trade clause as a veto power over any trades that did not suit his personal tastes. He made a fool of himself, and thus we get the revisionist history.
Recently, I've been sort of amused by Kobe's ongoing efforts to control the discussion of his own legacy, the latest installment being Muse. Kobe is essentially trying to write his own obituary. Anyway, I laughed when Kobe told an interviewer that leaving the Lakers just wasn't his style, or whatever the exact words were. Yeah, right. In 2007, he didn't leave because he wanted to dictate the terms of the trade in his favor. In 2015, he isn't leaving because no one would take his contract, even if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Kobe is entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. But he can't erase the Pluto comment from history just because it's inconvenient for his narrative. |
I don't blame him though. I understood his frustration even though I didn't like it. The supporting cast around him was horrible. However, a rebuild takes time and that's something he didn't want to give. Understandable. I didn't want him to leave, but if it happened I didn't really care at that point.
For some reason during that time I never was worried about him leaving. Even with Bucher saying Kobe is done with the Lakers, I never bought it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58349
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Remember when Kobe requested to be traded? |
|
|
J.C. Smith wrote: | The front office made the right decisions there. That team was making good progress. They nearly upset the Suns in the first round one year, then started the next season 26-12 before injuries really hurt them and they wound up collapsing down the stretch. But the reality is they then started the next season on fire with basically the exact same team again, the only addition was the Ariza trade early in the year. And then of course they landed Gasol with some of the assets they had been accruing and went to three straight titles.
Kobe just lost patience at that point. He saw Lebron having an easy run through the East and a young Bulls team and concern over his legacy had him wanting to jump ship. But the moves that infuriated him were all moves that would have crippled the Lakers. He was upset about not trading for Jermaine O'Neal or Jason Kidd right before they joined the senior league. If the Lakers did the moves that would have appeased to him in the short term the team would have never won titles, and he would have demanded a trade a year or two later for the same legacy reasons. That was a big deal for him because if he never won another title people would say he never won a title as the primary option or that he never won a title without Shaq.
Mitch was building then the same way he is building now. Slow and steady. Fans got frustrated because there were no big moves being made. He seemed hesitant to pull the trigger. But the moves he passed on, all wound up being the right decision. The only really bad move he made during that period of time was the Kwame trade, which was driven by Phil and which was considered a home run swing. They knew the risk but felt he was worth the gamble. Of course Butler would go on to be an all-star, but Kwame did help them net Gasol. And I see similar things happening now. Two guys fans are angry that the Lakers didn't chase this summer, Thomas and Stephenson have both been problems in the locker room. Nobody wants Stephenson and the Suns traded Thomas even knowing they were trading Dragic. While I certainly wish they would have gotten something for Gasol, (or Hill this year) if teams aren't giving fair offers, I can understand the notion of not giving away an asset for free. It hurts his ability to make favorable deals in the future if teams think they can run over him. |
Spot on.
Fantastic post by a fantastic poster. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aussiesuede Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A return to 2007:
Quote: | The story is that Kobe Bryant signed a 7-year deal with the Lakers back in the summer of 2004 when Shaquille O'Neal and Phil Jackson were let go because he was promised that the Lakers' priority was to build a championship-contending team around Kobe Bryant IMMEDIATELY. Personally, I think the 7-year deal is crazy. I know everybody wants to become the "face of the franchise" by sticking to a team their whole career, but come on man, give yourself some breathing room. After a couple of playoff disappointments, Kobe Bryant had a conversation with Phil Jackson which "opened his eyes". The highlight of the conversation that lit Bryant's ass on fire? Phil Jackson told Kobe Bryant of the reason why he was let go a few years ago: The Lakers wanted to cut back on the payroll and prioritize long-term rebuilding. In other words, considering Phil Jackson's statements were 100% accurate, the Lakers lied to Kobe Bryant. If I was asked to put the words out bluntly, I'd say the Lakers screwed Kobe Bryant in the ass. Personally, I think Kobe Bryant is just frustrated. I don't really think he's angry directly towards the issue of "rebuilding". I don't think he's dumb enough not to realize that the drafting of Andrew Bynum meant waiting for another 5-years of development and playoff disappointments. Kobe is extremely frustrated at another disappointing season, and frustration leads to finger-pointing and wrongful accusations. Although I do agree that the Lakers front office has been a joke, you can't blame them for all that has gone wrong for the team in the past few years. Oh wait, yes you can.
