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| Who you got after Fultz? |
| Lonzo Ball |
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75% |
[ 315 ] |
| Josh Jackson |
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15% |
[ 64 ] |
| Jayson Tatum |
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1% |
[ 8 ] |
| De'Aaron Fox |
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4% |
[ 20 ] |
| Malik Monk |
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1% |
[ 5 ] |
| Jonathan Isaac |
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0% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 416 |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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 Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
like that Moss guy....have not heard much from him since he left Brady.  |
I'll quit on the terrible football analogies, but apparently, Lonzo Ball and DLO are enough to get the Lakers to the championship based on style of play.
I just think it's a bit odd, considering Cleveland, GSW, Houston, and other great teams basically play with elite scoring, secondary playmaking wings/guards, not CP3 pass first traditional PGs.
I mean, Ball is a better shooter than Rajon Rondo out of college, but once Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen were gone, Rondo wasn't the same. |
yeah, I am more known for terrible analogies...except that great one about Jackson and the steel cage.
I do not comment on Lonzo as much because at some point, when everyone seems to see or get something I do not, it is difficult for me to assume everyone is wrong and only I am right....but at the same time, I see a guy that may be very good....love his size, ability to get up on oops.....seen some really cool passes, but I still do not see a sure fire all star. I do see a kid that better be special because the wolves are at the door waiting for him to slip....and I sincerely wish that was not the case.....because they all slip early on. |
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Roon
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Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
Let's be honest, the Lakers shouldn't be making any draft decisions with Randle in mind. |
They really shouldn't make draft decisions with anyone on the team in mind. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
Let's be honest, the Lakers shouldn't be making any draft decisions with Randle in mind. |
They really shouldn't make draft decisions with anyone on the team in mind. |
True, but some players should be more not in mind than others. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | that you'd have to be insane/ not know what you're talking about to prefer Ball over Fultz, just based on the analyses that I've read. |
Agreed. At least when Cranjis chooses Ball over Fultz, he does it through an analytical standpoint, even when I disagree about the terms of how the analysis comes through.
My issue has always been about context. If the analytical stat directly applies to a direct play/move, then it makes the most sense. Semi Ojeleye with a 2.19 PPP on pick and pop? Same screen, same shot, same angles of the shot. I think that directly translates and makes the stat VERY credible.
It's also like DAR's Iso or Post PPP. I don't have the exact numbers, but I recall both stats showing well in DARs favor for both play types based on the past season or two.
But when we're watching? I see DAR's Iso shots as more of "fling" shots, where he's lacking the ability to create space like he used to at the NCAA level. I don't expect those shots to continue to drop.
Then the Post PPP? I think that dropped because even though he had been successful in the past, it was due to a clear size mismatch for easier shots, hence the low volume. He has tried to take on bigger/stronger defenders in the post (like Lillard for example), and hasn't had the same result.
Same goes for Ingram and Kris Dunn, both players that I liked. Ingram basically duplicated what he did last season for Duke with tremendous improvements midseason. I'm not surprised. Dunn? He showed more efficiency from midrange and definitely had to deal with more defensive pressure his last season. His assist rate was once 50% and dropped to a stellar 44% still. But at the NBA level? Not only did the jumpshot not translate as well (his offensive skill set effectiveness is predicated on his midrange J and he used to kill it as a shooter out of PnR), but the assist rate didn't translate at all (18.3%?!?!?!?)
One would think that going from Ben Bentil to KAT as the best big would make this easier....
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
“He’s more like Dwyane Wade,” a Pacific Division scout says. “Dwyane has developed into a facilitator. I think that’s kind of what Markelle is |
That's EXACTLY why I want him. Not only do I think he's a VERY capable scorer, but it is exactly what the new wave NBA is. Playmaking guards, not pure PGs or SGs. I could easily argue that Curry plays like a playmaking SG, especially when Iguodala and Draymond run the offense, or even when he's playing alongside Livingston. James Harden already proved himself. Same with Devin Booker, who was basically forced into being a lead guard/playmaker/scorer.
