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Assuming a 4 year standard increase deal, no options, how much of a starting offer for JR would you match this July? |
The Max, $25 Mill |
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11% |
[ 19 ] |
$22 Mill |
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1% |
[ 3 ] |
$20 Mill |
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11% |
[ 19 ] |
$18 Mill |
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26% |
[ 45 ] |
$16 Mill |
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28% |
[ 48 ] |
$14 Mill |
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11% |
[ 20 ] |
$12 Mill |
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4% |
[ 7 ] |
Would not match any offer |
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3% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 167 |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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davidse wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | It is blossoming, it is understanding what is required to get better. Look no farther than this year’s rookies to see how clueless they are about physical fitness and what is required for success in the NBA. My guess is that in the next couple of years they will commit to that. |
Randle is in his 4th year.
You can waste your time looking at rookies and convince yourself that working harder = blossoming.
Ridiculous. |
Some people work as hard as they can their entire lives and go nowhere. It's ridiculous to think everyone should innately have the understanding of the appropriate way to work to optimally benefit themselves.
Randle could have shot 2000 shots from half court everyday over the offseason. That's hard work, that's dedication. It also wouldn't have benefited him nearly as much as what he did this year.
Do you know what young people say when they get to meet/work with an allstar/hofer? When they're asked what they took away, what stood out? It was how they prepare. That's something a lot of people need to learn. Work smarter not harder right? |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Laker's Fan wrote: | Ten teams trying to win
Two to three stars who occupy 70-80% of the cap, three to four guys making mid level money ($9-$10 million per) and the other half of the roster making $3 million or less each. Desperately looks to avoid: a contract between the max and the mid level where the player is only marginally better than what you can get for the average salary. Desperately tries to find: a late first rookie scale player who plays at or close to a player on a mid level.
Ten teams trying to profit and Tank
Won't have the star layer and will pilfer assets to help teams who make contract mistakes stay clear of the tax and find space to shuffle their rosters. Will live of of low costs and leaguewide revenues including revenue sharing. Multiple shots at a star with high draft picks which will propel a select few into the top ten group. In the meantime, develops players that fit the needs of the top ten teams for future assets. Desperately looks to avoid: long term contracts that aren't trade assets. Desperately tries to find: top teams in need of their cap space and marginal pieces.
Ten teams in the middle
A couple will be those in process of legitimately moving from the bottom to the top. But more often most will be teams who failed to realize they should be positioned in one of the other two groups. They will tend to overvalue the players they drafted and provide contracts accordingly. They will clog their cap with contracts that fall in the avoid category for the top ten teams. They will generally have drafted poorly or used picks to manage their cap. They may have one star they are looking to appease and get trapped in the idea they are closer than the actually are. They refuse to accept sunk costs.
Where in this construct does Randle go from asset to being overpriced? |
Great post |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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davidse wrote: | MJST wrote: | Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...
Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.
But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got. |
If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.
Well, perhaps not you, but most would... |
Today we have maximum leverage. The day after he signs a 4 year deal, that drops to nil.
If I am his agent, the day after he signs his new deal I have the following conversation:
"Hey Jules, that bully ball thing was pretty cool, but it is likely not great for your back long term. My assignment now is to get you your next contract in 4 years and you are not going to get any younger. I think you need to work on that jumper on the Lakers dime. After all, you do not need to be good at it for another couple years...oh yeah, about you playing the 5 and checking guys who outweigh you by 50 lbs, we'll explain to Luke that is not in the plan either." |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Roon wrote: | davidse wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | It is blossoming, it is understanding what is required to get better. Look no farther than this year’s rookies to see how clueless they are about physical fitness and what is required for success in the NBA. My guess is that in the next couple of years they will commit to that. |
Randle is in his 4th year.
You can waste your time looking at rookies and convince yourself that working harder = blossoming.