I think this almost guarantees some blockbuster moves in the off-season. Will we be seeing the likes of Jermaine O'Neal and Ron Artest in the Lakers with Kobe Bryant? That looks so damn good on paper. I doubt Kobe can stand another disappointing season after this one. He is spent, and this tirade shows evidences of it.
As of this moment, Kobe Bryant is on a rampage. He already came off two radio stations earlier, at this rate, he'd be on the headline of the United Nation's priority list. Before we know it, Kobe Bryant will be going Chuck Norris in the Lakers' front office.
I admire Kobe Bryant's eagerness to win, but I'd suggest that he take a break. The playoffs aren't even over yet and he's already heating up the off-season talk. Save some steam Kobe, chill out at the beach, or better yet, lie naked in the north pole for a few days to clear your head.
You've got to give credit to the current Lakers roster though. If Kobe Bryant had legit teammates, he wouldn't have made history with 81 points or a few 50-point barrages. I applaud Smush Parker. Bring him back. |
Phil Drops Dime on Cost Cutting Moves
Phil Jackson confirmed that the reason he was let go was because of cost cutting and they didn't want to pay his oversized salary at the time. Of course it wasn't that simple, but it certainly was a big part of it and confirmed that the front office was NOT doing EVERYTHING possible to win as they'd indicated would be the case. Easy to see how this can be perceived as a lie. Kobe had a similar meltdown in 2012 when the front office was all over the board with Gasol:
Quote: | "If they're going to do something, I wish they would just (expletive) do it. If they're not going to do it, come out and say you're not going to do it."
So here it is: The Lakers' front office is an uncommunicative, rudderless fiasco, and the unrest and paranoia that have been festering for years threaten to derail the team's plans to ride Bryant to his sixth NBA title while they still can. And much of it can be traced to the growing influence of executive vice president Jim Buss, the owner's bon vivant son, who has helped transform a great franchise into a steaming pool of nepotism and nincompoops.
In the months leading up to the lockout, the Lakers got rid of assistant general manager Ronnie Lester and most of his scouts. Rudy Garciduenas, the equipment manager for nearly 30 years, was let go. Alex McKechie, a renowned sports science expert, was told to pack up and was quickly scooped up by the Raptors. International scout Adam Fillippi wound up with the Bobcats.
The list goes on. Longtime associates of former coach Phil Jackson were let go as the Lakers tried to "wash off anything that had touched" the decorated coach, a person with ties to the front office said. Brian Shaw, Bryant's preference to succeed Jackson, was interviewed for the job but came away with the clear impression that any efforts to associate himself with Jackson would "hurt him, not help him," a coaching industry source said.
None of these people, who formed what a longtime NBA executive called one of the best front office staffs in the league, was given the courtesy of knowing whether they would be brought back after the lockout ended. |
Kobe Demands - Make Up Your Mind
The common denominator in Kobes outbursts has been: When the front office sends signals that they are not doing EVERYTHING possible to WIN NOW - then Kobe goes into little Biatch mode and has a whine fest. Hard to argue that he hasn't been correct on both occasions, even though his petulance overtook his reason and he got diarrhea of the mouth instead of locking the front office in a room and unleashing on them in private.
And confirming the fact that Kobe was having a Prima Donna moment is the fact that mere hours after making the trade demand he said the following:
Quote: | after telling Stephen A. Smith that the Lakers have lied to him and aren't interested in making the Lakers champs again any time soon, he just called into KLAC and took back everything saying that wants to stay.