We have one in DAR. Imagine two. |
I imagine that causing a take turns type offense and I don't believe those two are good enough to carry a team to a championship. Teams without a guy playing like one of the best of all time don't win playing that style. Lebron can do it, very few others can. The Mavs and Dirk are the outlier and got one with a legendary playoff performance where he was playing like a top ten ever player, Kobe was able to also. But the Spurs have won with TP and Kawhi as the best guys. Great players, but not on that level. They did it with guys who moved the ball exceptionally well. The Warriors did it that way too.
If Fultz had proven he can succeed without dominating the Ball I would be different. But the fact that Lonzo has not only proven he can play in that style, but also impose that style on his team makes it a easy choice for me and makes me think a player like that is more valuable. |
Wait, but Lonzo Ball and DLO are good enough to take to a championship?
Fultz DID prove he can succeed without dominating the ball (lower caps). There are even quotes from scouts that he would be even MORE successful playing a scoring role.
The fact that Fultz switched between PG and SG for nearly 20 minutes each game tells me more than enough. |
No but I believe they both need to the ball less than Fultz and can be more effective in a role with less usage. A Fultz/Russell backcourt takes the ball out of others hands more than a Ball/Russell one. I agree Fultz will be more effective as a scorer than facilitator but he still needs the ball in his hands a lot due to his poor catch and shoot numbers. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was having this discussion with someone recently, but since the last Lakers title, championships have:
1) Played unbelievably good team basketball. (Dallas, San Antonio, Golden State)
or
2) Had LeBron.
That's why I think you have to build your team in that high ball movement, high player movement type of style. Banking on a guy like Fultz (and Fultz is REALLY, REALLY good) or anyone else to be that level of dominant is a fool's errand, IMO. Heck, OKC even had 2 great individual talents without much ball/player movement (KD, Westbrook) and couldn't get to the Finals after they lost the 3rd. (Harden) |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
like that Moss guy....have not heard much from him since he left Brady. |
I'll quit on the terrible football analogies, but apparently, Lonzo Ball and DLO are enough to get the Lakers to the championship based on style of play.
I just think it's a bit odd, considering Cleveland, GSW, Houston, and other great teams basically play with elite scoring, secondary playmaking wings/guards, not CP3 pass first traditional PGs.
I mean, Ball is a better shooter than Rajon Rondo out of college, but once Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen were gone, Rondo wasn't the same. |
CP3 is ball dominant, Curry and Ball aren't. Cleveland has Lebron. Houston isn't getting to the finals with this current squad and how they play. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | I was having this discussion with someone recently, but since the last Lakers title, championships have:
1) Played unbelievably good team basketball. (Dallas, San Antonio, Golden State)
or
2) Had LeBron.
That's why I think you have to build your team in that high ball movement, high player movement type of style. Banking on a guy like Fultz (and Fultz is REALLY, REALLY good) or anyone else to be that level of dominant is a fool's errand, IMO. Heck, OKC even had 2 great individual talents without much ball/player movement (KD, Westbrook) and couldn't get to the Finals after they lost the 3rd. (Harden) |
This! |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
The point is he will get Julius and the other players better looks than they currently get. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I see a guy that may be very good....love his size, ability to get up on oops.....seen some really cool passes, but I still do not see a sure fire all star. I do see a kid that better be special because the wolves are at the door waiting for him to slip....and I sincerely wish that was not the case.....because they all slip early on.
_________________ |
There's A LOT I like about Lonzo, but I honestly don't expect him to be more than a 16ppg scorer simply because he's a low USG, high pass rate type of player.
Certain things about his game don't make sense to me. Other big PGs (like PJ Dozier for example) look obvious attacking the rim in a halfcourt set. Ball is elite size for a PG, but I don't see it happening as often. It's not like a layup is a low percentage shot.
I think Lonzo Ball is the riskiest type of player, only because I've seen great assist PGs that ran PnR run bad teams (early Andre Miller on Cleveland was A STUD, and they couldn't win), and yet, "Score first, playmaking second" guards and wings... Westbrook, Harden, Curry, LeBron, Wall, etc... dominate the league.
The 16ppg type PGs with great assist numbers like Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Elfrid Payton..... Not so much.
Scarier?
Even the 5-6apg guys that are legit scorers like Dame, Isaiah Thomas, Gordan Dragic, Kemba Walker... win games. Don't even need big assist numbers.
