On Brandon Ingram Struggles... B/R & Podcast
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: On Brandon Ingram Struggles... B/R & Podcast

Hey all,

Busy day - here are three links:

At @BleacherReport LA Lakers Need to Downgrade Expectations for 'Uptight' Brandon Ingram http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737792-la-lakers-need-to-downgrade-expectations-for-uptight-brandon-ingram

.@hollywood_hoops Ep 53: Lakers Forward Brandon Ingram Searching to Find His Game w/@JoshMartinNBA https://www.almightyballer.com/hollywood-hoops-ep-53-l-a-lakers-forward-brandon-ingram-searching-to-find-his-game/

At @BleacherReport 'It's Very Risky': 76ers' Max Extension of Joel Embiid Puzzles Some NBA Insiders http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2737857-its-very-risky-sixers-146m-embiid-extension-puzzles-some-nba-insiders

Cheers,

Eric
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

Magic may have ruined this kid
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:01 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


i don't believe so. i think the new FO might have saved him and even Randle.

Giving these guys expectations that were previously missing is not a bad thing.

Same expectations as kuzma/ball are under.

So what's the difference? Time around jim buss and players that had long tenure with Jim?

Hindsight says our last FO didn't develop anything except rookies. These are still people working everyday. Who's honestly improved under the old regime?

you could even say with bigger expectations, maybe Dlo would have been doing something else instead of hanging out in the hotel room with Nick young talking about girls and taping him. hahaha.

Back to BI, if he can't handle the expectations/pressure right now as a rookie, it's over. Trade him. Me? i think this is everyone's "rookie year" aka "welcome to work".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


i don't believe so. i think the new FO might have saved him and even Randle.

Giving these guys expectations that were previously missing is not a bad thing.

Same expectations as kuzma/ball are under.

So what's the difference? Time around jim buss and players that had long tenure with Jim?

Hindsight says our last FO didn't develop anything except rookies. These are still people working everyday. Who's honestly improved under the old regime?

you could even say with bigger expectations, maybe Dlo would have been doing something else instead of hanging out in the hotel room with Nick young talking about girls and taping him. hahaha.

Back to BI, if he can't handle the expectations/pressure right now as a rookie, it's over. Trade him. Me? i think this is everyone's "rookie year" aka "welcome to work".


Comment sounds straight out of your avi
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


i don't believe so. i think the new FO might have saved him and even Randle.

Giving these guys expectations that were previously missing is not a bad thing.

Same expectations as kuzma/ball are under.

So what's the difference? Time around jim buss and players that had long tenure with Jim?

Hindsight says our last FO didn't develop anything except rookies. These are still people working everyday. Who's honestly improved under the old regime?

you could even say with bigger expectations, maybe Dlo would have been doing something else instead of hanging out in the hotel room with Nick young talking about girls and taping him. hahaha.

Back to BI, if he can't handle the expectations/pressure right now as a rookie, it's over. Trade him. Me? i think this is everyone's "rookie year" aka "welcome to work".


High expectations are a good thing, but they need to be the right expectations.

Telling BI they want him to be a leader and play the game the right way, play within the flow of the game, that's fine. But telling him he's the go-to-scorer and will lead the team in ppg was misguided. He clearly cannot do that with any level of efficiency right now
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
One team source acknowledged that expectations may have been set too high for Ingram—that even 14 or 15 points per game seemed optimistic in the short term.

This is how I feel.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

Informative Articles

Being a Laker should have high and lofty expectations

BI has the talent and skills to be a game changer. Mental toughness, intensity and focus is what separates great NBA players to those that have long and successful careers. BI is two years younger than Kuzma - who had little expectations placed on him, which is major in terms of maturity

How long did it take Kwahi to grow into the player he is.

Randle, Nance and Zuboc don't have that expectation

KD's early years had little expectation, scrutiny or coverage where (by neccesity) he was the main man and was allowed to learn from his many mistakes without instant condemnation(s).

Not sure how great BI will be, but he is on a journey to find what kind of player he is. He has learned that going "soft" against an accomplished defensive center is wrong, hopefully next time he will go with mean intentions. He has to learn to have a short memory and ultimate confidence in the work he has put in that provides him the confidence that the next shot will go in


Embiid's contract is totally crazy and hopefully he won't have a career like Sam Bowie or Greg Oden
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:34 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


i don't believe so. i think the new FO might have saved him and even Randle.

Giving these guys expectations that were previously missing is not a bad thing.

Same expectations as kuzma/ball are under.

So what's the difference? Time around jim buss and players that had long tenure with Jim?

