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cmonkee Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 5301 Location: Redondo Beach
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Bumping this thread in light of all that happened with this the 2015 free-agency offseason.
Duncan's paycut worked - Spurs got Aldridge (and kept Leonard). Dirk's didn't, and it seems extremely unlikely that the Mavs are going to contend anytime for the rest of his career. Wade got paid (but the salary cap's gone up).
Looking forward - KG just signed a two year, $16 million contract with the Timberwolves that will take him into his 21st and 22nd seasons. It apparently also include a clause for a management role if he no longer can play. I can't help but wonder if this establishes a baseline for Kobe's market value should he continue to want to play past this season... |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money.
Dirk on the other hand is phucked. Well, as much as a multi millionaire can be anyway lol _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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dmills wrote: | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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moonriver24 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 15265
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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A healthy Kobe is still worth twice what Minny agreed to pay KG for the last hurrah. I can see him taking 10 to 15m per for a 2 year extension ala KG while not hampering the cap to sign KD in 2016.
Remember the cap will increase to 70m n Kobe taking 10m alone will leave 15m. Add the increase in cap may give a sufficient room for Durant. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25179
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Let say we sign 2 max FA next summer, can we then sign Kobe over the cap? What about Hibbert? Kinda like LeBron |
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32 Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 73121
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kobe will be a surprise this year. With more help and Russ/clarkson/Lou/even Randle to help with running the team he will have less to shoulder. I'm hoping for a great year from him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8960
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Let say we sign 2 max FA next summer, can we then sign Kobe over the cap? What about Hibbert? Kinda like LeBron |
No, what's the point? You think KD will be thrilled to have Kobe on this team next year? I do t care how little $ Kobe cost next season it's time to turn the page before it gets ugly. |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | dmills wrote: | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
Yep. As I said, TD is the exception to the rule due to special circumstances.
Another factor that we fail to consider is that the Lakers as an organization just don't operate that way. They would never go to a star player and tell him as part of their pitch; "if you take less money to play here we can sign multiple stars to the team". As we've with the CP3 fiasco and more recently, the DeAndre Jordan clusterphuck, cold hard reality can supersede even the best of expectations. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless.
Last edited by dmills on Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28423
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dirk took a paycut so Jordan can go to the Clips. lol _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Dirk took a paycut so Jordan can go to the Clips. lol |
Exactly. And although you're probably being facetious that's precisely what ultimately happened. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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Tark the Shark Star Player
Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 3510
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
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NastyNas_87 Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 717
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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32 wrote: | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
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Marty Star Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 3499 Location: DeLorean
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Based on KG's latest contract (15 mil / 2 yrs), Kobe will probably command at least 12mil even if he's not as productive as his pre-Achilles version (2013). If Kobe still feels good on the court, and decides to continue playing, my guess is he would get a KG type of deal, only at 15million/yr. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Tark the Shark wrote: | The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
Uh huh. And what free agents did we miss out on with the loss in cap space? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:47 am Post subject: |
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dmills wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | dmills wrote: | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
Yep. As I said, TD is the exception to the rule due to special circumstances.
Another factor that we fail to consider is that the Lakers as an organization just don't operate that way. They would never go to a star player and tell him as part of their pitch; "if you take less money to play here we can sign multiple stars to the team". As we've with the CP3 fiasco and more recently, the DeAndre Jordan clusterphuck, cold hard reality can supersede even the best of expectations. |
I'm not sure I really understand why it bears pointing out that it is the exception to the rule. What exactly is the rule?
That no player should ever take a pay cut to help his team? Or is the rule that a player who takes a paycut to help the team, often doesn't get the benefits of that paycut, with the exception being Duncan?
And how is the CP3 fiasco and DJ situation also not exceptions to the rule? Those things rarely happen.
In either case, I think it misses the point. The paycut is taken to give the team an opportunity to improve. Of course there's a risk in doing so (i.e. Dirk). And there's also a reward (i.e. Duncan, LBJ/Wade/Bosh).
At the time of Kobe's extension, if he was willing to take a paycut to give the FO a chance to put a better team around him, wouldn't that have been ideal?
I can't think of any realistic scenario, in which it would have been in the best interests of a salary capped team, for a player not to willingly take a paycut even if the act doesn't go unrewarded. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
Uh huh. And what free agents did we miss out on with the loss in cap space? |
We'll never know.
Would it be better for the team, or worse, had they had an extra $10M in cap space right now?
I say better. |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Hector the Pup wrote: | Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
I don't have a problem with Kobe getting paid.
However, one argument that some would say is that we would have had money to offer 2 max free agents instead of one. That may have led to a combo of LA and DJ. But seeing how DJ was a total *****, I guess it was a blessing in disguise.
Imagine if LA and DJ both agreed w/ the Lakers. Then DJ showed off his ***** character and reneged. Then LA being the sole guy, reneged. I can see it happening haha.
Now, if Kobe got over $14M next year, I might have an issue. |
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chubby_1_kenobi Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1450
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Among all the teams in the lottery, the Lakers were the only team that Aldridge and DJ set up meetings with. Think about that...
Players are still eager to don the purple and gold if the teams are slightly more competitive instead of being bottom dweller. It's not outrageous to say that playing with Kobe Bryant (whom garner so much respect from everyone in the league) is a big part of the attraction.
The only ones eager to see Kobe retire is the media and those foolish enough to believe them. Players who are serious about improving their game generally flock to him for guidance and tutelage. _________________ Eighth grade key phrases are crucial tools for this type of subterfuge: "team player", "make teammates better", "ballhog", "selfish", "court vision": all dripping with sanctimony and defamation. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25179
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Hector the Pup wrote: | Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
I don't have a problem with Kobe getting paid.
However, one argument that some would say is that we would have had money to offer 2 max free agents instead of one. That may have led to a combo of LA and DJ. But seeing how DJ was a total *****, I guess it was a blessing in disguise.
Imagine if LA and DJ both agreed w/ the Lakers. Then DJ showed off his ***** character and reneged. Then LA being the sole guy, reneged. I can see it happening haha.
Now, if Kobe got over $14M next year, I might have an issue. |
But can't we do it Ala cleveland? Sign everybody else then sign Kobe over the cap after? |
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Vancouver Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 17740
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | dmills wrote: | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. | _________________ Music is my medicine |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144551 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | dmills wrote: | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
If only we were able to see Kobe playing with those lotto players. Hopefully his last season will give us some sweet things to remember. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144551 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:50 am Post subject: |
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NastyNas_87 wrote: | 32 wrote: | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
Delusion is alive and well. The Kobe we have seen in this contract isn't worth $10 mil. Hopefully that will change this season. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | NastyNas_87 wrote: | 32 wrote: | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
Delusion is alive and well. The Kobe we have seen in this contract isn't worth $10 mil. Hopefully that will change this season. |
This place is incredible, isn't it? Haha.
He'll be in a free market after this season so let's see if anyone pays him $100M to do anything at all. #wonthappen |
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