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LawyerShawn Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1834
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | driver wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | After a year of watching D'LO, I deem him the Eddie Jones of this team. That borderline all-star that is solid, but certainly not a building block. |
For a team with 26 wins, wouldn't a potentially borderline all star caliber player in the west be a good building block to develop? Not talking franchise cornerstone, Towns-level prospect here. Just a building block. |
Possibly as bait, similar to Eddie + Van Exel were for Shaq (we are potentially seeing this happen with Paul George as we speak). |
If Ingram and Russell get traded for Shaq, I'd be thrilled. Hell, I'd wonder the time machine we used. If they get traded for George, I'd (bleep) lose it. |
Well, no. Shaq wanted to come to LA to play ALONGSIDE those two. Which is why I have been adamant about NOT trading for ANYONE until we are ripe for it. Otherwise, we will be stuck in Utah Jazz mediocre purgatory. |
Preach it, man.
BTW, LFR here. |
My apologies, what is LFR? _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26442
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
it's more to do with "Ingram was the guy I WANTED US TO DRAFT." mentality, against the "I didn't want to draft D'lo, and I'm gonna find every reason to push the agenda against him that I can!" mentality. Some people unfortunately have one or the other, or both. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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LawyerShawn wrote: | My apologies, what is LFR? |
It's Pete from Laker Film Room.
Or maybe you aren't the LawyerShawn that I think you are. |
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LawyerShawn Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1834
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | My apologies, what is LFR? |
It's Pete from Laker Film Room.
Or maybe you aren't the LawyerShawn that I think you are. |
Yes, not I. Although, I did go by an old moniker of Ataris_Punk here years back.
This other LawyerShawn is clearly an imposer. _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up. |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
it's more to do with "Ingram was the guy I WANTED US TO DRAFT." mentality, against the "I didn't want to draft D'lo, and I'm gonna find every reason to push the agenda against him that I can!" mentality. Some people unfortunately have one or the other, or both. |
actually I think it's due to how athletic DLO is and his play style. Most people directly relate potential/ceiling with how athletic a player is so they see DLO and think his potential isn't as high because he's not the most athletic player.
The eye test is deceiving in this case because if you watch DLO it looks like he's slow and not going at 100% all the time. But I think that's more of his play style then effort. People want the guy that grabs the rebound, goes 0-100 MPH and shows quickness. But that's not DLO's game and it never will be.
DLO's game is exploiting the matchup, making the correct read not just blow by speed. His potential isn't obvious, but his production is. Posters who can see his production see that he's not bad but posters who only care about potential will never see it with him because for the most part, it's not going to be backed up with the eye test. _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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LawyerShawn wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
Rational fans don't doubt his talent. It is his consistency that is absent. Eddie Jones suffered from the same problem, once playoffs came around, brick city in clutch moments.
Raise that shooting %, then we can talk. |
I think Eddie Jones had the Laker fan base because like Ingram, he had the eye-test things down (two straight dunks on Shawn Bradley, elite at forcing turnovers on defense).
I don't even think it's so much of a shooting % thing. It's just general consistency in terms of decision-making game to game. Some games he looks awesome and doesn't put up big numbers, but the team played efficiently. Other games, it's erratic. Playing DAR at SG just made it easier for fans on the eye-test because he was scoring. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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LawyerShawn wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | My apologies, what is LFR? |
It's Pete from Laker Film Room.
Or maybe you aren't the LawyerShawn that I think you are. |
Yes, not I. Although, I did go by an old moniker of Ataris_Punk here years back.
This other LawyerShawn is clearly an imposer. |
Ha! Sorry about that.
Yes, I'll tell other LawyerShawn that. You've got him pegged. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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LawyerShawn wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | My apologies, what is LFR? |
It's Pete from Laker Film Room.
Or maybe you aren't the LawyerShawn that I think you are. |
Yes, not I. Although, I did go by an old moniker of Ataris_Punk here years back.
This other LawyerShawn is clearly an imposer. |
San Dimas High School Football Rules.
Talk about bands I've seen roughly 8 times, met before, had songs dedicated to other friends through them, etc. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17891
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
Rational fans don't doubt his talent. It is his consistency that is absent. Eddie Jones suffered from the same problem, once playoffs came around, brick city in clutch moments.
Raise that shooting %, then we can talk. |
I think Eddie Jones had the Laker fan base because like Ingram, he had the eye-test things down (two straight dunks on Shawn Bradley, elite at forcing turnovers on defense).
