|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Simmons or ingram. It doesn't matter. Just get in the top 2 and we're good. |
I agree. At the end of the day I just want the Lakers to keep the pick as long as it is top 2.
If #1 I want Simmons. If #2, and by default the Lakers get Ingram I am fine with it. |
I still don't believe either is a generational player tbh. But I do think d'angelo, ingram/simmons, and Randle are great building blocks. All have the potential to be something special. |
I think Simmons has a better shot at being a game changer for our team than Ingram. In this era of small ball and versatility, Simmons brings it.
If Blake Griffin could add a 15 foot jumper through practicing, I don't see why Simmons can't. |
Not going to refute that since you're pretty convinced. I do picture a deadly fast break with dlo pushing the break and simmons flying down the wing.
_________________
Music is my medicine |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yup. I'm definitely not worried about guys with upside that need work on their jumpshots.
I just don't want to wait 5 years for it to happen.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iceberg01
Star Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 2324
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd be good with Ingram. But not necessarily OVER Simmons. If we get Ingram, assuming we don't sign any big free agents, we'd continue to be one of the worst teams in the league, as Ingram is still an "upside" guy, and will probably take a season, half-season, or a number of seasons to physically mature.
On the other hand, Simmons gives us a lot of intangible benefits: One, we'd instantly be back on TV more often, with more nationally featured games: the NBA would be anxious to market "the Lakers vs. Warriors, and all of the other young, exciting teams", etc.
Second, Simmons is unquestionably more ready to play in the NBA than Ingram. There's no question in my mind that he can come in, start, and be a 15, 10, 5 assist, and 1.5 steal guy. Maybe even 17-19ppg , 10 & 5 & 2 steals a game. He'd have a HUGE immediate impact on the floor.
Third, I honestly believe that almost every player in the NBA now is a shooter or scorer, or wannabe shooter or scorer. Simmons and Russell together could be the makings of a really good passing, unselfish team. And when it's in LA, the team sells itself, as far as becoming a destination for free agents.
As far as the season, it's not the NBA, so I can't knock him for not improving. A student-athlete's non- basketball time is supposed to be dedicated to school, not improving your jumper. And as far as stats declining, there's all kinds of variables, like doubling, improved game-planning, etc. I suspect that if Lebron played college basketball, he'd experience much the same kind of defense and criticism (he's been criticized roundly for passing the ball off in clutch situations too). So it doesn't bother me as much. Especially when you weigh that against the potential positives.
Speaking of Lebron, he has Lebron's boy as his agent, and is kind of a protege of Lebron. And for all the criticism he gets, Lebron actually seems like a likeable, good guy, and can provide some guidance & mentorship to the kid. Bottom line, I think Simmons is a potential homerun for the Lakers, just staring us in the face (IF we get the #1 or 2 pick). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Simmons and DLO were magical in high school ball...though the obvious caveat is it was high school ball.
I'd love to have the problem of having Simmons or Ingram.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17065
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Trade the top 3 (if we keep it) for Myles Turner 
Get at me Jim!   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bonkers
Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Posts: 6071
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not Lakers-related of course, but who do you think the Wolves will draft assuming their pick is in the 5-7 range? I could see them taking Hield and moving LaVine to a 6th man role
Rubio
Hield
Wiggins
Dieng
Towns
LaVine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gimme_the_rock
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11882
Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: |
I'd love to have the problem of having Simmons or Ingram. |
And with a chance of losing the pick, I abso-freaking-lutely agree.
_________________
We back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomoreshaq
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 5152
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
if someone we lucked into simmons and got durant what do we do with the ret of our cap?
simmons
randle
durant
jc
dlo
nance, black |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bonkers wrote: | Not Lakers-related of course, but who do you think the Wolves will draft assuming their pick is in the 5-7 range? I could see them taking Hield and moving LaVine to a 6th man role
Rubio
Hield
Wiggins
Dieng
Towns
LaVine |
What if they get #1?
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nomoreshaq wrote: | if someone we lucked into simmons and got durant what do we do with the ret of our cap?
simmons
randle
durant
jc
dlo
nance, black |
Trade Simmons and JC for a role playing vet, go after a good defending center. Hire Bud.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shortodom
Star Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 5332
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | if someone we lucked into simmons and got durant what do we do with the ret of our cap?
simmons
randle
durant
jc
dlo
nance, black |
Trade Simmons and JC for a role playing vet, go after a good defending center. Hire Bud. |
Agree, we won't keep Simmons if we get Durant. We'd need to speed up our growth so we'd have a good chance of a championship in Durants career. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chad09
Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 6738
Location: Studio City
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Trad Ben for a role playing vet?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shortodom wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | if someone we lucked into simmons and got durant what do we do with the ret of our cap?
simmons
randle
durant
jc
dlo
nance, black |
Trade Simmons and JC for a role playing vet, go after a good defending center. Hire Bud. |
Agree, we won't keep Simmons if we get Durant. We'd need to speed up our growth so we'd have a good chance of a championship in Durants career. |
Simmons is an impact player day 1 IMO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iceberg01
Star Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 2324
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know what you're saying. But he's also a kid. Maybe, just maybe, he was having fun with other college kids and teammates in his spare time, which doesn't mean he's a jack-ass. We were all 19 once. As Laker fans, we expect our pro athletes, before they become pros, to spend their spare time shooting 1000 jumpers a day??? lol.... That's pretty unrealistic.
