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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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s_habe wrote: | This 'small ball' is so overrated....
You only play it if you don't have C to put in. And if the opponent has one, you pay the price.
I would have liked to see someone counter Shaq, backed up with Elden, with small ball. I so hope that the lineup of Mozgov, Zubac and Black is enough to go with good inside-out game around a productive C.
The Lakers way. |
Idk...this team is turning out to be very versitile at every position. If small ball isn't working one night we can switch it up a number of different ways with black, zubac, mosgov and now Yi. I think Yi was a huge signing for us because now we can go twin towers of we want with Yi and mosgov or Yi and zubac.
Yi also gives us a consistent peremeter shooting bigman and that can really open things up for someone like Randle or Clarkson to get to the basket. |
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Shaber Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3732 Location: The other side
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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PICKnPOP wrote: | and now Yi. |
It is not a done deal yet, is it? _________________ .
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:02 am Post subject: |
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s_habe wrote: | PICKnPOP wrote: | and now Yi. |
It is not a done deal yet, is it? |
I'm not 100% sure but everyone seems to be talking like it is so I'm going with it lol |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:03 am Post subject: |
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s_habe wrote: | This 'small ball' is so overrated....
You only play it if you don't have C to put in. And if the opponent has one, you pay the price.
I would have liked to see someone counter Shaq, backed up with Elden, with small ball. I so hope that the lineup of Mozgov, Zubac and Black is enough to go with good inside-out game around a productive C.
The Lakers way. |
Living in the past. |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Hector the Pup wrote: | s_habe wrote: | This 'small ball' is so overrated....
You only play it if you don't have C to put in. And if the opponent has one, you pay the price.
I would have liked to see someone counter Shaq, backed up with Elden, with small ball. I so hope that the lineup of Mozgov, Zubac and Black is enough to go with good inside-out game around a productive C.
The Lakers way. |
Living in the past. |
Bringing up Shaq like there's been many Shaqs in the league. Yes Shaq would dominate, no he's not playing right now. |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand the fascination with Randle at the 5. The Warriors are able to get away with Draymond at center because he's an incredible defender with an enormous wingspan.
Randle is a terrible defender with T-Rex arms. Aside from awkwardly taking a center off the dribble into a hectic shot, what benefits does he bring at center? |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39577
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | I don't understand the fascination with Randle at the 5. The Warriors are able to get away with Draymond at center because he's an incredible defender with an enormous wingspan.
Randle is a terrible defender with T-Rex arms. Aside from awkwardly taking a center off the dribble into a hectic shot, what benefits does he bring at center? |
Its the new thing. Play smaller guys at center because "the league is shifting" |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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And they have similar wingspans |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | And they have similar wingspans |
I guess relative to their height. I should've specified. Draymond still has the quickness and bulk in a 6'7 frame with longer arms than Randle to boot. Draymond is a freak of nature when you examine his build. Not in terms of athleticism but the way his body is. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39577
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | And they have similar wingspans |
I guess relative to their height. I should've specified. Draymond still has the quickness and bulk in a 6'7 frame with longer arms than Randle to boot. Draymond is a freak of nature when you examine his build. Not in terms of athleticism but the way his body is. |
Draymond is actually smaller than Randle but he makes up for it with pure tenacity. He tries to make the right play on offense and annoys the hell out of opposing players on defense. You see Draymond stand next to other power forwards and centers and he looks small. I disagree that green is a freak of nature physically. I think he's just better than other guys and plays smarter and harder. |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12677
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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To note, Green has a 1.25 inch wingspan advantage over Julius but a half inch disadvantage on standing reach, a two inch height disadvantage, a 1 inch deficiency on no step vertical jump, and a 2.5 inch deficiency on his max vertical. He also came into the league 14 lbs lighter. They both have quick hands and feet. If Green can be an effective center, then I believe so can Randle, provided he works on his help defense.
He's shown that he can switch off onto smaller guys and keep them in front of him, what he hasn't shown to date is the ability to make good defensive rotations and protect the rim. It should of course be noted that Green didn't break out until his third season, at age 24. Randle won't turn 22 for another three and a half months. He has time to put it all together. Offensively I think he'd be a match up nightmare for opposing centers if he can knock down his jumper with a moderate success rate. So there is some potential there. There is also potential with cross-matching Randle at center with Nance at power forward because Randle has the strength to hold off centers down low, while Nance has the ability (though he didn't show it much last season) to be a weak side shot blocker. Both of those guys have the ability to switch and defend guards. |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | I don't understand the fascination with Randle at the 5. The Warriors are able to get away with Draymond at center because he's an incredible defender with an enormous wingspan.