Hindsight says our last FO didn't develop anything except rookies. These are still people working everyday. Who's honestly improved under the old regime?

you could even say with bigger expectations, maybe Dlo would have been doing something else instead of hanging out in the hotel room with Nick young talking about girls and taping him. hahaha.

Back to BI, if he can't handle the expectations/pressure right now as a rookie, it's over. Trade him. Me? i think this is everyone's "rookie year" aka "welcome to work".


High expectations are a good thing, but they need to be the right expectations.

Telling BI they want him to be a leader and play the game the right way, play within the flow of the game, that's fine. But telling him he's the go-to-scorer and will lead the team in ppg was misguided. He clearly cannot do that with any level of efficiency right now


I don't necessarily agree. BI was also a #2 pick onto the crappiest laker squad in history.

All the current FO did was express what that means.

I don't know a single parent that says "just try and grad high school to work in starbucks".

I wouldn't tell my #2 pick i expect less from him than a nick young. Look at the 2016-2017 roster and tell me why he shouldn't expect to be those things on that team? Same goes for JR, Ball even kuzma, nance, zubac.

That's what our FO saw when they walked in don't forget. I love the change in JR's physique and the sudden stress in BI. Both of them have what it takes to address their shortcomings immediately. If you really believe different, then post some trade ideas. If you're not thinking either of those, go find Jim buss. lol jk.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


If a comment like that can go as far as ruining a kid, I don't any part of that player. It's not like Magic went like MJ did to Kwame. It's not even close. If anything Ingram is being coddled.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
22 wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Magic may have ruined this kid


i don't believe so. i think the new FO might have saved him and even Randle.

Giving these guys expectations that were previously missing is not a bad thing.

Same expectations as kuzma/ball are under.

So what's the difference? Time around jim buss and players that had long tenure with Jim?

Hindsight says our last FO didn't develop anything except rookies. These are still people working everyday. Who's honestly improved under the old regime?

you could even say with bigger expectations, maybe Dlo would have been doing something else instead of hanging out in the hotel room with Nick young talking about girls and taping him. hahaha.

Back to BI, if he can't handle the expectations/pressure right now as a rookie, it's over. Trade him. Me? i think this is everyone's "rookie year" aka "welcome to work".


High expectations are a good thing, but they need to be the right expectations.

Telling BI they want him to be a leader and play the game the right way, play within the flow of the game, that's fine. But telling him he's the go-to-scorer and will lead the team in ppg was misguided. He clearly cannot do that with any level of efficiency right now


I don't necessarily agree. BI was also a #2 pick onto the crappiest laker squad in history.

All the current FO did was express what that means.

I don't know a single parent that says "just try and grad high school to work in starbucks".

I wouldn't tell my #2 pick i expect less from him than a nick young. Look at the 2016-2017 roster and tell me why he shouldn't expect to be those things on that team? Same goes for JR, Ball even kuzma, nance, zubac.

That's what our FO saw when they walked in don't forget. I love the change in JR's physique and the sudden stress in BI. Both of them have what it takes to address their shortcomings immediately. If you really believe different, then post some trade ideas. If you're not thinking either of those, go find Jim buss. lol jk.


A more accurate analogy would be telling your kid you want them to get good grades and be an engineer when clearly they don’t like math and science, but excel in history and English.

BI can be a great player in the mold of a do it all kind of guy (Kawhi, Paul George, Jimmy Butler). He will likely never be a great go to scorer type guy in the mold of a Kobe or KD.

The expectations can be high, but they still need to be right.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject:

As someone else mentioned in the BI thread, outside of 1 quarter in the last two games, he has been really good.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject:

if magic "ruined" BI then BI never had it to begin with . . . not buying it.

magic put out unrealistic expectations ... didn't help but ruin?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

emplay wrote:
if magic "ruined" BI then BI never had it to begin with . . . not buying it.

magic put out unrealistic expectations ... didn't help but ruin?


Agree. He just needs to play within himself and flow of the game. The over compensate with ISO stuff, ball dominant, etc. is not going to work at this stage of his career.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject:

I think the problem is putting up expectations for BI to be a top scorer when his game/tools/mentality clearly make him look more like an all-arounder with high IQ/glue guy type.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject:

Magic set the wrong goals for Ingram.

Here's to the hope that Luke will set the proper ones for him again.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Magic set the wrong goals for Ingram.

Here's to the hope that Luke will set the proper ones for him again.


