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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Sixers (Embiid and maybe even Simmons) and Wolves (Towns) have guys that have MVP potential, something we don't have yet. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Right now, the 76ers/Wolves have actual all stars. I don't think BI/Lonzo/Kuz are in the all star games at the earliest a few years.
I think Celts/Lakers young cores are comparable, though I like ours better b/c we have more offensively versatile players. |
That is true, but:
1. Wolves are stuck - Butler is already 29 and the team will not beat the Warriors. Towns and Wiggins are not enough. The key is they cannot add any more max player due to cap.
2. 76ers would be the TOP FA magnet (other than location) if not for Embiid's questionable health. If I were a top FA, I would be prefer Lakers over 76ers because there is space for 2 max. 1 max player cancels out Simmons. And the combination of Ball/Bi/Kuz is preferred over the health-challenged Embiid (big man with back/knee issues). Now Lebron may not care, but PG should . |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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cal1piggy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Right now, the 76ers/Wolves have actual all stars. I don't think BI/Lonzo/Kuz are in the all star games at the earliest a few years.
I think Celts/Lakers young cores are comparable, though I like ours better b/c we have more offensively versatile players. |
That is true, but:
1. Wolves are stuck - Butler is already 29 and the team will not beat the Warriors. Towns and Wiggins are not enough. The key is they cannot add any more max player due to cap.
2. 76ers would be the TOP FA magnet (other than location) if not for Embiid's questionable health. If I were a top FA, I would be prefer Lakers over 76ers because there is space for 2 max. 1 max player cancels out Simmons. And the combination of Ball/Bi/Kuz is preferred over the health-challenged Embiid (big man with back/knee issues). Now Lebron may not care, but PG should . |
If you are lamenting the TWolves, well, that's what the Lakers are doing too. They are looking to add a 28 year old PG13 this summer. They already have a bona fide all star in KAT. Wiggins I'm less high on but he compares with some of our young core. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Sixers (Embiid and maybe even Simmons) and Wolves (Towns) have guys that have MVP potential, something we don't have yet. |
From the point of view of a max FA, Wolves are capped out.
76ers can add 1 max in 2018, but there is the issue of Embiid's health.
If Embiid is dependable, then this could be deadly - Simmons-Embiid-Lebron |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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TWolves also actually have 2 all stars while we are hoping to sign 2 all star FAs.
And you're comparing young cores, no? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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LandsbergerRules wrote: | Sixers (Embiid and maybe even Simmons) and Wolves (Towns) have guys that have MVP potential, something we don't have yet. |
I prefer Denver's to ours, I think. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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JeezyXVII Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2014 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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I like our core better. We have 4 really talented players who can play.
Add a star or 2 and were on the same level as the other 3, if not better.
Id say LA and Boston are a bit ahead of Minny & 76ers.
Thibs always ruins his players with his brutal minutes, and 76ers have health issues with Fultz & Embiid |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Right now, the 76ers/Wolves have actual all stars. I don't think BI/Lonzo/Kuz are in the all star games at the earliest a few years.
I think Celts/Lakers young cores are comparable, though I like ours better b/c we have more offensively versatile players. |
That is true, but:
1. Wolves are stuck - Butler is already 29 and the team will not beat the Warriors. Towns and Wiggins are not enough. The key is they cannot add any more max player due to cap.
2. 76ers would be the TOP FA magnet (other than location) if not for Embiid's questionable health. If I were a top FA, I would be prefer Lakers over 76ers because there is space for 2 max. 1 max player cancels out Simmons. And the combination of Ball/Bi/Kuz is preferred over the health-challenged Embiid (big man with back/knee issues). Now Lebron may not care, but PG should . |
If you are lamenting the TWolves, well, that's what the Lakers are doing too. They are looking to add a 28 year old PG13 this summer. They already have a bona fide all star in KAT. Wiggins I'm less high on but he compares with some of our young core. |
PG is 1 year younger than Butler.
And they are capped out from adding another max.
So you are stuck with what you have.
They will be a top 5 team, but they are not beating the Warriors.
If Lakers add PG and Lebron (or kawhi), they will be a much better matchup for Warriors.
Warriors' key support player - Igoudala and Livingston will be 35.
That leaves their core of Curry-Durant- Green-Thompson
Let's say we get Lebron and PG, then PG and Lebron cancel out Durant and Thompson.
Then you have Curry-Green talent vs. Bi-Randle-Kuz-Ball
They will still have the edge, but it would be quite interesting.
And with each year, the edge should shift towards us.
Last edited by cal1piggy on Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Palin Star Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 1813
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Problem with sixers is Embiid not proven health wise and Fultz is weird. Simmons has to develop shooting because hes not like Lebron who is stronger and more athletic.
As for Wolves KAT is great but i dont think hes good as his stats shows. Wiggins will not be a franchise player. |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | TWolves also actually have 2 all stars while we are hoping to sign 2 all star FAs.
And you're comparing young cores, no? |
wolves core is stuck because they cannot add other talent.
i am comparing young cores, but i am taking into account the cap space and support players |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
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We don't have 2 max players so it's a bit premature/fruitless to compare non-young core pieces, while the Wolves factually have 2 all stars. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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With the way our core is developing and winning games I am extremely confident going forward. Heck we might even sniff the 8'th seed! I mean we have been doing all this winning without our best rebounder/defender/assist guy! _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | We don't have 2 max players so it's a bit premature/fruitless to compare non-young core pieces, while the Wolves factually have 2 all stars. |
everything is premature.
but put yourself into the max FA's shoes.
