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SOLakerFan Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 344
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | I see no reason to let Randle walk, he's a valuable asset that can't easily be replaced when the teams capped out. |
If everything goes well and we can trade Deng, then we could have 2 max slots plus $12 million in space. Then the question becomes, who would we prioritize: Randle, CKP or Clarkson?
It's tough but I think I'd prioritize KCP over Randle and JC because he fits better with the rest of the team because he's more of a 3 and D guy. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26420
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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SOLakerFan wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | I see no reason to let Randle walk, he's a valuable asset that can't easily be replaced when the teams capped out. |
If everything goes well and we can trade Deng, then we could have 2 max slots plus $12 million in space. Then the question becomes, who would we prioritize: Randle, CKP or Clarkson?
It's tough but I think I'd prioritize KCP over Randle and JC because he fits better with the rest of the team because he's more of a 3 and D guy. |
You prioritize keeping the people you can keep and not letting them walk while waiting on free agents to make up their mind. At least have them know the priorities if they ball out.
If KCP had a year where he scores 18 ppg and shoots 40% from three and is playing amazing defense, he shouldn't be a guy we ask to 'wait" for 2 weeks, we should bring him back ASAP. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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LaxT Star Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 2536
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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SOLakerFan wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | I see no reason to let Randle walk, he's a valuable asset that can't easily be replaced when the teams capped out. |
If everything goes well and we can trade Deng, then we could have 2 max slots plus $12 million in space. Then the question becomes, who would we prioritize: Randle, CKP or Clarkson?
It's tough but I think I'd prioritize KCP over Randle and JC because he fits better with the rest of the team because he's more of a 3 and D guy. |
KCP isn't going to play for 12mil a year. If he would, no one here will want to keep him. It's Randle or Clarkson. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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LaxT wrote: | nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
Why would you want to give up that much for $7mil in cap savings? They'll stretch him and keep Randle. He plays 3,4 and 5, that fits LBJ and PG fine. |
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GonzagaAlum Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 3021
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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The more I look at this thing the more I think deal randle and Clarkson for future picks and start Deng at PF for a year, then deal Deng as an expiring with assets for whoever is the superstar on the block 2 years from now _________________ How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
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LaxT Star Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 2536
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | LaxT wrote: | nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
Why would you want to give up that much for $7mil in cap savings? They'll stretch him and keep Randle. He plays 3,4 and 5, that fits LBJ and PG fine. |
Then what?
If you stretch Deng and trade JC for nothing, you still don't get under the cap. Then if Randle signs an offer elsewhere, what do you do?
If you think Randle fits with Ball/Ingram/PG/LBJ, we will have to agree to disagree.
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As you can see, this doesn’t bring the Lakers under the cap. And short of trading some three-person combination of Larry Nance, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac, it won’t get them under the cap.
Quite simply, the Lakers have to trade Deng. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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LaxT wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | LaxT wrote: | nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
Why would you want to give up that much for $7mil in cap savings? They'll stretch him and keep Randle. He plays 3,4 and 5, that fits LBJ and PG fine. |
Then what?
If you stretch Deng and trade JC for nothing, you still don't get under the cap. Then if Randle signs an offer elsewhere, what do you do?
If you think Randle fits with Ball/Ingram/PG/LBJ, we will have to agree to disagree.
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As you can see, this doesn’t bring the Lakers under the cap. And short of trading some three-person combination of Larry Nance, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac, it won’t get them under the cap.
Quite simply, the Lakers have to trade Deng. |
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Getting two max FA's is very doable.
You can stretch Deng, trade Clarkson for picks and stay under the cap if: LeBron takes $4.2mil less than his max, or we sign another $30mil FA like Cousins.
Read the article in the link, it explains all the options very clearly. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:16 am Post subject: |
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LaxT wrote: | nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
That's not the same. Jules is going to be a RFA next year. So you're asking a team to basically take 35-40m/year on Jules/Deng in 2018 and beyond. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:28 am Post subject: |
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i see
Last edited by epak on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Getting two max FA's is very doable.
You can stretch Deng, trade Clarkson for picks and stay under the cap if: LeBron takes $4.2mil less than his max, or we sign another $30mil FA like Cousins.
Read the article in the link, it explains all the options very clearly. |
Lets be realistic, players eventually take a $4 mil discount to play for teams like GS, if players like LeBron or PG13 are willing to come to a franchise with our recent record we don't ask them to take a pay cut to play with Julius Randle, they are going to say: "Julius who? Goodbye".
Superstars have a huge ego and if they feel disrespected in any way they are not going to come.