Ridiculous. |
Some people work as hard as they can their entire lives and go nowhere. It's ridiculous to think everyone should innately have the understanding of the appropriate way to work to optimally benefit themselves.
Randle could have shot 2000 shots from half court everyday over the offseason. That's hard work, that's dedication. It also wouldn't have benefited him nearly as much as what he did this year.
Do you know what young people say when they get to meet/work with an allstar/hofer? When they're asked what they took away, what stood out? It was how they prepare. That's something a lot of people need to learn. Work smarter not harder right? |
Indeed, work hard at working smart. |
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Joe Pesci Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017 Posts: 3885
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Although I agree with David we here, if only George were coming this summer, I’d be hesitant to sign Randle’s to a deal over 14 mill per.
I think anything over 14-15 mill (per) will be difficult to trade if the Lakers decide to change course later.
Randle is just a difficult fit for most teams. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | davidse wrote: | MJST wrote: | Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...
Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.
But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got. |
If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.
Well, perhaps not you, but most would... |
Today we have maximum leverage. The day after he signs a 4 year deal, that drops to nil.
If I am his agent, the day after he signs his new deal I have the following conversation:
"Hey Jules, that bully ball thing was pretty cool, but it is likely not great for your back long term. My assignment now is to get you your next contract in 4 years and you are not going to get any younger. I think you need to work on that jumper on the Lakers dime. After all, you do not need to be good at it for another couple years...oh yeah, about you playing the 5 and checking guys who outweigh you by 50 lbs, we'll explain to Luke that is not in the plan either." |
Good thing for him, and other NBA players, that you’re not their agent. |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | parsons777 wrote: | davidse wrote: | MJST wrote: | Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...
Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.
But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got. |
If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.
Well, perhaps not you, but most would... |
Today we have maximum leverage. The day after he signs a 4 year deal, that drops to nil.
If I am his agent, the day after he signs his new deal I have the following conversation:
"Hey Jules, that bully ball thing was pretty cool, but it is likely not great for your back long term. My assignment now is to get you your next contract in 4 years and you are not going to get any younger. I think you need to work on that jumper on the Lakers dime. After all, you do not need to be good at it for another couple years...oh yeah, about you playing the 5 and checking guys who outweigh you by 50 lbs, we'll explain to Luke that is not in the plan either." |
Good thing for him, and other NBA players, that you’re not their agent. |
So, let's do this. He will either sign with us or someone else ( obviously ). We'll look at his style of play in December, 2018 and see if "bully ball" is there to the same extent or if it is not. My bet is he chooses a path that is better for him long term, but I guess we will see. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8161
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | davidse wrote: | MJST wrote: | Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...
Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.
But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got. |
If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.
Well, perhaps not you, but most would... |
Today we have maximum leverage. The day after he signs a 4 year deal, that drops to nil.
If I am his agent, the day after he signs his new deal I have the following conversation:
"Hey Jules, that bully ball thing was pretty cool, but it is likely not great for your back long term. My assignment now is to get you your next contract in 4 years and you are not going to get any younger. I think you need to work on that jumper on the Lakers dime. After all, you do not need to be good at it for another couple years...oh yeah, about you playing the 5 and checking guys who outweigh you by 50 lbs, we'll explain to Luke that is not in the plan either." |
Your speculated advice applies to any player signing a new contract. From the vet min player that signs that last contract and coasts on the end of the bench to LBJ that signs his $36- 40m contract over the next couple years and decides he has put in too many mpg over his career and chooses to slack off on defense, settle for the lazy shot and focus on his business opportunities over basketball. Wonder if his agent is having that conversation with him? |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | So, let's do this. He will either sign with us or someone else ( obviously ). We'll look at his style of play in December, 2018 and see if "bully ball" is there to the same extent or if it is not. My bet is he chooses a path that is better for him long term, but I guess we will see. |
Of course he’ll choose a path that is best for him in the long term.
Guess I’m not sure why you think him jacking 3s while his next employer, Lakers or otherwise, pays for it is the better path??