PG options:
1. stay in OKC - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. celtics/wolves - not options due to cap
3. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years
4. lakers - home, better than wolves with just PG, at least as good as celtics with 2 max fa, at least as good as 76ers with just PG
5. rockets - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years with just Harden and then everything else - no Paul, no Lebron
--> PG SHOULD go to Lakers based on winning over next 4 years
Lebron - and he will realize PG SHOULD go to LA
1. stay in Cavs - will not beat Warriors in next 3 years
2. 76ers - would not trust Embiid staying healthy in next 4 years. Also as PG-BI-Ball-Kuz-Randle as least as good as Simmons-Embiid-Saric.
3. celtics/wolves not options due to cap
4. Rockets - Harden-Lebron-and piece not as competitive as PG-Lebron-BI-Ball-Randle-Kuz
5. Lakers as least as competitive as all other options (unless he goes to Warriors as ring chaser). LA life/residence is plus.
Logically, without setbacks and injuries, Lakers should get BOTH PG and Lebron |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?" _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23478
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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when healthy, Embild is the best player out of all the yound players, and Towns/Simmons second, but that could change if BI/Ball develop a consistent shot. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Most fans of rebuilding teams with some recent draft picks usually think higher of their young guys than those that are not fans. We have some solid youth with potential, but we are not on the same level as the 76'ers or TWolves, and we likely will not be able to compete with them based on young cores.....we will have to surpass them through free agency.
76'ers - Most talented young core with Embiid, Simmons and Fultz. They also have solid supporting young core pieces in Covington, Saric and Holmes. Embiid is staring the All Star game and if you look at the coaches/players votes, it is clear Simmons will be an All Star very soon (likely next season). Fultz is still a wild card because he has not played this season.....but everyone saw the massive amount of talent last season.
TWolves - Have slipped to the 2nd best young core since Lavine was traded and Wiggins has not progressed a much as many expected. Still, most observers/fans in the league would consider KAT and Wiggins as superior to players in our young core currently.
We have some young guys that have mostly shown flashes of potential, but unless Kuzma gets back to the way he was playing a month or so ago, we may not have a guy make 1st Team All Rookie for the 3rd season in a row. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23791
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Talent/Ceiling, I would take 76ers and Wolves.
If I’m going with who I think are the championship type players core, I’m going with Lakers and Celtics.
Highest talent doesn’t always win out and I would bet more on Lonzo/BI/Kuz and (hate to say it) Tatum/Brown.
Something with Embiid/KAT/Wiggins just doesn’t seem to fully translate, imo. I could be wrong, but that’s my gut feeling.
Last edited by LakerSD on Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Right now, the 76ers/Wolves have actual all stars. I don't think BI/Lonzo/Kuz are in the all star games at the earliest a few years.
I think Celts/Lakers young cores are comparable, though I like ours better b/c we have more offensively versatile players. |
That's the big difference. Ball, Kuz and Ingram are guys we hope become stars, but who knows?
Embiid is an MVP level player, and Towns is a legitimate all-stars.
Boston has Irving, who is 25. I don't think you can really project any team beyond 5 years, so he's young enough to be as much of a "young core" as anyone in my view. I'll take a 25-year-old proven star over a 21-year-old with potential any day of the week. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
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We have a really nice complementary core for 2 max FAs to join.
76ers present a place where a max FA can join an all star, an all star level player (Simmons), and a really strong supporting cast in Covington, Saric, etc.
From a pure 10 carat vs. 4 2.5 carats type of analysis, the 76ers/Wolves beat us.
But we may have more overall carats b/c we are deeper. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?" |
because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars. |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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why wouldn't you count denver? jokic, harris, and murray are as good as any young players around _________________ substance over style |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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cal1piggy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | But why are we talking about a 28 and 33 year old in a thread that is discussing "Young cores?" |
because part of the value of a young core situation is the ability to attract established superstars. |
To a degree the whole "young core" thing seems artificial.
23-year-old Randle and 22-year-old Hart and Kuza are a "young core" but 25-year-old Kyrie Irving isn't. That seems arbitrary to me.
It also seems weird to consider rookies like Kuz and Hart as a "Young core" on equal footer with a proven all-star like Towns.
Ultimately, I am not sure if free agents really care about "young cores"; they care about the talent will surround them for the next few years.
The "young core" thing seems more like an artifice to give sportswriters something to write about and fans something talk about. |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:29 am Post subject: |
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44TheLogo wrote: | why wouldn't you count denver? jokic, harris, and murray are as good as any young players around |
jokic, harris and murray are all good players.
i put the wolves ahead of them.
not sure harris and murray would be any better than randle, kuz, ball, bi.
they have 2 of those, we have 4.
we can get 2 max fa and they have jokic now and are capped out. |
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chantruong Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009 Posts: 8894 Location: SGV
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
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If we get Lebron and PG that will put a big dent in Philly's plans. There are no other FAs worth getting in 2018. Not sure if Kawahi, Butler or Klay will be available in 2019. They have two potential superstars but I believe they are 1 difference maker FA from championship contention. Eventually they have to pay their guys and cap themselves out. I don't think they can outbid Boston for AD or any other trade. Maybe John Wall becomes available?
Minnesota will be a middle of the pack playoff team for years to come. They got too impatient imo but I can understand that since they haven't been in the playoffs for 14 years.
I like our cap position moving forward, but I wish we could get a true stud player in the draft. Minn and Philly already have theirs.
Philly and Minn have the best young talent but,
Its between us and Boston for championships |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10832
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Embiid
Simmons
Towns
Ingram/Tatum
Ball
Kuzma/Wiggins
Brown |
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