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Practice
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Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
The point is he will get Julius and the other players better looks than they currently get. |
They're getting pretty open looks now and are either hesitating or just failing to convert. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
The point is he will get Julius and the other players better looks than they currently get. |
I don't know man. Julius had some legit looks last night. Fumbled a few of those open looks off of DLOs passing. This is kind of what I mean by Lonzo needs a specific type of teammate. DLO did the best he could too, but in the end, both guys need a Pick and Pop, off ball PF, and that's not Julius or Nance. At least Nance can develop shooting.
Get Leaf's skill set onto the Lakers at PF and the Lakers get killed defensively, but at least the ball will move, and it wouldn't be simply because of Lonzo Ball. It's because guys like Leaf are off-ball types of players.
The Lakers moved the ball well in that 3rd quarter. They ran lineups with Nwaba for pete's sake.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | I see a guy that may be very good....love his size, ability to get up on oops.....seen some really cool passes, but I still do not see a sure fire all star. I do see a kid that better be special because the wolves are at the door waiting for him to slip....and I sincerely wish that was not the case.....because they all slip early on.
_________________ |
There's A LOT I like about Lonzo, but I honestly don't expect him to be more than a 16ppg scorer simply because he's a low USG, high pass rate type of player.
Certain things about his game don't make sense to me. Other big PGs (like PJ Dozier for example) look obvious attacking the rim in a halfcourt set. Ball is elite size for a PG, but I don't see it happening as often. It's not like a layup is a low percentage shot.
I think Lonzo Ball is the riskiest type of player, only because I've seen great assist PGs that ran PnR run bad teams (early Andre Miller on Cleveland was A STUD, and they couldn't win), and yet, "Score first, playmaking second" guards and wings... Westbrook, Harden, Curry, LeBron, Wall, etc... dominate the league.
The 16ppg type PGs with great assist numbers like Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Elfrid Payton..... Not so much.
Scarier?
Even the 5-6apg guys that are legit scorers like Dame, Isaiah Thomas, Gordan Dragic, Kemba Walker... win games. Don't even need big assist numbers. |
I get that but the thing that is so tempting about Ball is that he has those assist numbers with WAY less usage.
I also think he could be an 18-20 ppg guy with his transition ability and ridiculous range. |
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MickMgl
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | | I really want Fultz now, I totally flip flopped. I think that dude is going to be a superstar, and him and DLO would be a (bleep) nightmare to guard but I think Magic is all in on Lonzo just because he's from LA |
Or because he's just the better player. Or, more likely and more diplomatically, he's just Magic's type of player. Probably Walton's, too. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jhin0821 wrote: | | I can't imagine the Lakers waiting on another 19 yr old. No playoffs for 3-5 more seasons |
As a fan I'm ok with that if it's an exciting brand of basketball with a core of bright young players. Our current core and style doesn't particularly excite me, which is why i dont care who they trade away this offseason. Maybe a Fultz or Ball can change that. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
It was a bit of a joke from a couple of Super Bowls ago.....
But it's not like Julius Randle isn't getting open 3-point shots. I guess Lonzo Ball is somehow going to make those shots for him? |
The point is he will get Julius and the other players better looks than they currently get. |
I don't know man. Julius had some legit looks last night. Fumbled a few of those open looks off of DLOs passing. This is kind of what I mean by Lonzo needs a specific type of teammate. DLO did the best he could too, but in the end, both guys need a Pick and Pop, off ball PF, and that's not Julius or Nance. At least Nance can develop shooting.
Get Leaf's skill set onto the Lakers at PF and the Lakers get killed defensively, but at least the ball will move, and it wouldn't be simply because of Lonzo Ball. It's because guys like Leaf are off-ball types of players.
The Lakers moved the ball well in that 3rd quarter. They ran lineups with Nwaba for pete's sake. |
They get some good looks now. I think they will get way more due to Lonzos elite passing ability, range(which will create more space), and ability to speed up the pace of his team.
With that said, I agree that Randle doesn't fit well but I don't think he'll do Fultz any favors either. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I am sure this has been discussed on this board, but when you consider the pace that UCLA played at, and remove that advantage or just look at the per 100 possessions, I think Lonzo's stats are inflated.
