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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:16 am Post subject: Paid Mods - The Rise of 3rd Party DLC |
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http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/
(bleep). One of the reasons I got into pc gaming is that mods were an easy way to supplement content without having to pay for ridiculously overpriced DLCs.
Modding was cool because the authors did it in their free time and did so primarily because they loved the game and wanted to share their creations. They usually even got paid through donations. Now the Skyrim Steam shop is going to be flooded with "Horse Armor" wannabes selling for 99 cents. Damn.
Gotta stick to nexus mods from now on...steam workshop will be unusable soon enough unless you love microtransactions.
Here's a petition nearing 75,000 that is trying to stop this blatant corporate monetization of a hobby:
https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop
Edit: The petition worked. Paid mods have been removed...for now.
Last edited by Don Draper on Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Damn. I thought there was going to be some money for me... |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Put a "gofundme" link in your sig. $10 gets a month's worth of your good graces. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I feel like us discussing dlc led to this
The coincidence is too real _________________ Kobe |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Me too...I was flabbergasted when I realized this started the day after I badmouth DLC |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still not quite sure what my stance is but the last few hours there's been a lot of outrage over how modders, who decide not to sell their mods and upload it on sites like nexus, find their own content uploaded by other people with a price tag on it. That's just ridiculous.
Or how a bunch of mods are built on other mods, so they include stuff from other mods. Can you sell that?
Not to mention the modders get only 25% of the cut.
This thing is only going to stop if it stops in the next few days. If it lasts longer than that, there is no way Valve will stop doing it. _________________ Kobe |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30728
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm torn on this.
The og Counterstrike and Dota are arguably two of the biggest multiplayer PC games ever and the modders didn't get a cent as far as I'm aware. Dota freaking spawned an entire genre of titles (some of the most lucrative franchises in the industry mind you). |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30728
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | I'm still not quite sure what my stance is but the last few hours there's been a lot of outrage over how modders, who decide not to sell their mods and upload it on sites like nexus, find their own content uploaded by other people with a price tag on it. That's just ridiculous.
Or how a bunch of mods are built on other mods, so they include stuff from other mods. Can you sell that?
Not to mention the modders get only 25% of the cut.
This thing is only going to stop if it stops in the next few days. If it lasts longer than that, there is no way Valve will stop doing it. |
Yeah, this is going to be a problem. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30728
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | Damn. I thought there was going to be some money for me... |
Oh man, DB holding out on you? GT, ChefLinda, Mike, JMK and the rest of the gang are living large off that mod money. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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It sucks that it's getting harder and harder to enjoy the fruit's of another person's labor without having to pay for it. |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | It sucks that it's getting harder and harder to enjoy the fruit's of another person's labor without having to pay for it. |
Lol, if you want to be paid a salary for game design go get hired by a company. Most modders mod for fun, and just release whatever they've made whenever it's done, or for testing. Not to mention they're usually amateurs who only mod for practice or because it's easier to use what pro devs have already laid out for them.
I have a blog that gets a bunch of hits and I'm not paid per word read. It's just a hobby...I don't do it for cash. If somebody throws a donation my way, that's awesome.
All this is is third-party DLC, with the modders being used as slave labor by companies like Valve and Bethesda. Nobody wins in this situation but them.
Not to mention, pirating a paid mod is going to be easy as hell for anybody with an ounce of computer knowledge.
Back to your original comment, I have no qualms if a modder wants to be paid for their work beyond donations. But they better realize that doing so comes with responsibility...it better work and it better not be half-assed, or people will stick your head on a stake (see Steam early access games). And then it's game over. Not to get sentimental but modding was like a form of socialism...everyone contributed in a small way since even people who didn't pay or create mods served as perpetual beta testers. This is just depressing all around if it becomes a trend.
Last edited by Don Draper on Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:38 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | I'm still not quite sure what my stance is but the last few hours there's been a lot of outrage over how modders, who decide not to sell their mods and upload it on sites like nexus, find their own content uploaded by other people with a price tag on it. That's just ridiculous.
Or how a bunch of mods are built on other mods, so they include stuff from other mods. Can you sell that?
Not to mention the modders get only 25% of the cut.
This thing is only going to stop if it stops in the next few days. If it lasts longer than that, there is no way Valve will stop doing it. |
I don't really think I'm against the idea of modders getting money...heck I donated to several projects (like the Halo mod for Sins or the Kotor 2 restoration). It's the idea of modding as a hobby turning into a slave labor-ish money spinner for greedy corporations, which is only going to reduce the quality of these things when all is said and done, that irks me. |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | I'm torn on this.