I don't even think it's so much of a shooting % thing. It's just general consistency in terms of decision-making game to game. Some games he looks awesome and doesn't put up big numbers, but the team played efficiently. Other games, it's erratic. Playing DAR at SG just made it easier for fans on the eye-test because he was scoring. |
Honestly, his stats as an SG weren't even better. It's exactly the Porzingis effect: he killed it his first few games as "SG" (i.e. playing next to Clarkson, whether or not he was actually running SG type actions), and so it was established he's better as an SG. No one even includes the fact that he slumped to end the season. Meanwhile in 400+ minutes next to Young, Deng, Randle, and Mozgov as a true "PG" he was actually amazing. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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^Agreed. It was just easier to see DAR in a "scoring action" lead to points, especially with the idea that he looked aggressive. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
Ingram age and rail thin frame matters here.
It is just the same way I like Russell better when it is Booker the guard scoring 70 per game. Sometimes you have to look further outside well-rounded numbers. Even Okafor had well rounded numbers as a rookie.
At this point calling either Russell or Ingram an outstanding asset is premature, but it is really the eye test that leads most experts to believe Ingram is the best long term prospect.
Last edited by nash on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | ^Agreed. It was just easier to see DAR in a "scoring action" lead to points, especially with the idea that he looked aggressive. |
I like his tools scoring better. I believe a primary distributor should be able to use his offhand, throw a lob pass and work in the heart of defense with more consistency. I look at him as a talented scorer that has superior court vision and good passing skills to hit the open man. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Vancouver Fan wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. | Dunks baby. |
Thing is it's not just fans that believe this. Is it all about the dunks with the professional commentators? Some of you cats are way too dismissive of alternative perspectives from non advanced stats aficionados.
At the end of the day we're all expressing projections. No way to be certain of anyones trajectory. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144476 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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LilJay24 wrote: | MJST wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | I don't know what DAR has to do to prove the legitimacy of his talent. I think fans are just more convinced of Ingram because of the eye test, rather than the well-rounded numbers that DAR puts up across the board (and beats out Ingram) except for rebounds and swats. |
it's more to do with "Ingram was the guy I WANTED US TO DRAFT." mentality, against the "I didn't want to draft D'lo, and I'm gonna find every reason to push the agenda against him that I can!" mentality. Some people unfortunately have one or the other, or both. |
actually I think it's due to how athletic DLO is and his play style. Most people directly relate potential/ceiling with how athletic a player is so they see DLO and think his potential isn't as high because he's not the most athletic player.
The eye test is deceiving in this case because if you watch DLO it looks like he's slow and not going at 100% all the time. But I think that's more of his play style then effort. People want the guy that grabs the rebound, goes 0-100 MPH and shows quickness. But that's not DLO's game and it never will be.
DLO's game is exploiting the matchup, making the correct read not just blow by speed. His potential isn't obvious, but his production is. Posters who can see his production see that he's not bad but posters who only care about potential will never see it with him because for the most part, it's not going to be backed up with the eye test. |
Of all the people complaining about DLO not blowing by guys and not going hard to the hole, none of them are on the Lakers coaching staff. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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vdogg11 Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Apr 2017 Posts: 202
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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D'Angelo CAN get to the basket, and he was doing it a lot more after the ASB. is he ever gonna be westbrook or a young derrick rose? no, but it's all about him learning to use angles and timing. and he's NOT a SG, that much we know. D'Angelo needs the ball in his hands to be effective. he needs to be more consistent, and I think he'll get there. it's foolish to talk about him as being a finished product when he just turned 21. |
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panamaniac Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 11240 Location: PTY
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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vdogg11 wrote: | D'Angelo CAN get to the basket, and he was doing it a lot more after the ASB. is he ever gonna be westbrook or a young derrick rose? no, but it's all about him learning to use angles and timing. and he's NOT a SG, that much we know. D'Angelo needs the ball in his hands to be effective. he needs to be more consistent, and I think he'll get there. it's foolish to talk about him as being a finished product when he just turned 21. |
If Dlo can evolve into an elite shooter, his driving to the rim will come alot easier. I know that sounds like a lot to ask. But Dlo's base skillset is high enough that I think he can get there. We need to hire an ace shooting coach. |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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If Luke didn't have that BS egalitarian system for the first half of the season, and DLO was given the 33MPG like he did after ASB he could have averaged 18/5/4 on 43/35/80 as a 21 year old.