Fultz - 35.7 PPG / 8.8 RPG / 9.1 APG - FT Attempts - 10.4
Ball - 22.4 PPG / 9.2 RPG /11.7 APG - FT Attempts - 4.2
Jackson- 29.7 PPG / 13.4 RPG / 5.4 APG - FT Attempts - 9.0
Tatum - 28.9 PPG / 12.6 RPG / 3.7 APG - FT Attempts - 8.2 |
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
like that Moss guy....have not heard much from him since he left Brady. |
I'll quit on the terrible football analogies, but apparently, Lonzo Ball and DLO are enough to get the Lakers to the championship based on style of play.
I just think it's a bit odd, considering Cleveland, GSW, Houston, and other great teams basically play with elite scoring, secondary playmaking wings/guards, not CP3 pass first traditional PGs.
I mean, Ball is a better shooter than Rajon Rondo out of college, but once Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen were gone, Rondo wasn't the same. |
CP3 is ball dominant, Curry and Ball aren't. Cleveland has Lebron. Houston isn't getting to the finals with this current squad and how they play. |
Other high assist PGs that aren't as reliant on scoring haven't been as effective with team record.
People want to look at championships right off the bat. There are quite a few steps before getting there.
GSW won the championship because they move the ball well. They also had their scorers in place.
The Lakers, don't even have that guy. It's not like Lonzo Ball landed in GSW and all of a sudden they started winning. The scorers were in place and they were well coached. The rest took care of itself. They hit quite a few contested shots and even more poor shot selection shots than the rest of the league. But it doesn't matter. Why? Klay, Curry, Durant, scorers first, playmaking second. They have Dray facilitate to them.
But I guess if you're comfortable with Lonzo Ball facilitating to DLO, then I'd understand.
Frankly, it doesn't make sense to me. I have trouble imagining DLO as a great scoring option. Teams like Cleveland and GSW, basically have 2 #1 types. GSW arguably has 3 #1 types.
The Lakers don't have that one guy.
IF IF IF IF they land someone like Blake Griffin or Paul George, then yeah, I definitely understand. Like I said, I have Lonzo #2. Unfortunately, the draft is before FA season. When the Lakers need a bucket, only DLO, in the past 2 weeks, has really stood out as a go-to guy. Can't rely on anyone else.
Cleveland nor GSW have Lonzo Ball type passing/vision. They're fine.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I am sure this has been discussed on this board, but when you consider the pace that UCLA played at, and remove that advantage or just look at the per 100 possessions, I think Lonzo's stats are inflated.
Fultz - 35.7 PPG / 8.8 RPG / 9.1 APG - FT Attempts - 10.4
Ball - 22.4 PPG / 9.2 RPG /11.7 APG - FT Attempts - 4.2
Jackson- 29.7 PPG / 13.4 RPG / 5.4 APG - FT Attempts - 9.0
Tatum - 28.9 PPG / 12.6 RPG / 3.7 APG - FT Attempts - 8.2 |
Lonzo will play that pace or at least forcefully do so. Fultz really stands out IMHO, and that's why I think of him as basically, James Harden.
It's not the best formula, but I see what just Nurkic does for Lillard and CJ and think, yeah, that's something to build on. But that 2nd scorer needs to be in place.
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MickMgl
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | allNet wrote: | | From what I've seen teams attacked UCLA's zone and Ball with high screens, the other players had to shade over on zone to help Ball. Alford would often stick Ball in the corner afterwards. |
You mean UCLA's bigs helped in the PnR?