I can think about 4 scenarios involving Julius Randle next season, the first 3 are good and the last one is the least desirable:
- He comes back playing like a legit superstar turning himself into one of the max players we want to sign. Not an easy task going from slight above average to superstar in one offseason;
- He comes back playing well enough to allow us to unload Deng contract in a trade for an expiring player. Even with Julius playing well, more assets would be necessary to unload Deng;
- We move Julius at the trade deadline for future considerations;
- We make him a restrict free agent, basically losing another high lottery pick for nothing. Not impossible to keep him, but as improbable as the first scenario.
If LeBron and PG13 come asking us to keep Julius that they are willing to take the necessary pay cuts it is the best of the scenarios, but if I'm one of those players I'd ask to keep Lopez, we have good depth at the PF position and both of those players can eventually play 4.
Ps: for those telling PG13 don't want to play any minute as PF I'm sure he is not going to complain when matched against Kevin Durant at this spot, this is small ball period we have seen Kobe as PF for a few minutes.
Last edited by nash on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | He could sign the same kind of opt out he has in Cleveland. It's really not a stretch to believe a guy who makes 50mil off the court would fret over a few million. He owns a house in LA and he wants to set up his post playing career. This would be a chance to create a final legacy in the media capital of the world. I think he has every intention of coming to LA , a few million means nothing to him.
Durant set the precedent.
It's not about saving the Lakers money, it's about stepping into a better team. Remember who complained about his team being top heavy? He knows that more talent is better. |
It would be about saving the Lakers cap space, he would be going to a much worse team. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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LaxT wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | LaxT wrote: | nash wrote: |
They worked under the premise that we would like to let KCP and Lopez go, move JC and Deng and keep Randle, it looks more like a LG debate than a real analysis of the scenario, but it helps us to visualize how much we have in those scenarios. |
The two-max dream again.
If James and PG do sign here, how will Randle fit? I don't think he does.
After reading the article, I feel the best option is to do a Moz+Russell type of trade again. Deng+Randle for expiring contracts. May have to throw in cash, young assets and/or picks, but that's the main package.
If not, it might be better to sign one max and pieces that fit. |
Why would you want to give up that much for $7mil in cap savings? They'll stretch him and keep Randle. He plays 3,4 and 5, that fits LBJ and PG fine. |
Then what?
If you stretch Deng and trade JC for nothing, you still don't get under the cap. Then if Randle signs an offer elsewhere, what do you do?
If you think Randle fits with Ball/Ingram/PG/LBJ, we will have to agree to disagree.
Quote: |
As you can see, this doesn’t bring the Lakers under the cap. And short of trading some three-person combination of Larry Nance, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Ivica Zubac, it won’t get them under the cap.
Quite simply, the Lakers have to trade Deng. |
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If you think anyone not named Randle in your post can guard Draymond then you are wildly mistaken. It should be about fit, not names. If anyone doesn't fit in that group it is Ingram. I have no idea why you think that the team won't be under the cap, that is a given. If not, we can't sign any top FA. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Do it Mitch! Star Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2016 Posts: 1062
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Randle is one of the worst defensive PF's in the entire NBA. And has yet to show any ability to defend draymond green so far. Looking forward to the breakout season |
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textbook Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2015 Posts: 2183
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Randle signing the qualifying offer with a wink wink deal in place the following year is the way to go. I don't get why they author thinks this is "shady" for the lakers. It will get Randle to 5mil. It would give us a lot more room. Those are the rules, and you have to work around them as best you can. Was Durant and Golden State Shady for him taking less?
I think the more likely scenario is Randle/Deng/First rounder get traded to clear up room. I think Lebron would play the 4...Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron/? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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textbook wrote: | Randle signing the qualifying offer with a wink wink deal in place the following year is the way to go. I don't get why they author thinks this is "shady" for the lakers. It will get Randle to 5mil. It would give us a lot more room. Those are the rules, and you have to work around them as best you can. Was Durant and Golden State Shady for him taking less?
I think the more likely scenario is Randle/Deng/First rounder get traded to clear up room. I think Lebron would play the 4...Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron/? |
It wouldn't need to be a wink wink deal. If Randle doesn't get a big RFA offer (from the Mavs?) then sign the QO and if he has a great 2018-2019 season, the Lakers bid on him with Bird Rights.
And who is willing to pay $40 mil for Randle? By including Deng that is what you are asking a team to do. Again, can't we have a little realism? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | textbook wrote: | Randle signing the qualifying offer with a wink wink deal in place the following year is the way to go. I don't get why they author thinks this is "shady" for the lakers. It will get Randle to 5mil. It would give us a lot more room. Those are the rules, and you have to work around them as best you can. Was Durant and Golden State Shady for him taking less?