And, ineligible doesn't mean that the guy totally didn't attend classes, or didn't take exams. Just means he didn't study as well or as much as other kids.
All I'm saying is, it's not like Simmons got in trouble for rape. Or gang crap. Or theft. Or any kind of criminal activity. Or chemistry problems with his teammates, even! What people are "mad" at him for is that he came in dominating. And didn't dominate ... MORE??? C'mon, man. IMO, that's a sign that you're pretty g-damn good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shotclock24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 138
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | bonkers wrote: | Not Lakers-related of course, but who do you think the Wolves will draft assuming their pick is in the 5-7 range? I could see them taking Hield and moving LaVine to a 6th man role
Rubio
Hield
Wiggins
Dieng
Towns
LaVine |
What if they get #1? |
Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, Simmons, Towns   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
a2j1m
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 3734
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MitchThaGod wrote: | | SemperMalum wrote: | So, odd point to make: I know we're all discussing who we want to pick up at 32...
What are the odds we get somebody completely different? Who's the random dark horse candidate that we should have on our possible radars? (See Also: Anthony Brown, Larry Nance Jr.) |
Melo Trimble |
Na dude won't be anything special. I'd much rather go Tyler Ulis if he's there. I do see us getting a PG tho unless we bring Huertas back which I do hope so. I wanna go BPA at 3 and a big at 32. I like the idea of Ibeh |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | shortodom wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | nomoreshaq wrote: | if someone we lucked into simmons and got durant what do we do with the ret of our cap?
simmons
randle
durant
jc
dlo
nance, black |
Trade Simmons and JC for a role playing vet, go after a good defending center. Hire Bud. |
Agree, we won't keep Simmons if we get Durant. We'd need to speed up our growth so we'd have a good chance of a championship in Durants career. |
Simmons is an impact player day 1 IMO. |
I doubt that Durant is a fan of waiting around to find out.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karmaloop
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2387
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I mean, should we penalize a player because of an inane rule that the NBA has set? I mean, does anyone really think that Ben Simmons needed a year in college? To me, both those answers are no. I could honestly care less if he was a 4.0 or a 1.0 in college, his future was and is always is in the NBA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karmaloop
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2387
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SemperMalum wrote: | So, odd point to make: I know we're all discussing who we want to pick up at 32...
What are the odds we get somebody completely different? Who's the random dark horse candidate that we should have on our possible radars? (See Also: Anthony Brown, Larry Nance Jr.) |
I wouldn't really say that Anthony Brown was a dark horse pick, I think most had him in that 25-40 range. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Karmaloop wrote: |
I mean, should we penalize a player because of an inane rule that the NBA has set? I mean, does anyone really think that Ben Simmons needed a year in college? To me, both those answers are no. I could honestly care less if he was a 4.0 or a 1.0 in college, his future was and is always is in the NBA. |
To me it's not about that.
He has an opportunity to be a scholarship athlete, learn from LSU, and develop as a basketball player.
He didn't seize that opportunity. He didn't keep the grades up. He added strength, but we saw limited skills progression from him throughout the season.
Ingram? Dunn? Brown? We don't hear about them hurting academically. We know they developed throughout the NCAA season. Ingram and Brown are kids too.
So, why should Simmons be an exception? Jaylen Brown could have declared last year too.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| iceberg01 wrote: |
I know what you're saying. But he's also a kid. Maybe, just maybe, he was having fun with other college kids and teammates in his spare time, which doesn't mean he's a jack-ass. We were all 19 once. As Laker fans, we expect our pro athletes, before they become pros, to spend their spare time shooting 1000 jumpers a day??? lol.... That's pretty unrealistic.
And, ineligible doesn't mean that the guy totally didn't attend classes, or didn't take exams. Just means he didn't study as well or as much as other kids.
All I'm saying is, it's not like Simmons got in trouble for assault. Or gang crap. Or theft. Or any kind of criminal activity. Or chemistry problems with his teammates, even! What people are "mad" at him for is that he came in dominating. And didn't dominate ... MORE??? C'mon, man. IMO, that's a sign that you're pretty g-damn good. |
So, you want to chalk it up to immaturity?
Doesn't that reflect upon the fact that he isn't taking it seriously?