The og Counterstrike and Dota are arguably two of the biggest multiplayer PC games ever and the modders didn't get a cent as far as I'm aware. Dota freaking spawned an entire genre of titles (some of the most lucrative franchises in the industry mind you). |
This might interest you:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/33nn7v/a_dota_2_modders_opinion_on_paid_workshop_mods/
TBH I'm not sure how it works for those kinds of total conversion esque mods that get turned into separate games. I would think the modders get paid some sort of lump sum when their work is turned over to the original devs?
Either way, every mod piggy-backs on someone else's content already. It's like Team Four Star's DBZ Abridged...they pour HOURS into their work but can't make any money off their videos because Akira Toriyama and co own the copyright to the original work. What they do instead is try and get paid through merchandising. |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19866 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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re
tar
ded
Amateur modding is one of the only good things left in video games. For you console morons, a mod is DLC created by someone who did it for fun. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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So if a modder makes something and gives it away for free, which also helps the game company because of mindshare, then it's cool.
If same modder makes money on it, but game company gets a large portion of it, then it's slave labor. |
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | So if a modder makes something and gives it away for free, which also helps the game company because of mindshare, then it's cool.
If same modder makes money on it, but game company gets a large portion of it, then it's slave labor. |
Association fallacy...
Modding never involved "mindshare". In fact the existence of some mods made certain companies look terrible (Bethesda/Obsidian).
Companies are taking advantage of laborers who are unable to ask for more money due to copyright law, while simultaneously wrecking the one area of PC gaming they were unable to profit from. What does that sound like to you? If not slave labor, it's some pretty underhanded (bleep). I don't blame modders for wanting to be paid, but not like this.
And please, read this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/33nn7v/a_dota_2_modders_opinion_on_paid_workshop_mods/ |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Don Draper wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | So if a modder makes something and gives it away for free, which also helps the game company because of mindshare, then it's cool.
If same modder makes money on it, but game company gets a large portion of it, then it's slave labor. |
Association fallacy...
Modding never involved "mindshare". In fact the existence of some mods made certain companies look terrible (Bethesda/Obsidian).
Companies are taking advantage of laborers who are unable to ask for more money due to copyright law, while simultaneously wrecking the one area of PC gaming they were unable to profit from. What does that sound like to you? If not slave labor, it's some pretty underhanded (bleep). I don't blame modders for wanting to be paid, but not like this.
And please, read this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/33nn7v/a_dota_2_modders_opinion_on_paid_workshop_mods/ |
Not sure what's so underhanded about it.
Creators have an opportunity to make money for something they were doing anyways. |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19866 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Reflexx wrote: | Don Draper wrote: | Reflexx wrote: | So if a modder makes something and gives it away for free, which also helps the game company because of mindshare, then it's cool.
If same modder makes money on it, but game company gets a large portion of it, then it's slave labor. |
Association fallacy...
Modding never involved "mindshare". In fact the existence of some mods made certain companies look terrible (Bethesda/Obsidian).
Companies are taking advantage of laborers who are unable to ask for more money due to copyright law, while simultaneously wrecking the one area of PC gaming they were unable to profit from. What does that sound like to you? If not slave labor, it's some pretty underhanded (bleep). I don't blame modders for wanting to be paid, but not like this.
And please, read this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/33nn7v/a_dota_2_modders_opinion_on_paid_workshop_mods/ |
Not sure what's so underhanded about it.
Creators have an opportunity to make money for something they were doing anyways. |
Modding was never about getting paid. Plenty of great modders have received job offers to become professional devs, and this is how it should be. Open game engines provide an environment for innovation and the freedom to add features to a great (or lacking) game without the restrictive oversight of corporate dicksuckers (EA, ubisoft, Microsoft). DLCs, microtransactions, and now monopolizing user-created content...all of these things discourage creativity and drive content away from fun and progress and towards the mainstream. We've seen the effect this dumbing down has had upon music and movies. We've seen what gaming could be like if all content was panel-approved by the same 3-4 publishers. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19866 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19866 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31935 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Quality company my ass
But great that they stopped. I wonder if they're still gonna get sued _________________ Kobe |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19866 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Quality company my ass |
Quality company indeed. They could've just moved forward with the change, weathered the PR storm and cashed in. They didn't. Quality. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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Don Draper Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28523 Location: LA --> Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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C M B wrote: | Chronicle wrote: | Quality company my ass |
Quality company indeed. They could've just moved forward with the change, weathered the PR storm and cashed in. They didn't. Quality. |
Lord Gaben just had to sleep on it. |
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eureca Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 15832
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I respect that Valve for listening to the consumers. I also respect Valve for being open about why they thought it was a good idea. I would definitely call them a quality company.
I personally didn't really get too worked up about it. Just thought it needed some tweaking. The money distribution is one. 25% to the modder seemed low. Valve was getting 30% I believe. I would have liked to see Valve take a lesser amount while the modder and game dev get more of an even split of what is left. |
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