I haven't really been blown away by anyone in this draft, yet. I don't see why it's considered so deep.
Agreed, outside of Fultz it seems like an average year. I guess it will be OK to finally cede our pick to the Process this year.
Mitch and Ryan should be able to work their magic with our second rounder.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because there looks like at least 8-10 prospects in this draft that I would have taken after Ingram and before Jaylen Brown in last year's mediocre draft (Fultz I rank on par with Ingram behind Simmons): Josh Jackson is a better defender, rebounder, and passer than Brown; Fox is a younger, better version of Dunn; Monk is nearly on par with Murray as a shooter, but is a much better athlete with defensive upside; and so on.
The 2017 draft doesn't have a generational talent to headline the class, but the quality in the lottery is on par with that of 2015 excluding KAT - it's just that this class will be point guard heavy where 2015 was loaded with bigs. It would be an excellent draft in which to have even a late lottery pick, but the Lakers have to pay the piper eventually, and this is almost assuredly the year they pay up.
I agree that this draft is deeper than 2016. I might have Fultz above Ingram, though it's still hard for me to properly compare because Ingram's age means he should really be in this current draft class (Ingram is half a year younger than Josh Jackson).
Gotta question. What do ya'll think of Dwayne Bacon?
For some reason he's considered a real late 1st round pick, I think that underrates him. He's averaging 16/4 on 49% from the field and 40% from the three point line. He stayed in college an extra year as he said he wanted/needed to work on his jump shot and his jumper off the dribble. Was a 28% three point shooter last year, thus far is a 40% three point shooter this year, so that speaks to his work ethic. He had a near 6'10 wingspan back in 2013 so I'd only assume it's there now, and he's a 6'7 shooting guard.
Anyway, thoughts?
Bacon's fine, but he seems more like a future leading scorer in the D-League than an NBA rotation player - he basically just scores, though I guess he has some upside as a neutral defender. On a team with Jordan Clarkson, I don't see what utility Bacon would have even if he reaches his low-ish ceiling.
I haven't really been blown away by anyone in this draft, yet. I don't see why it's considered so deep.
Agreed, outside of Fultz it seems like an average year. I guess it will be OK to finally cede our pick to the Process this year.
Mitch and Ryan should be able to work their magic with our second rounder.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, because there looks like at least 8-10 prospects in this draft that I would have taken after Ingram and before Jaylen Brown in last year's mediocre draft (Fultz I rank on par with Ingram behind Simmons): Josh Jackson is a better defender, rebounder, and passer than Brown; Fox is a younger, better version of Dunn; Monk is nearly on par with Murray as a shooter, but is a much better athlete with defensive upside; and so on.
The 2017 draft doesn't have a generational talent to headline the class, but the quality in the lottery is on par with that of 2015 excluding KAT - it's just that this class will be point guard heavy where 2015 was loaded with bigs. It would be an excellent draft in which to have even a late lottery pick, but the Lakers have to pay the piper eventually, and this is almost assuredly the year they pay up.
I agree that this draft is deeper than 2016. I might have Fultz above Ingram, though it's still hard for me to properly compare because Ingram's age means he should really be in this current draft class (Ingram is half a year younger than Josh Jackson).
I'm looking forward to seeing Fultz against Zaga and in conference (on bootleg streams; thanks Pac-12 network) before pushing him ahead of Ingram, but I expect he'll live up to it.
My 2015-2017 top o' draft rankings (subject to annual revision for the next decade):
KAT
Simmons
Porzingis
DLo/Fultz (?)
Ingram
Jackson
Turner
Booker
Bender
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
What do you guys think of Jonathon Isaac and his similarities with Ingram? I am glad to have Ingram and think he is a better defender than Isaac it is crazy how similar their games are.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
What do you guys think of Jonathon Isaac and his similarities with Ingram? I am glad to have Ingram and think he is a better defender than Isaac it is crazy how similar their games are.
I have only caught highlight vids of Isaac so far, but he's a quicker and more fluid athlete than Ingram, and is putting up better numbers more efficiently than BI was at this time last year. I'm looking forward to seeing if he can keep it up against ACC competition, and if he embraces more of a primary role as he gets acclimated.
Ingram's wingspan is more freakish, he and Isaac are basically the same age now, and I think BI is tougher despite being a little skinnier. But Isaac is a hell of an upside prospect and is a darkhorse #1 pick.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Yeah, Simmons would have immediately been compared to Magic and we wouldn't have the silly "is DLO a PG" arguments.
I still see Ingram as the "Bird" to Simmons "Magic." _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
How is Tatum and Giles doing? I remember they were 1 and 2 on the board not too long ago. Not anymore.
Giles had left knee arthroscopy on 10/3 and was initially expected to be out six weeks. Obviously it's been more than six weeks, and reports are that he's now projected to return before Christmas. Giles tore the ACL, MCL, and meniscus in his left knee back in 2013. He also missed his senior seas recovering from a right ACL tear. His health red flags are causing his stock to drop.
Tatum came back a week ago after sitting out with a foot strain. He put up 22 points against Florida last night in only his second collegiate game. He should make his move back up mock draft boards pretty soon.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Yeah, Simmons would have immediately been compared to Magic and we wouldn't have the silly "is DLO a PG" arguments.
I still see Ingram as the "Bird" to Simmons "Magic."
That would be an awesome rivalry! Though I've come to loathe the Sixers and I hope Embiid and Simmons both demand trades next summer.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Yeah, Simmons would have immediately been compared to Magic and we wouldn't have the silly "is DLO a PG" arguments.