UCLA was a poorly coached defensive team and generally has been under Steve Alford - it wasn't uncommon for defenders to over-help, miscommunicate, etc. |
any truth to the claim that Alford only pulled out of Indiana job after Indiana informed him they were hiring someone else? |
That's the word. Alford's agent was pursuing the position and Indiana was interested, but during Sweet 16 week Indiana AD Glass started to get inernal pushback against Seve. When Alford's agent - who was the main one pushing the Alford to IU as "done deal" narrative to guys like Dakich - tried to pin down Glass, he was informed that Alford was but "one of a handful" of candidates and Alford's agent quickly pulled his client out of the running (obviously IU was in negotiations with Miller and Alford had become a backup plan). This was on Friday a few hours before the UK game. So when Alford stated after the loss that he was 100% with UCLA, he basically learned he wasn't getting the IU job that afternoon. |
Alford's kind of shifty that way. |
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Raijin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | Do you guys prefer to pick the best player available with 27th pick or select a player fit into our need i.e 3&D or stretch 4 |
Best player, we are way too far from contending to fill for positional need. Regardless at theend of the 1st round I want the player that's going to have a career in the NBA not just a single multi-year contract
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"It was tough," Kobe Bryant said. "But when it got really tough for me, I just checked myself in." |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | Hey, not to worry. If we draft Ball, we know in the critical point of the game he will make the right pass! To who you ask? I really don't know yet? |
It's like Tom Brady needs to pass to himself when his receivers keep dropping catches. |
That's a terrible analogy for your argument. Tom Brady makes no names into pro bowlers. Similar to the effect many of us think Lonzo could have on his teammates. |
like that Moss guy....have not heard much from him since he left Brady. |
I'll quit on the terrible football analogies, but apparently, Lonzo Ball and DLO are enough to get the Lakers to the championship based on style of play.
I just think it's a bit odd, considering Cleveland, GSW, Houston, and other great teams basically play with elite scoring, secondary playmaking wings/guards, not CP3 pass first traditional PGs.
I mean, Ball is a better shooter than Rajon Rondo out of college, but once Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen were gone, Rondo wasn't the same. |
To be fair, that was Rondo post-ACL tear. |
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Raijin
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 6576
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| MickMgl wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | allNet wrote: | | From what I've seen teams attacked UCLA's zone and Ball with high screens, the other players had to shade over on zone to help Ball. Alford would often stick Ball in the corner afterwards. |
You mean UCLA's bigs helped in the PnR?
UCLA was a poorly coached defensive team and generally has been under Steve Alford - it wasn't uncommon for defenders to over-help, miscommunicate, etc. |
any truth to the claim that Alford only pulled out of Indiana job after Indiana informed him they were hiring someone else? |
That's the word. Alford's agent was pursuing the position and Indiana was interested, but during Sweet 16 week Indiana AD Glass started to get inernal pushback against Seve. When Alford's agent - who was the main one pushing the Alford to IU as "done deal" narrative to guys like Dakich - tried to pin down Glass, he was informed that Alford was but "one of a handful" of candidates and Alford's agent quickly pulled his client out of the running (obviously IU was in negotiations with Miller and Alford had become a backup plan). This was on Friday a few hours before the UK game. So when Alford stated after the loss that he was 100% with UCLA, he basically learned he wasn't getting the IU job that afternoon. |
Alford's kind of shifty that way. |
Alford's a subpar coach
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"It was tough," Kobe Bryant said. "But when it got really tough for me, I just checked myself in." |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I am sure this has been discussed on this board, but when you consider the pace that UCLA played at, and remove that advantage or just look at the per 100 possessions, I think Lonzo's stats are inflated.
Fultz - 35.7 PPG / 8.8 RPG / 9.1 APG - FT Attempts - 10.4
Ball - 22.4 PPG / 9.2 RPG /11.7 APG - FT Attempts - 4.2
Jackson- 29.7 PPG / 13.4 RPG / 5.4 APG - FT Attempts - 9.0
Tatum - 28.9 PPG / 12.6 RPG / 3.7 APG - FT Attempts - 8.2 |
Lonzo will play that pace or at least forcefully do so. Fultz really stands out IMHO, and that's why I think of him as basically, James Harden.
It's not the best formula, but I see what just Nurkic does for Lillard and CJ and think, yeah, that's something to build on. But that 2nd scorer needs to be in place. |
as a Jordan Clarkson fan, I would advise Lonzo to get to the line more...it is very difficult to be a consistent scorer in the NBA without getting to the line 5-7x a night. |
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MickMgl
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | MickMgl wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I understand the high usage tough shot maker argument but completely disagree with it. Those players aren't as valuable as guys who limit the amount of tough shots your team needs to take IMO. If that's the reason people want Fultz, I think they are putting value in the wrong skills. |
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Really? We got quite a few championships from the toughest shot maker in the game for awhile... |
Got quite a few championships the other way, too. |
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