And therein is a concern I've been pondering. That Magic needs to learn the boundaries of his position. Being so close to Luke has potential setbacks if that doesn't happen. Luke is going to have to work backwards from Magic's projections with BI's game and mindset. Which wouldn't have been too big of a problem had he not gone agreed and echoed them early. The shaping of their dynamics and inner workings will be interesting to watch.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Magic set the wrong goals for Ingram.

Here's to the hope that Luke will set the proper ones for him again.


And therein is a concern I've been pondering. That Magic needs to learn the boundaries of his position. Being so close to Luke has potential setbacks if that doesn't happen. Luke is going to have to work backwards from Magic's projections with BI's game and mindset. Which wouldn't have been too big of a problem had he not gone agreed and echoed them early. The shaping of their dynamics and inner workings will be interesting to watch.


I think with how the DLO situation panned out, the young players feel that you have to cater to Magic's wishes and ingratiate yourself to him or else you may be shipped out. So in a sense, Magic's word > Luke's word, with the latter theoretically affecting your day to day life.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Magic set the wrong goals for Ingram.

Here's to the hope that Luke will set the proper ones for him again.


And therein is a concern I've been pondering. That Magic needs to learn the boundaries of his position. Being so close to Luke has potential setbacks if that doesn't happen. Luke is going to have to work backwards from Magic's projections with BI's game and mindset. Which wouldn't have been too big of a problem had he not gone agreed and echoed them early. The shaping of their dynamics and inner workings will be interesting to watch.


I think with how the DLO situation panned out, the young players feel that you have to cater to Magic's wishes and ingratiate yourself to him or else you may be shipped out. So in a sense, Magic's word > Luke's word, with the latter theoretically affecting your day to day life.


While I'm sure that's true to a degree, DLo's situation involved more than mere basketball issues, sadly.

What I'd like to see is Luke assert some boldness in regards to tempering expectations when Magic's speech gets hyperbolic.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Gimme_the_rock wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Magic set the wrong goals for Ingram.

Here's to the hope that Luke will set the proper ones for him again.


And therein is a concern I've been pondering. That Magic needs to learn the boundaries of his position. Being so close to Luke has potential setbacks if that doesn't happen. Luke is going to have to work backwards from Magic's projections with BI's game and mindset. Which wouldn't have been too big of a problem had he not gone agreed and echoed them early. The shaping of their dynamics and inner workings will be interesting to watch.


I think with how the DLO situation panned out, the young players feel that you have to cater to Magic's wishes and ingratiate yourself to him or else you may be shipped out. So in a sense, Magic's word > Luke's word, with the latter theoretically affecting your day to day life.


While I'm sure that's true to a degree, DLo's situation involved more than mere basketball issues, sadly.

What I'd like to see is Luke assert some boldness in regards to tempering expectations when Magic's speech gets hyperbolic.


Well, Byron is Magic's bud, and DLO is the polar opposite personality wise as Magic IMO. I think Magic really didn't like DLO (and DLO was obviously a culprit in this).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject:

tonight is the first game that matters...BI going to drop 20+! Swaggy P is leading the league in FG% and is the 5th leading scorer in the NBA.....it can happen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
tonight is the first game that matters...BI going to drop 20+! Swaggy P is leading the league in FG% and is the 5th leading scorer in the NBA.....it can happen


Don't we play Thursday?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
tonight is the first game that matters...BI going to drop 20+! Swaggy P is leading the league in FG% and is the 5th leading scorer in the NBA.....it can happen


Don't we play Thursday?


don't get hung up of the facts man
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject:

The problem is everyone expecting and wanting fast production. The kid is what 20 and 1 month? Yes pressure needs to be put on him because this is the Lakers franchise so of course, expecting him to reach his potential faster than say Giannis (who turns 23 this year) is the floor that everyone has their sights on. Be real from time to time.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
tonight is the first game that matters...BI going to drop 20+! Swaggy P is leading the league in FG% and is the 5th leading scorer in the NBA.....it can happen


Don't we play Thursday?


don't get hung up of the facts man


Well only way he drops 20 tonight is if he's on another team?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject:

HellCrowe wrote:
The problem is everyone expecting and wanting fast production. The kid is what 20 and 1 month? Yes pressure needs to be put on him because this is the Lakers franchise so of course, expecting him to reach his potential faster than say Giannis (who turns 23 this year) is the floor that everyone has their sights on. Be real from time to time.


I mean Tatum is 19, and put up a fairly efficient 14/10/3 last night in his first game. Will not be surprised to see rookies like Jackson and DSJ put up 15+PPG this season....so I get why fans expect more from Ingram than last year.
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