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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Jim99187 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Yong wrote: | I don't know why Luke didnt make use of the GSW connection to sign Barnes. Why did he propose us signing D*ng.... |
Maybe Luke used his GSW connection to advise the Lakers not to pursue Barnes. |
you understand Luke is not going to be right, 100% of the time right? |
I understand he knows more than most posters here, right? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17687
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | MJST wrote: | No, but maxing Barnes wouldn't be the smartest of moves, particularly when you're investing in Ingram for the forseeable future. That's why we got a veteran that can help with Ingram's development and act as a placeholder for the starting 3 spot till Ingram takes it from him and is ready.
Barnes wouldn't have helped in any of those aspects. Again, the Lakers are playing the long game. They're building their core of young talent and surrounding them with veterans till they come into their own and we're a playoff team, and then when we're a playoff team THEN the Lakers will pursue a big time free agent as the piece to 'put them over the top'. That is essentially the Lakers plan right now and I don't see them straying from it. Nor should they.
Making decisions like maxing someone cause they're 'there' and 'young' simply as the main reasons without any structure is what puts a team high on the payroll but stuck precisely where they are and unable to make any other moves to get better. We've seen this with many teams that are stuck in 'limbo' or 'slightly not good enough'. The Lakers aren't aiming for that. |
If the plan is for Ingram to take over that position then guess who is more tradable at that point? A versatile young forward who will be entering his prime or a 33/34 broken down forward?
Also I don't buy the vet leadership and player development angle. You have MWP for those 2 and burnt a roster spot for it. If you want 2 mentors and keep him in bubble wrap, u go with prince at min instead of Deng at 18/4 |
This assumes Barnes wanted to come here. Even Bazemore turned us down and he wasn't even on a championship team. |
point is we did not even try. he would have most definitely shown interest |
Yeah, we hired the guy who had coached him for a good part of the season and didn't pursue him. Let that sink in for a minute. |
Something *similar* could be said for Deng and Thibbs. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Yong wrote: | I don't know why Luke didnt make use of the GSW connection to sign Barnes. Why did he propose us signing D*ng.... |
Maybe Luke used his GSW connection to advise the Lakers not to pursue Barnes. |
you understand Luke is not going to be right, 100% of the time right? |
I understand he knows more than most posters here, right? |
I doubt that cause we have posters like you here, vlf |
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Wildchild027 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 3846 Location: A-T-L-A-N-T-A
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Of course . The different is one guy had a better playoff than the guy who got more money. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wildchild027 wrote: | Of course . The different is one guy had a better playoff than the guy who got more money. |
But everyone wants their revisionist pie. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26420
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | MJST wrote: | No, but maxing Barnes wouldn't be the smartest of moves, particularly when you're investing in Ingram for the forseeable future. That's why we got a veteran that can help with Ingram's development and act as a placeholder for the starting 3 spot till Ingram takes it from him and is ready.
Barnes wouldn't have helped in any of those aspects. Again, the Lakers are playing the long game. They're building their core of young talent and surrounding them with veterans till they come into their own and we're a playoff team, and then when we're a playoff team THEN the Lakers will pursue a big time free agent as the piece to 'put them over the top'. That is essentially the Lakers plan right now and I don't see them straying from it. Nor should they.
Making decisions like maxing someone cause they're 'there' and 'young' simply as the main reasons without any structure is what puts a team high on the payroll but stuck precisely where they are and unable to make any other moves to get better. We've seen this with many teams that are stuck in 'limbo' or 'slightly not good enough'. The Lakers aren't aiming for that. |
If the plan is for Ingram to take over that position then guess who is more tradable at that point? A versatile young forward who will be entering his prime or a 33/34 broken down forward?
Also I don't buy the vet leadership and player development angle. You have MWP for those 2 and burnt a roster spot for it. If you want 2 mentors and keep him in bubble wrap, u go with prince at min instead of Deng at 18/4 |
This assumes Barnes wanted to come here. Even Bazemore turned us down and he wasn't even on a championship team. |
point is we did not even try. he would have most definitely shown interest |
Yeah, we hired the guy who had coached him for a good part of the season and didn't pursue him. Let that sink in for a minute. |
Something *similar* could be said for Deng and Thibbs. |
No there couldn't be.