Claiming it's "his" team and that after a long, emotional talk with coach Phil Jackson, that he has changed his mind about the Lakers.
"I don't want to go anywhere, this is my team,'' Bryant told KLAC radio. "I love it here. I called Phil, man, he and I talked, it was an emotional conversation, but he just said, `You know what, Kobe? Let us try to figure this thing out.'
"Phil is a guy I lean on a lot.'' |
Prima Donna Moment _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
Last edited by Aussiesuede on Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Krispy Kreme Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003 Posts: 12252
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | akk7 wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | It was hiring Phil that calmed Kobe down. When they hired Phil, he was more confident that the Lakers were about winning. And they were.
Ironically, Kobe and Phil were still thought to be on very bad terms at the time. But Kobe knew Phil would not tolerate any BS from the FO and Im sure he saw Phil as an ally.. After all, they both had a common goal. Win. Just win. Worked out fine. |
Phil was coaching the team when he demanded the trade. He came back, coached Kobe for 2 seasons and then Kobe demanded the trade.
What calmed Kobe down was the early success of the Lakers in 07 due to the emergence of Andrew Bynum, who has a bad rep now as a slacker, but at that time I remember him as an extremely hard worker and then ultimately Pau Gasol. Phil obviously had something to do with all of this clicking, but it wasn't Phil who calmed him down. |
That's right. Over the last seven years, I've found it fascinating to see people like the OP try to re-write history to make Kobe's actions defensible or even heroic. The reality is that Kobe got the chance to be the centerpiece of the team after the Shaq trade, got frustrated when the re-build took longer than he expected, demanded a trade, and then used his no-trade clause as a veto power over any trades that did not suit his personal tastes. He made a fool of himself, and thus we get the revisionist history.
Recently, I've been sort of amused by Kobe's ongoing efforts to control the discussion of his own legacy, the latest installment being Muse. Kobe is essentially trying to write his own obituary. Anyway, I laughed when Kobe told an interviewer that leaving the Lakers just wasn't his style, or whatever the exact words were. Yeah, right. In 2007, he didn't leave because he wanted to dictate the terms of the trade in his favor. In 2015, he isn't leaving because no one would take his contract, even if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Kobe is entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. But he can't erase the Pluto comment from history just because it's inconvenient fo
r his narrative. |
I do agree with you. I've lost a bit of respect for Kobe in these last few years. As I've said numerous times, he's no better than Shaq was late in his career. Hurt, not as effective, yet still wanted max money, or to be highest paid player in the league. I get it, it's a business. But don't give me the whole, "Winning is the most important thing for Kobe". It's not. _________________ Dominating every day. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | kikanga wrote: | Big difference this time around. Jerry West ain't doing us any favors.
Back then, Jerry hooked his apprentice (mitch) up with Pau.
Nowadays, he has a lesser role in GS and I doubt he'd support any Laker trade for Klay. |
I am assuming that the fact that Jerry West had left the Grizzlies the season before Pau was traded kind of makes these comments incorrect. |
It makes it my conspiracy theory.
That trade was lopsided. Alot of NBA fans who are non-laker fans think so. |
It ended up being wildly successful for both teams, that doesn't happen often. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lakers2015 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2015 Posts: 2315
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Things are actually a lot worse now.
Back then we at least had the great Phil Jackson coaching, a prime Kobe who was the best player in the game, two other good pieces in Odom and Bynum.
Now what do we have?
Another incompetent head coach in Scott. Third in a row and Kobe not even nearing the end, but right at it. Clarkson looks to be a promising young point guard. You have Randle coming off a brutal leg injury and who knows how long it'll take him to get back to where he was prior to getting injured. Maybe will get a top five pick, but things look dire right now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
akk7 Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 3013
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Krispy Kreme wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | akk7 wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | It was hiring Phil that calmed Kobe down. When they hired Phil, he was more confident that the Lakers were about winning. And they were.