Imagine what the narrative would be then _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: |
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LilJay24 wrote: | If Luke didn't have that BS egalitarian system for the first half of the season, and DLO was given the 33MPG like he did after ASB he could have averaged 18/5/4 on 43/35/80 as a 21 year old.
Imagine what the narrative would be then |
You mean, where DAR looked legit as a PG and the Lakers started 10-10 and beat playoff teams?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russeda01/gamelog/2017
Look at the W/L record as soon as he got injured. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | LilJay24 wrote: | If Luke didn't have that BS egalitarian system for the first half of the season, and DLO was given the 33MPG like he did after ASB he could have averaged 18/5/4 on 43/35/80 as a 21 year old.
Imagine what the narrative would be then |
You mean, where DAR looked legit as a PG and the Lakers started 10-10 and beat playoff teams?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russeda01/gamelog/2017
Look at the W/L record as soon as he got injured. |
I think the narrative would've been DLo taking a young Lakers squad to the playoff |
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Wildchild027 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 3846 Location: A-T-L-A-N-T-A
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | driver wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | After a year of watching D'LO, I deem him the Eddie Jones of this team. That borderline all-star that is solid, but certainly not a building block. |
For a team with 26 wins, wouldn't a potentially borderline all star caliber player in the west be a good building block to develop? Not talking franchise cornerstone, Towns-level prospect here. Just a building block. |
Possibly as bait, similar to Eddie + Van Exel were for Shaq (we are potentially seeing this happen with Paul George as we speak). |
If Ingram and Russell get traded for Shaq, I'd be thrilled. Hell, I'd wonder the time machine we used. If they get traded for George, I'd (bleep) lose it. |
Yeah, Paul George is a really good player, but I think that distinction is being lost when we're talking about trading for him. Although Shawn's point was that Eddie & Van Exel were part of that made the team appealing to a superstar FA, and I agree with that. |
I don't think Eddie and Nick made the team more appealing to Shaq, I think LA, and the Lakers' history made the Lakers more appealing to Shaq. Shaq left a better team in Orlando to come to the Lakers. |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Wildchild027 wrote: |
I don't think Eddie and Nick made the team more appealing to Shaq, I think LA, and the Lakers' history made the Lakers more appealing to Shaq. Shaq left a better team in Orlando to come to the Lakers. |
Was Orlando better? Weren't they a low-mid 40 win team after Shaq left while the Lakers were a 50-win team right before Shaq got on board? _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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wow...hyperbole |
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crucifixion Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 909
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Eddie Jones yeah I think I would concur. Not in exact skill set but in role on team and value. Solid player that can be a legitimate 1x all star and backdoor 1-2x all star thru injuries and circumstances
Great supporting role player once we get a legitimate all star or valuable piece to acquire that all star. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Wildchild027 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | driver wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | LawyerShawn wrote: | After a year of watching D'LO, I deem him the Eddie Jones of this team. That borderline all-star that is solid, but certainly not a building block. |
For a team with 26 wins, wouldn't a potentially borderline all star caliber player in the west be a good building block to develop? Not talking franchise cornerstone, Towns-level prospect here. Just a building block. |
Possibly as bait, similar to Eddie + Van Exel were for Shaq (we are potentially seeing this happen with Paul George as we speak). |
If Ingram and Russell get traded for Shaq, I'd be thrilled. Hell, I'd wonder the time machine we used. If they get traded for George, I'd (bleep) lose it. |
Yeah, Paul George is a really good player, but I think that distinction is being lost when we're talking about trading for him. Although Shawn's point was that Eddie & Van Exel were part of that made the team appealing to a superstar FA, and I agree with that. |
I don't think Eddie and Nick made the team more appealing to Shaq, I think LA, and the Lakers' history made the Lakers more appealing to Shaq. Shaq left a better team in Orlando to come to the Lakers. |
There are many FAs since then who have been reported to be intrigued with the Lakers history. The difference is that the mid 90's Lakers teams were getting to the 1st/2nd round of the playoffs, in large part due to NVE & Eddie.
If we can get this team to be a 1st/2nd Round caliber squad while having room for a superstar, I think we have a good shot of getting him. I don't think Shaq comes to a 26 win team, even if he liked LA. |
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AY2043 Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012 Posts: 10621
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Kendall Marshall => Derek Fisher => Tyler Ennis => Eddie Jones
PROGRESS!! |
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