Randle is a terrible defender with T-Rex arms. Aside from awkwardly taking a center off the dribble into a hectic shot, what benefits does he bring at center? |
Perhaps you should ask Luke. One of the first things he said about Randle when the news broke that he would be the new coach was that he envisions Randle playing the 5 in a small lineup:
"Honestly, Julius can give us the freedom to do a lot of things because of his size and quickness. If he can develop other aspects of his game, that allows us to go small with him at center because he's strong enough to cover centers.
"That kid averaged 10 rebounds a game as pretty much a rookie? That's insane. This is a grown-man league. For someone in their first year playing to do that is obviously a big advantage to have."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-luke-walton-lakers-20160501-story.html _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40205 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | And they have similar wingspans |
I guess relative to their height. I should've specified. Draymond still has the quickness and bulk in a 6'7 frame with longer arms than Randle to boot. Draymond is a freak of nature when you examine his build. Not in terms of athleticism but the way his body is. |
Draymond is actually smaller than Randle but he makes up for it with pure tenacity. He tries to make the right play on offense and annoys the hell out of opposing players on defense. You see Draymond stand next to other power forwards and centers and he looks small. I disagree that green is a freak of nature physically. I think he's just better than other guys and plays smarter and harder. |
Yeah, the difference is not physical at all on that end of the floor. It's what's between the ears. Randle needs more experience and coaching to understand the game and mentality on the D end. |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | And they have similar wingspans |
I guess relative to their height. I should've specified. Draymond still has the quickness and bulk in a 6'7 frame with longer arms than Randle to boot. Draymond is a freak of nature when you examine his build. Not in terms of athleticism but the way his body is. |
Draymond is actually smaller than Randle but he makes up for it with pure tenacity. He tries to make the right play on offense and annoys the hell out of opposing players on defense. You see Draymond stand next to other power forwards and centers and he looks small. I disagree that green is a freak of nature physically. I think he's just better than other guys and plays smarter and harder. |
He's small in terms of height but it's widely known that wingspan is more important than height. That's why Z-Bo has made a killing in the post despite being undersized height-wise (he makes up for it for having some of the longest arms in the NBA.)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-freakish-advantage-of-nba-all-stars-1455224954
This article covers good ground on the correlation between All Stars and long wingspans relative to their positions. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54628
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Lakers' Larry Nance Jr. uses Crohn's treatment to educate and inspire
Quote: | Overall, Nance speaks with roughly 60 people of various ages (ranging from 7 to 50) and backgrounds (patients came from areas as far north as Calabasas and as far south as Orange County) during a two-hour period.
His prevailing message -- to not let Crohn's disease dictate your life or prevent you from pursuing your dreams -- is meant to inspire. |
http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/43277/los-angeles-lakers-larry-nance-jr-uses-crohns-treatment-to-educate-and-inspire |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17880
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | defense wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | And they have similar wingspans |
I guess relative to their height. I should've specified. Draymond still has the quickness and bulk in a 6'7 frame with longer arms than Randle to boot. Draymond is a freak of nature when you examine his build. Not in terms of athleticism but the way his body is. |
Draymond is actually smaller than Randle but he makes up for it with pure tenacity. He tries to make the right play on offense and annoys the hell out of opposing players on defense. You see Draymond stand next to other power forwards and centers and he looks small. I disagree that green is a freak of nature physically. I think he's just better than other guys and plays smarter and harder. |
He's small in terms of height but it's widely known that wingspan is more important than height. That's why Z-Bo has made a killing in the post despite being undersized height-wise (he makes up for it for having some of the longest arms in the NBA.)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-freakish-advantage-of-nba-all-stars-1455224954
This article covers good ground on the correlation between All Stars and long wingspans relative to their positions. |
Your article is paywalled for me. But even so, just use common sense. Wingspan is more important than height because you don't block the ball with your head. But really, wingspan here is being used as a proxy for standing reach. How high up does your arm get? That's what matters for rim protection, and that's what standing reach is.
Wingspan as opposed to standing reach is valuable in other ways. For example reaching sideways to get deflection, as well as getting blocks when your arms aren't vertical (if you make a few illustrations, you'll see how longer wingspan + shorter overall height means you reach out further at, say, 45 degrees than someone who's taller but has a shorter wingspan).