Ironically, Kobe and Phil were still thought to be on very bad terms at the time. But Kobe knew Phil would not tolerate any BS from the FO and Im sure he saw Phil as an ally.. After all, they both had a common goal. Win. Just win. Worked out fine. |
Phil was coaching the team when he demanded the trade. He came back, coached Kobe for 2 seasons and then Kobe demanded the trade.
What calmed Kobe down was the early success of the Lakers in 07 due to the emergence of Andrew Bynum, who has a bad rep now as a slacker, but at that time I remember him as an extremely hard worker and then ultimately Pau Gasol. Phil obviously had something to do with all of this clicking, but it wasn't Phil who calmed him down. |
That's right. Over the last seven years, I've found it fascinating to see people like the OP try to re-write history to make Kobe's actions defensible or even heroic. The reality is that Kobe got the chance to be the centerpiece of the team after the Shaq trade, got frustrated when the re-build took longer than he expected, demanded a trade, and then used his no-trade clause as a veto power over any trades that did not suit his personal tastes. He made a fool of himself, and thus we get the revisionist history.
Recently, I've been sort of amused by Kobe's ongoing efforts to control the discussion of his own legacy, the latest installment being Muse. Kobe is essentially trying to write his own obituary. Anyway, I laughed when Kobe told an interviewer that leaving the Lakers just wasn't his style, or whatever the exact words were. Yeah, right. In 2007, he didn't leave because he wanted to dictate the terms of the trade in his favor. In 2015, he isn't leaving because no one would take his contract, even if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Kobe is entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. But he can't erase the Pluto comment from history just because it's inconvenient fo
r his narrative. |
I do agree with you. I've lost a bit of respect for Kobe in these last few years. As I've said numerous times, he's no better than Shaq was late in his career. Hurt, not as effective, yet still wanted max money, or to be highest paid player in the league. I get it, it's a business. But don't give me the whole, "Winning is the most important thing for Kobe". It's not. |
I do think if Dwight had re-signed Kobe would've taken a certain pay cut to add pieces to Dwight and Kobe. That's just my guess. However, when Dwight left, it was clear it was a rebuilding process so the Lakers gave Kobe a nice gift for what he's done for them.
I said this in the Muse thread. Put aside the basketball aspect of it for a second. Sometimes the human aspect of this business should be looked at rather than disregarded. The front office had to see the guy fight as hard as he did to get back, his will, his determination, and wanted to thank him properly for that. People can argue it was wrong and they have valid points, but I'm happy the Lakers did it. A lot of organizations can talk about treating players right, but the Lakers actually showed it.
And on the topic of getting traded it did piss me off during the time Kobe wanted to get traded, but I understood why. The supporting cast was horrible. At that point for me it was a if he leaves so be it, let's get some pieces for him. I 100% understood him and his frustration regarding the Lakers. He's in his prime and his best teammate was an extremely inconsistent Lamar Odom.
I do get annoyed at him for blasting the front office at times. He did it last year for no apparent reason. He actually apologized for it (in a Kobe manner without saying sorry). He basically said his impatience sucks sometimes and can make him short sighted. At least he acknowledges it. Also yes he's a revisionist historian. He has painted this picture that the Hornets willingly traded him when in actuality he wanted to go to LA and forced the Hornets hand.
All in all, you take the good with the bad when it comes to Kobe Bryant and I'll take those pros anytime. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lakers2015 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2015 Posts: 2315
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Krispy Kreme wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | akk7 wrote: | LakersNewEra wrote: | It was hiring Phil that calmed Kobe down. When they hired Phil, he was more confident that the Lakers were about winning. And they were.
Ironically, Kobe and Phil were still thought to be on very bad terms at the time. But Kobe knew Phil would not tolerate any BS from the FO and Im sure he saw Phil as an ally.. After all, they both had a common goal. Win. Just win. Worked out fine. |
Phil was coaching the team when he demanded the trade. He came back, coached Kobe for 2 seasons and then Kobe demanded the trade.