I think the more likely scenario is Randle/Deng/First rounder get traded to clear up room. I think Lebron would play the 4...Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron/? |
It wouldn't need to be a wink wink deal. If Randle doesn't get a big RFA offer (from the Mavs?) then sign the QO and if he has a great 2018-2019 season, the Lakers bid on him with Bird Rights.
And who is willing to pay $40 mil for Randle? By including Deng that is what you are asking a team to do. Again, can't we have a little realism? |
Exactly right. If someone was willing to pay the $40mil, we wouldn't want to trade him. Deng will be stretched or traded for low cost players and/or picks. I'm in favor of stretching before the team is permanently capped by signing Max FA's. More assets are better. You have Bird Rights and therefore can exceed the cap to resign them. Once your capped, it's more difficult to add players. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: |
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It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
Sure. But if no team is willing to pay him the amount he wants (i.e. 18-20m/year), isn't he going to go that route anyways (unless the Lakers renounce him)? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
Sure. But if no team is willing to pay him the amount he wants (i.e. 18-20m/year), isn't he going to go that route anyways (unless the Lakers renounce him)? |
If no team is willing to pay $12.4 for him next year, then we won't either. This equation is assuming he plays well enough we want to keep him.
If they hold his cap space at $12.4mil, they can re-sign him and exceed the cap after they sign the two max FA's. That's why to keep him and preserve to max slots, Clarkson would have to go, or vice versa. Next year, they're both playing to stay with the team beyond 2018. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
Sure. But if no team is willing to pay him the amount he wants (i.e. 18-20m/year), isn't he going to go that route anyways (unless the Lakers renounce him)? |
If no team is willing to pay $12.4 for him next year, then we won't either. This equation is assuming he plays well enough we want to keep him.
If they hold his cap space at $12.4mil, they can re-sign him and exceed the cap after they sign the two max FA's. That's why to keep him and preserve to max slots, Clarkson would have to go, or vice versa. Next year, they're both playing to stay with the team beyond 2018. |
The only problem is reaching that carve out of 12.4m. Would require Deng/JC at the least being traded out with nothing coming back. Then, you probably have to shed a few more smaller deals too. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | textbook wrote: | Randle signing the qualifying offer with a wink wink deal in place the following year is the way to go. I don't get why they author thinks this is "shady" for the lakers. It will get Randle to 5mil. It would give us a lot more room. Those are the rules, and you have to work around them as best you can. Was Durant and Golden State Shady for him taking less?
I think the more likely scenario is Randle/Deng/First rounder get traded to clear up room. I think Lebron would play the 4...Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron/? |
It wouldn't need to be a wink wink deal. If Randle doesn't get a big RFA offer (from the Mavs?) then sign the QO and if he has a great 2018-2019 season, the Lakers bid on him with Bird Rights.
And who is willing to pay $40 mil for Randle? By including Deng that is what you are asking a team to do. Again, can't we have a little realism? |
Exactly right. If someone was willing to pay the $40mil, we wouldn't want to trade him. Deng will be stretched or traded for low cost players and/or picks. I'm in favor of stretching before the team is permanently capped by signing Max FA's. More assets are better. You have Bird Rights and therefore can exceed the cap to resign them. Once your capped, it's more difficult to add players. |
We won't trade Deng with nothing coming back. We had to take $22 mil Lopez to dump Mozgov, and I would argue he brings more on the court than Deng does. Stretching is likely the only way. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
Sure. But if no team is willing to pay him the amount he wants (i.e. 18-20m/year), isn't he going to go that route anyways (unless the Lakers renounce him)? |
JR checks many of the boxes that Dallas needs, I would be surprised if there is no interest. If Matthews opts out or signs a smaller deal they can have $40-50 mil in cap space. Cuban will be active. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | kevin61 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | It's a big gamble but if Jules wants to stay here, and be a part of a championship core, that may be the ultimate price (i.e. taking QO and letting the Lakers sign him over the cap in 2019). Then again, he would also be a UFA in 2019 so he could leave too. |
Im the eternal optimist, but I'd be shocked if he took that route. Once you get to that point, you have to take "money for life", it's just too big a risk not to. If I was advising him, I'd tell him that, especially considering his injury history. |
Sure. But if no team is willing to pay him the amount he wants (i.e. 18-20m/year), isn't he going to go that route anyways (unless the Lakers renounce him)? |
JR checks many of the boxes that Dallas needs, I would be surprised if there is no interest. If Matthews opts out or signs a smaller deal they can have $40-50 mil in cap space. Cuban will be active. |
So kind of like how they haven't signed their own RFA Noel? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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