But in terms of rim protection, when you should be guarding vertically... it doesn't make a difference. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Nice Nance interview here with Bres: [LINK] |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Still excited to see LNJ & JR play on the floor at the same time. How do you find player measurables? I'd be curious if Nance's wingspan is longer than Randle's. Maybe JR seems like the defacto small ball C because of this strength but who is posting up these days?
Seems like Nance is just as suited to play the 5 (Guard opposing 5's) as Randle. It's situational for sure - but not many teams have 2 other PF/C combos that can run with Randle/Nance.
Between watching Hardknocks, seeing the Dodgers playing well, and Lakers on the upswing - I am . Excited |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Another thing we need to think about when considering Randle at the 5 is his base. He's so strong that it really negates any size advantage he would be giving up against an opposing bigman. Who cares how tall you are if you can't get the basketball in the spots that you like? When it comes to things like boxing out and fighting for position in the post, it seems to me like the guy who gets lower has the advantage. Besides, we only go small when it's too our advantage, that's why we have 3 7 footers in the roster.
i also like Randles potential as a PnR defender from the C position. He can potentially be a nightmare for opposing teams. He's so strong and quick I think it surprises peremeter players.
I also think we can get away with having Randle at the 5 because of Ingram and nances length. They really eat up space and we saw what they can do as shot blockers in summer league.
randle
Nance
Ingram
Clarkson
Russell
Is the lineup I'm most interested in watching this season. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Kava wrote: | Still excited to see LNJ & JR play on the floor at the same time. How do you find player measurables? I'd be curious if Nance's wingspan is longer than Randle's. Maybe JR seems like the defacto small ball C because of this strength but who is posting up these days?
Seems like Nance is just as suited to play the 5 (Guard opposing 5's) as Randle. It's situational for sure - but not many teams have 2 other PF/C combos that can run with Randle/Nance.
Between watching Hardknocks, seeing the Dodgers playing well, and Lakers on the upswing - I am . Excited |
Draftexpress is the best place for measurements. Nance has a 1.5" longer wingspan and a 2.5" higher standing reach. But his disadvantage is in strength. A small ball center, when matched up against a more traditional one, needs to be able to credibly defend him, and having the strength to muscle with them is a desired characteristic. Draymond has it, Thompson has it, and so does randle. Both guys can play small five in different contexts, but randle has more potential to play it against size. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Kava wrote: | Still excited to see LNJ & JR play on the floor at the same time. How do you find player measurables? I'd be curious if Nance's wingspan is longer than Randle's. Maybe JR seems like the defacto small ball C because of this strength but who is posting up these days?
Seems like Nance is just as suited to play the 5 (Guard opposing 5's) as Randle. It's situational for sure - but not many teams have 2 other PF/C combos that can run with Randle/Nance.
Between watching Hardknocks, seeing the Dodgers playing well, and Lakers on the upswing - I am . Excited |
I believe his wingspan is 7'1.5 |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Isn't Randle's strength assumed though? Who's to say that Nance can't bench or squat the same amount as Randle |
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Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:37 am Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | I don't understand the fascination with Randle at the 5. The Warriors are able to get away with Draymond at center because he's an incredible defender with an enormous wingspan.
Randle is a terrible defender with T-Rex arms. Aside from awkwardly taking a center off the dribble into a hectic shot, what benefits does he bring at center? |
Its the new thing. Play smaller guys at center because "the league is shifting" |
You aren't addressing his point though, and it is a fair point. Randle actually has short arms, compared to Draymond, who has long arms. They can get away with playing him at center because of his wingspan and because he is tough on D. Randle will never have Draymonds assets, so it might not work. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39577
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wino wrote: | defense wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: | I don't understand the fascination with Randle at the 5. The Warriors are able to get away with Draymond at center because he's an incredible defender with an enormous wingspan.
Randle is a terrible defender with T-Rex arms. Aside from awkwardly taking a center off the dribble into a hectic shot, what benefits does he bring at center? |
Its the new thing. Play smaller guys at center because "the league is shifting" |
You aren't addressing his point though, and it is a fair point. Randle actually has short arms, compared to Draymond, who has long arms. They can get away with playing him at center because of his wingspan and because he is tough on D. Randle will never have Draymonds assets, so it might not work. |
Yea I was just kidding around. As far as the point I already stated that I don't think its anything physical that makes Draymond what he is. I think its confidence, skill, intelligence and determination. Randle has better physical gifts if you ask me. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54628
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Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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It's going to be really interesting and exciting to see how these two play on the court together. |
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