What calmed Kobe down was the early success of the Lakers in 07 due to the emergence of Andrew Bynum, who has a bad rep now as a slacker, but at that time I remember him as an extremely hard worker and then ultimately Pau Gasol. Phil obviously had something to do with all of this clicking, but it wasn't Phil who calmed him down. |
That's right. Over the last seven years, I've found it fascinating to see people like the OP try to re-write history to make Kobe's actions defensible or even heroic. The reality is that Kobe got the chance to be the centerpiece of the team after the Shaq trade, got frustrated when the re-build took longer than he expected, demanded a trade, and then used his no-trade clause as a veto power over any trades that did not suit his personal tastes. He made a fool of himself, and thus we get the revisionist history.
Recently, I've been sort of amused by Kobe's ongoing efforts to control the discussion of his own legacy, the latest installment being Muse. Kobe is essentially trying to write his own obituary. Anyway, I laughed when Kobe told an interviewer that leaving the Lakers just wasn't his style, or whatever the exact words were. Yeah, right. In 2007, he didn't leave because he wanted to dictate the terms of the trade in his favor. In 2015, he isn't leaving because no one would take his contract, even if he hadn't gotten hurt.
Kobe is entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. But he can't erase the Pluto comment from history just because it's inconvenient fo
r his narrative. |
I do agree with you. I've lost a bit of respect for Kobe in these last few years. As I've said numerous times, he's no better than Shaq was late in his career. Hurt, not as effective, yet still wanted max money, or to be highest paid player in the league. I get it, it's a business. But don't give me the whole, "Winning is the most important thing for Kobe". It's not. |
Are you forgetting something? Like the fact that Jim Buss gave him the money on his contract? He didn't demand it. People are always talking about how Tim Duncan and Dirk took less, but the reasons they did was because they had faith in the front office to make the necessary moves to put the best product and a championship one at that. Buss has shown nothing to show that he could do the same.
Why should Kobe take less? He has no reason to when there is no reason to believe in this front office right now. This is the same FO that gave away Lamar Odom for peanuts. Yeah I get he demanded a trade, but he was also the reigning sixth man of the year so don't tell me they couldn't have gotten more than they did for him. They had numerous chances to get something for Pau Gasol and yet they allowed him to walk for nothing. They traded a boat load of picks for a near 40 year old point guard.
Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers2015 wrote: | Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Well, actually, that was precisely the point of what he did in 2007. He just didn't get the trade he wanted.
I don't fault Kobe or any other player who does that. This is a free country. If you aren't happy where you work -- even if you are being paid millions -- you have the right to press for a change. Kobe didn't handle the situation well, creating a media circus that lasted for months. I can forgive that, because star athletes tend to be a bit self-absorbed. But when he tells the media that he isn't the kind of guy who would bail on a rebuilding team (or whatever his exact words were), it makes me shake my head. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23926
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Spill512 wrote: | I'm more upset that we wasted some of his prime years with that garbage around him. They weren't even trying. |
They tried and succeeded. Their refusal to appease Kobe with some hasty moves is the reason they had a 5-6 year run at the top of the league. Kobe couldn't see it at the time but that was perfect for him. He got some years to put up some big numbers while the team shaped around him. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stojan1993 Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Posts: 67
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Lakers2015 wrote: | Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Well, actually, that was precisely the point of what he did in 2007. He just didn't get the trade he wanted.
I don't fault Kobe or any other player who does that. This is a free country. If you aren't happy where you work -- even if you are being paid millions -- you have the right to press for a change. Kobe didn't handle the situation well, creating a media circus that lasted for months. I can forgive that, because star athletes tend to be a bit self-absorbed. But when he tells the media that he isn't the kind of guy who would bail on a rebuilding team (or whatever his exact words were), it makes me shake my head. |
The fact is that he never bailed.