Isn't that a flag?
You want to excuse him for being a good citizen, yet, "being a kid" and not being mature enough to seize the opportunities he had?
It's not a sign that you're pretty good. One injury and you're done. I think it looks really irresponsible.
Other players before him were "pretty damn good" too. It's not like Durant and Carmelo, both of whom were pretty damn good and guaranteed lottery picks out of HS threw away their opportunities academically as well.
Michael Beasley needed a disciplinarian to look like an absolute stud at Kansas St. He was every bit as dominant as Ben Simmons. Once he lost that discipline, he squandered away an All-Star career.
That's NOT the kind of pick I want. Imagine having all that talent and squandering it. There are always guys with elite level talent. Not all of them fulfill that talent.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Karmaloop
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2387
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | To me it's not about that.
He has an opportunity to be a scholarship athlete, learn from LSU, and develop as a basketball player.
He didn't seize that opportunity. He didn't keep the grades up. He added strength, but we saw limited skills progression from him throughout the season.
Ingram? Dunn? Brown? We don't hear about them hurting academically. We know they developed throughout the NCAA season. Ingram and Brown are kids too.
So, why should Simmons be an exception? Jaylen Brown could have declared last year too. |
Again, I could care less if he spent a minute or 1 million minutes on classwork. The only thing I really care about is how much time he spent working on his game. Is this a situation like Cardale Jones where he spent more time on his XBox or is this Buddy Hield where he lives in the gym. He was an NBA-ready prospect coming into LSU, and you're going to penalize him because he didn't have as much room to grow as Ingram did? That's a ridiculous standard to hold. Simmons had an NBA-ready body at 6'9", 225. Ingram wasn't at 6'8", 180. Simmons had over 40 pounds on Ingram, of course there's a reason why Ingram put on 20+ pounds onto his frame. His frame needed that weight, Simmons did. If you're going to penalize a player for not making massive improvements, you need to look at where a player started.
There was absolutely ZERO reason for Simmons to play in college last year, Ingram needed it.
EDIT: I'd actually compare those two to Jahlil Okafor and D'Angelo Russell from last year. Okafor didn't need a year at Duke, Russell needed a year at Ohio State. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Karmaloop wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | To me it's not about that.
He has an opportunity to be a scholarship athlete, learn from LSU, and develop as a basketball player.
He didn't seize that opportunity. He didn't keep the grades up. He added strength, but we saw limited skills progression from him throughout the season.
Ingram? Dunn? Brown? We don't hear about them hurting academically. We know they developed throughout the NCAA season. Ingram and Brown are kids too.
So, why should Simmons be an exception? Jaylen Brown could have declared last year too. |
Again, I could care less if he spent a minute or 1 million minutes on classwork. The only thing I really care about is how much time he spent working on his game. Is this a situation like Cardale Jones where he spent more time on his XBox or is this Buddy Hield where he lives in the gym. He was an NBA-ready prospect coming into LSU, and you're going to penalize him because he didn't have as much room to grow as Ingram did? That's a ridiculous standard to hold. Simmons had an NBA-ready body at 6'9", 225. Ingram wasn't at 6'8", 180. Simmons had over 40 pounds on Ingram, of course there's a reason why Ingram put on 20+ pounds onto his frame. His frame needed that weight, Simmons did. If you're going to penalize a player for not making massive improvements, you need to look at where a player started.
There was absolutely ZERO reason for Simmons to play in college last year, Ingram needed it. |
It's not about the classroom specifically. There are two running arguments here.
1. He was so dominant that he didn't need to work on his game.
2. He was so dominant that the classroom didn't matter.
Basically, he's a "perfect player" and was guaranteed that "he would never be injured."
I've seen elite talents squander away their talent because they were irresponsible, not serious about their career. How's Eddy Curry? Michael Beasley? Anthony Bennett? Joe Alexander?
Iceberg. Yes. You want him to be more dominant. The fact that they lost so many games and didn't make the tournament isn't just a reflection of teammates and coaches. As the #1 recruit, it's on him too. If he can't handle that responsibility, then he definitely can't handle being a franchise player next level.
Like I said. Workouts and interviews, but he better have some really impressive interviews or show some crazy improvement in one summer to earn back #1. Even then, how will franchises trust that he will keep up the work ethic?
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | EDIT: I'd actually compare those two to Jahlil Okafor and D'Angelo Russell from last year. Okafor didn't need a year at Duke, Russell needed a year at Ohio State. |
Which is fine. It's also fine that Okafor didn't exactly have academic issues, but also didn't complete his 2nd workout with the Lakers.
Yes, Duke had a hell of a recruitment that season with Winslow and Jones, but those 3 freshman won a championship. It says a lot about the growth of the team within.
Can't say that about Simmons either. Didn't need to win the championship. Didn't even get into the tourney.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