There's a difference between not pursuing at all, and pursuing on a 2 year deal and being outmatched by another team willing to pay more.
Thibs pursued Deng for a 2 year deal, the Lakers outdid that with a 4 year deal and Deng chose us. Thibs now is still clamoring for Deng that he sees young talent that needs veteran direction. But Ingram's getting it instead and advanced defensively beyond any 19 year old we've seen in a very long time.
Yes the Lakers overpaid to get him, but the receipt and effect it's had on Ingram and will continue to have on Ingram as his game grows along with himself will be extremely beneficial long after Deng has retired.
Marinate on that Ingram whom is a just turned 19 year old rookie, just made the nights of Jimmy Butler and Demar Derozan a living heck when he defended them and held them far below their averages in field goal percentage.
That is a great sign, and a great benefit and a benefit I am very happy Ingram is getting instead of Wiggins. |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17687
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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The coach who coached Deng for most of his career didn't offer anything close to what we offered him. That's similar enough for me. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26420
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | The coach who coached Deng for most of his career didn't offer anything close to what we offered him. That's similar enough for me. |
That's because we offered more to obtain him.
We didn't offer Harrison a darn thing for the Mavs to outmatch. We offered him 0.
Thibs offered Deng a deal, we offered him a better one. We got Deng, he didn't, and he still wants him.
Mavs offered Harrison Barnes a deal, the Lakers didn't.
T'Wolves offered Deng a deal, the Lakers offered Deng a better one.
That's not similar at all.
Thibs wanted Deng, was foiled by us, and still wants Deng. The Lakers didn't want Harrison Barnes. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | MJST wrote: | No, but maxing Barnes wouldn't be the smartest of moves, particularly when you're investing in Ingram for the forseeable future. That's why we got a veteran that can help with Ingram's development and act as a placeholder for the starting 3 spot till Ingram takes it from him and is ready.
Barnes wouldn't have helped in any of those aspects. Again, the Lakers are playing the long game. They're building their core of young talent and surrounding them with veterans till they come into their own and we're a playoff team, and then when we're a playoff team THEN the Lakers will pursue a big time free agent as the piece to 'put them over the top'. That is essentially the Lakers plan right now and I don't see them straying from it. Nor should they.
Making decisions like maxing someone cause they're 'there' and 'young' simply as the main reasons without any structure is what puts a team high on the payroll but stuck precisely where they are and unable to make any other moves to get better. We've seen this with many teams that are stuck in 'limbo' or 'slightly not good enough'. The Lakers aren't aiming for that. |
If the plan is for Ingram to take over that position then guess who is more tradable at that point? A versatile young forward who will be entering his prime or a 33/34 broken down forward?
Also I don't buy the vet leadership and player development angle. You have MWP for those 2 and burnt a roster spot for it. If you want 2 mentors and keep him in bubble wrap, u go with prince at min instead of Deng at 18/4 |
This assumes Barnes wanted to come here. Even Bazemore turned us down and he wasn't even on a championship team. |
point is we did not even try. he would have most definitely shown interest |
Yeah, we hired the guy who had coached him for a good part of the season and didn't pursue him. Let that sink in for a minute. |
Something *similar* could be said for Deng and Thibbs. |
Only Thibs did pursue Deng, he just didn't like the price. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2993
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | The coach who coached Deng for most of his career didn't offer anything close to what we offered him. That's similar enough for me. |
Minny's current standing should tell you how good/bad Thibs is as a GM. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think that Thibs was a victim of sticker shock last offseason. It seems more old school types suffered from that. I am sure there is a good share who think that only the Lebrons of the league should get max contracts. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Laker's Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 12883
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I think that Thibs was a victim of sticker shock last offseason. It seems more old school types suffered from that. I am sure there is a good share who think that only the Lebrons of the league should get max contracts. |
Thibs guys in particular were high cost this offseason. Noah and Deng got big free agent deals. Rose fetched a very nice bounty in trade and the Bulls asked for the moon for Butler (from Boston). Taj is definitely a Thibs guy and he'll be a FA this offseason. Will be interesting to see if Thibs makes a run in July. They have a lot invested up front: Towns, Dieng (4-year, $64M ext), Cole, Pekovic, Payne, J Hill. Shabaz and Bjelica both play more small ball four than wing.