Also, my guess is he isnt the exact same person he was in 2007.
Your comments make me shake my head. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30728
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Remember when Kobe requested to be traded? |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | J.C. Smith wrote: | The front office made the right decisions there. That team was making good progress. They nearly upset the Suns in the first round one year, then started the next season 26-12 before injuries really hurt them and they wound up collapsing down the stretch. But the reality is they then started the next season on fire with basically the exact same team again, the only addition was the Ariza trade early in the year. And then of course they landed Gasol with some of the assets they had been accruing and went to three straight titles.
Kobe just lost patience at that point. He saw Lebron having an easy run through the East and a young Bulls team and concern over his legacy had him wanting to jump ship. But the moves that infuriated him were all moves that would have crippled the Lakers. He was upset about not trading for Jermaine O'Neal or Jason Kidd right before they joined the senior league. If the Lakers did the moves that would have appeased to him in the short term the team would have never won titles, and he would have demanded a trade a year or two later for the same legacy reasons. That was a big deal for him because if he never won another title people would say he never won a title as the primary option or that he never won a title without Shaq.
Mitch was building then the same way he is building now. Slow and steady. Fans got frustrated because there were no big moves being made. He seemed hesitant to pull the trigger. But the moves he passed on, all wound up being the right decision. The only really bad move he made during that period of time was the Kwame trade, which was driven by Phil and which was considered a home run swing. They knew the risk but felt he was worth the gamble. Of course Butler would go on to be an all-star, but Kwame did help them net Gasol. And I see similar things happening now. Two guys fans are angry that the Lakers didn't chase this summer, Thomas and Stephenson have both been problems in the locker room. Nobody wants Stephenson and the Suns traded Thomas even knowing they were trading Dragic. While I certainly wish they would have gotten something for Gasol, (or Hill this year) if teams aren't giving fair offers, I can understand the notion of not giving away an asset for free. It hurts his ability to make favorable deals in the future if teams think they can run over him. |
Just my opinion, but I think that the breaking point for Kobe was DWade winning a title with Shaq. |
I actually think the cakewalk Lebron had to the Finals in 2007 was the proverbial straw. We went out twice against Phoenix and the 2007 series was a big step back from 2006 when they didn't have Amare. It really appeared unless something drastic were to happen, it was more of the same. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stojan1993 wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Lakers2015 wrote: | Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Well, actually, that was precisely the point of what he did in 2007. He just didn't get the trade he wanted.
I don't fault Kobe or any other player who does that. This is a free country. If you aren't happy where you work -- even if you are being paid millions -- you have the right to press for a change. Kobe didn't handle the situation well, creating a media circus that lasted for months. I can forgive that, because star athletes tend to be a bit self-absorbed. But when he tells the media that he isn't the kind of guy who would bail on a rebuilding team (or whatever his exact words were), it makes me shake my head. |
The fact is that he never bailed.
Also, my guess is he isnt the exact same person he was in 2007.
Your comments make me shake my head. |
The fact is that he announced to the world that he would rather play on Pluto than be a Laker. After that, he used his no-trade clause as leverage to force a trade that suited his own interests. My guess is that he is exactly the same person he was in 2007, except older, physically broken down, and with a contract that no other team would touch with the proverbial ten foot pole. Shake your head all you want. It won't change anything. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Remember when Kobe requested to be traded? |
|
|
jonnybravo wrote: | I actually think the cakewalk Lebron had to the Finals in 2007 was the proverbial straw. We went out twice against Phoenix and the 2007 series was a big step back from 2006 when they didn't have Amare. It really appeared unless something drastic were to happen, it was more of the same. |
I think it was simpler than that, and I don't think it had much to do with Lebron. We got humiliated by the Suns in five games. Think what that must have done to someone like Kobe. Losing a heart breaker in seven is one thing, but getting spanked is another. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Remember when Kobe requested to be traded? |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | I actually think the cakewalk Lebron had to the Finals in 2007 was the proverbial straw. We went out twice against Phoenix and the 2007 series was a big step back from 2006 when they didn't have Amare. It really appeared unless something drastic were to happen, it was more of the same. |
I think it was simpler than that, and I don't think it had much to do with Lebron. We got humiliated by the Suns in five games. Think what that must have done to someone like Kobe. Losing a heart breaker in seven is one thing, but getting spanked is another. |
Yeah, people have an odd and selective recollection of that series. Phil blasted Kobe for his shot selection in game 6, and Kobe responded by barely shooting at all in the second half of game 7. Barkely then called his shooting reticence selfish, which if it was pouting it kind of was.