I still see Ingram as the "Bird" to Simmons "Magic."
I was in love with Simmons at the draft. Dude has the perfect game to compliment D'LO (and JC) and from my POV will be a HOF guy. IMO, the gap between Simmons and Ingram is going to be equal to or larger than that between Towns and D'LO.
Luckily for us, Simmons isn't playing right now and besides Embiid, no rookie is really outplaying the other by miles here. Us fans have been spared of watching Simmons dazzle the NBA world with his passing while Ingram looks pedestrian thus far. Hopefully by the time Ben comes back, Ingram has found his game a little bit more.
Yes Simmons would have created roster imbalance, but that superstar upside is there and his floor is pretty damn high also. Randle would have been on the move.
I was in love with Simmons at the draft. Dude has the perfect game to compliment D'LO (and JC) and from my POV will be a HOF guy. IMO, the gap between Simmons and Ingram is going to be equal to or larger than that between Towns and D'LO.
Luckily for us, Simmons isn't playing right now and besides Embiid, no rookie is really outplaying the other by miles here. Us fans have been spared of watching Simmons dazzle the NBA world with his passing while Ingram looks pedestrian thus far. Hopefully by the time Ben comes back, Ingram has found his game a little bit more.
Yes Simmons would have created roster imbalance, but that superstar upside is there and his floor is pretty damn high also. Randle would have been on the move.
Eh. Not worried about that at all. Out of our hands. What we do have in our hands (DLO and Ingram) are fantastic and versatile players who will be great themselves.
While Ben probably would be dazzling, there is a chance his warts would also be exposed too against better competition. Some of them surfaced even in SPL. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144577 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Or maybe the Lakers draft Ingram anyway. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Or maybe the Lakers draft Ingram anyway.
True - Simmons is a full year younger than Ingram and more physically mature. By age 22-23 BI could surpass him and not look back.
I was in love with Simmons at the draft. Dude has the perfect game to compliment D'LO (and JC) and from my POV will be a HOF guy. IMO, the gap between Simmons and Ingram is going to be equal to or larger than that between Towns and D'LO.
Luckily for us, Simmons isn't playing right now and besides Embiid, no rookie is really outplaying the other by miles here. Us fans have been spared of watching Simmons dazzle the NBA world with his passing while Ingram looks pedestrian thus far. Hopefully by the time Ben comes back, Ingram has found his game a little bit more.
Yes Simmons would have created roster imbalance, but that superstar upside is there and his floor is pretty damn high also. Randle would have been on the move.
Although I do not agree there will be such a large gap between Simmons and Ingram, I do agree if there is a choice I will choose to have first pick and top 5 pick istead of two second picks.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Or maybe the Lakers draft Ingram anyway.
True - Simmons is a full year younger than Ingram and more physically mature. By age 22-23 BI could surpass him and not look back.
You meant Simmons is a full year older than Ingram?
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144577 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject:
lakersfan8 wrote:
2019 wrote:
I was in love with Simmons at the draft. Dude has the perfect game to compliment D'LO (and JC) and from my POV will be a HOF guy. IMO, the gap between Simmons and Ingram is going to be equal to or larger than that between Towns and D'LO.
Luckily for us, Simmons isn't playing right now and besides Embiid, no rookie is really outplaying the other by miles here. Us fans have been spared of watching Simmons dazzle the NBA world with his passing while Ingram looks pedestrian thus far. Hopefully by the time Ben comes back, Ingram has found his game a little bit more.
Yes Simmons would have created roster imbalance, but that superstar upside is there and his floor is pretty damn high also. Randle would have been on the move.
Although I do not agree there will be such a large gap between Simmons and Ingram, I do agree if there is a choice I will choose to have first pick and top 5 pick istead of two second picks.
And I would propose that at this moment in time we have no idea what the gap between Towns and DLO will be. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Wouldn't Simmons be a "pending" too? Who knows how he will hold up with that Jones fracture. It's a fickle injury.
Good point, since he hasn't suited up yet. I'm treating him like Fultz and Josh Jackson who are also "pending," but I think project as pretty special players in the NBA.
Yeah, I think Simmons is going to be special.
But Ingram works out just fine with our team too in different ways.
I'm a huge fan of Ingram - like a lot of folks at LG, I think if he reaches his ceiling, he's going to be a top-five player in the mold of Kawhi Leonard. And bcause he's such an unselfish, savvy two-way player who can work on and off ball, he's the perfect fit with Randle and Russell. Simmons, Brown, Dunn, Okafor, etc, would have created roster imbalance and/or accentuated current roster weaknesses on either offense or defense (or both sides in Okafor's case).
Agreed. Wonder what they would have done with Simmons/randle if we got Simmons (which I guess is somewhat of a good problem to have).
I think in that alternate universe Randle is packaged with Clarkson for any SF better than Deng, while Simmons is starting his career as a multi-time All-Star with comparisons to Magic.
Or maybe the Lakers draft Ingram anyway.
True - Simmons is a full year younger than Ingram and more physically mature. By age 22-23 BI could surpass him and not look back.
You meant Simmons is a full year older than Ingram?
He's an awesome athlete, but he's struggling on jumpers and is absolutely putrid on defense early on. From the very little I saw of him, his defense seems to be more of an effort issue than a talent issue.
Maybe he becomes prime Derrick Rose and the jumper/defense are outweighed by his offensive stupendousness, but he'd worry me as a fit in Walton's offense. I think at, say, pick #3 I'd rather take Fox as a potentially elite on-ball defender and try to teach him how to shoot.
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