Using Pek's salary slot to shift roster makeup with Deng, even if it costs a modest young piece or perhaps Rubio+ could make sense for them. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Laker's Fan wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I think that Thibs was a victim of sticker shock last offseason. It seems more old school types suffered from that. I am sure there is a good share who think that only the Lebrons of the league should get max contracts. |
Thibs guys in particular were high cost this offseason. Noah and Deng got big free agent deals. Rose fetched a very nice bounty in trade and the Bulls asked for the moon for Butler (from Boston). Taj is definitely a Thibs guy and he'll be a FA this offseason. Will be interesting to see if Thibs makes a run in July. They have a lot invested up front: Towns, Dieng (4-year, $64M ext), Cole, Pekovic, Payne, J Hill. Shabaz and Bjelica both play more small ball four than wing.
Using Pek's salary slot to shift roster makeup with Deng, even if it costs a modest young piece or perhaps Rubio+ could make sense for them. |
But not much sense for the Lakers unless they are getting something attractive, one of the young Wolve players or a #1 draft pick. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Mini Mamba Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013 Posts: 6006
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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How about a three team trade with Minny and Dallas?
We trade: Luol Deng and 2 second round picks
We get: Wes Matthews
Matthews provides defense and veteran leadership like Deng but is a much better shooter.
Dallas trades: Wes Matthews and Deron Williams
Dallas gets: Ricky Rubio, Shabazz Muhammad, 2 second round picks
Dallas is last in the western conference and getting a couple of young players like Rubio and Mohammed and draft picks will help them begin their rebuild.
Minny trades: Ricky Rubio and Shabazz Muhammad
Minny gets: Luol Deng and Deron Williams
Minny is looking for vets and get Williams who can mentor their young point guards and Deng who Thibs loves.
Thoughts? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Wes is done. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2993
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Laker's Fan wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I think that Thibs was a victim of sticker shock last offseason. It seems more old school types suffered from that. I am sure there is a good share who think that only the Lebrons of the league should get max contracts. |
Thibs guys in particular were high cost this offseason. Noah and Deng got big free agent deals. Rose fetched a very nice bounty in trade and the Bulls asked for the moon for Butler (from Boston). Taj is definitely a Thibs guy and he'll be a FA this offseason. Will be interesting to see if Thibs makes a run in July. They have a lot invested up front: Towns, Dieng (4-year, $64M ext), Cole, Pekovic, Payne, J Hill. Shabaz and Bjelica both play more small ball four than wing.
Using Pek's salary slot to shift roster makeup with Deng, even if it costs a modest young piece or perhaps Rubio+ could make sense for them. |
Unless Minny has a good improvement thoughout the season, the location and standing still will not attractive good free agents. A trade is more likely. They can easily trade Pekovic's expiring contract and their lottery pick for a good veteran. |
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Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Jim99187 wrote: | Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
No. probably Dlo and Ingram. Wall on a bargain deal. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
No. probably Dlo and Ingram. Wall on a bargain deal. |
Even Washington knows they would be lunatic to ask both DLO + Ingram
They need to move 1 of wall/beal |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Jim99187 wrote: | Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jim99187 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
No. probably Dlo and Ingram. Wall on a bargain deal. |
Even Washington knows they would be lunatic to ask both DLO + Ingram
They need to move 1 of wall/beal |
JC wouldn't move the needle at all. They would need to get at least one of DLo or Ingram, and they'd ask for both. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | Anyway we can get John wall? By only giving up Clarkson+pieces? |
No. probably Dlo and Ingram. Wall on a bargain deal. |
BOTH? THAT WOULD BE HORRIBLE.... |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Why do so many still think that other Front Offices will make trades that are bad for their teams and favorable to very favorable for the Lakers?
Unless the other FO is forced to use a Short List of acceptable destinations, Mitch will lack leverage to get a favorable trade. |
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LakersForever123 Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 2263
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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At this point, I will settle for deng to Minnesota for pekovic and minnesota's protected 2017 top 7 pick. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Harrison Barnes? Do y'all remember yourselves during the playoffs? Everyone hated Barnes, and I spent hours of my life that I'll never get back trying to convince you that DeMar DeRozan wasn't absolute garbage. Now we're lamenting not signing Barnes? |
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