I don't know why this thread was created, btw. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kikanga wrote: | Big difference this time around. Jerry West ain't doing us any favors.
Back then, Jerry hooked his apprentice (mitch) up with Pau.
Nowadays, he has a lesser role in GS and I doubt he'd support any Laker trade for Klay. |
Would you do me a favor and stop repeating this easily debunked untruth? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers2015 wrote: |
Are you forgetting something? Like the fact that Jim Buss gave him the money on his contract? He didn't demand it. People are always talking about how Tim Duncan and Dirk took less, but the reasons they did was because they had faith in the front office to make the necessary moves to put the best product and a championship one at that. Buss has shown nothing to show that he could do the same.
Why should Kobe take less? He has no reason to when there is no reason to believe in this front office right now. This is the same FO that gave away Lamar Odom for peanuts. Yeah I get he demanded a trade, but he was also the reigning sixth man of the year so don't tell me they couldn't have gotten more than they did for him. They had numerous chances to get something for Pau Gasol and yet they allowed him to walk for nothing. They traded a boat load of picks for a near 40 year old point guard.
Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Kobe certainly did get the money he wanted. That FO gave him sevrral options on salary and how they would spend the rest to improve the team. Kobe chose more over less, giving the FO less instead of more. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stojan1993 Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Posts: 67
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | stojan1993 wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Lakers2015 wrote: | Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Well, actually, that was precisely the point of what he did in 2007. He just didn't get the trade he wanted.
I don't fault Kobe or any other player who does that. This is a free country. If you aren't happy where you work -- even if you are being paid millions -- you have the right to press for a change. Kobe didn't handle the situation well, creating a media circus that lasted for months. I can forgive that, because star athletes tend to be a bit self-absorbed. But when he tells the media that he isn't the kind of guy who would bail on a rebuilding team (or whatever his exact words were), it makes me shake my head. |
The fact is that he never bailed.
Also, my guess is he isnt the exact same person he was in 2007.
Your comments make me shake my head. |
The fact is that he announced to the world that he would rather play on Pluto than be a Laker. After that, he used his no-trade clause as leverage to force a trade that suited his own interests. My guess is that he is exactly the same person he was in 2007, except older, physically broken down, and with a contract that no other team would touch with the proverbial ten foot pole. Shake your head all you want. It won't change anything. |
And then he remained a laker, point im making is that when a guy spends his entire 2 decade long career in one team he has a right to say that he doesnt bail on his team or whatever the quote was. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Lakers2015 wrote: | Last time I checked Kobe didn't spurn the Lakers and go ring chasing like Shaq did. No comparison. |
Well, actually, that was precisely the point of what he did in 2007. He just didn't get the trade he wanted.
I don't fault Kobe or any other player who does that. This is a free country. If you aren't happy where you work -- even if you are being paid millions -- you have the right to press for a change. Kobe didn't handle the situation well, creating a media circus that lasted for months. I can forgive that, because star athletes tend to be a bit self-absorbed. But when he tells the media that he isn't the kind of guy who would bail on a rebuilding team (or whatever his exact words were), it makes me shake my head. |
It was just Kobe throwing a fit, I never thought it was a big deal then, I certainly don't now. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|