The best path for him, long term, is to keep playing the bully ball, and develop at least a semi-reliable jumper. What was odd about your previous post is the idea a good thing for Julius would be to jack jumpers all day on the Lakers dime.
That would actually be an awful thing for Julius and his next contract. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11877
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Based on the outrageous contracts that mediocre players have been getting the last couple of years, you guys think Randle will not get a $16M/yr offer? I think he gets $20M+/yr from a desperate team and there are a lot of desperate teams out there. It's not a matter of his talents alone that dictate his value. It's the supply and demand in the market that affect his value as well. Why are talking like we're gonna get some really quality players in free agency that we could afford to let someone like JR walk?
I would pay up to 20M for him. |
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Purp 32 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 2154 Location: Inglewood, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dallas will probably max him. They don't have much young talent and can't get top tier free agents. I don't see him returning to LA. |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Purp 32 wrote: | Dallas will probably max him. They don't have much young talent and can't get top tier free agents. I don't see him returning to LA. |
They would need to renounce a lot of their own players, and I think maybe trade some, to get that high. Barnes/Powell/Dirk(?) already play the 4.
I'm hoping they either go for A. Gordon, Clint Capela, or just go all in for the DFT tank. They certainly might offer him a big contract though. Hope not. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14915 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Randle Randle Randle will make it difficult for the FO to say no... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Purp 32 wrote: | Dallas will probably max him. They don't have much young talent and can't get top tier free agents. I don't see him returning to LA. |
That would be amazing bc they have 14m in cap space now. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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PRLakeShow Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 10460
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I've mentioned 18 mill as the key number to keeping Randle and still having space for PG in 2018 and another max in 2019. So I'll go with 18 mill. |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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PRLakeShow wrote: | I've mentioned 18 mill as the key number to keeping Randle and still having space for PG in 2018 and another max in 2019. So I'll go with 18 mill. |
I know you've ran the numbers a lot, let me ask...does that scenario mean we'll be able to keep Jules at 18, offer a max this summer and in 2019, but not two this summer? Is it because the cap is supposed to go up next year? |
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PRLakeShow Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 10460
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | PRLakeShow wrote: | I've mentioned 18 mill as the key number to keeping Randle and still having space for PG in 2018 and another max in 2019. So I'll go with 18 mill. |
I know you've ran the numbers a lot, let me ask...does that scenario mean we'll be able to keep Jules at 18, offer a max this summer and in 2019, but not two this summer? Is it because the cap is supposed to go up next year? |
Oh yeah we can sign two max guys this summer with Randle. Randle's cap hold is only 12ish mill. Deng would have to be traded alongside pick(s) though.
The 18 mill is for Plan B scenarios. So, punting 1 max for 2019.
In my 2019 scenario, Deng goes with a pick as well. At that point, he would be on a one year deal so easier to trade.
Last edited by PRLakeShow on Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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It might matter bc it’s so tight but isn’t his cap hold 12.4m? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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PRLakeShow Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 10460
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | It might matter bc it’s so tight but isn’t his cap hold 12.4m? |
Yeah whoops. Mixed his with IT's for some reason. |
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JamezAmp Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 1788 Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Gotta keep em. Hopefully 16-18 will do it but think it will be more. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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JamezAmp wrote: | Gotta keep em. Hopefully 16-18 will do it but think it will be more. |
I think 15-18. We’ll keep him. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm, maybe we gotta pay the kid. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Purp 32 wrote: | Dallas will probably max him. They don't have much young talent and can't get top tier free agents. I don't see him returning to LA. |
That would be amazing bc they have 14m in cap space now. |
They don't have many players they actually want back. Noel, McRoberts, McDermott off the books. They can offer him 20 and still have 9 million left. |
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AirTupac Star Player
Joined: 04 Feb 2018 Posts: 1234
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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How do I change my vote to 25 mill |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Purp 32 wrote: | Dallas will probably max him. They don't have much young talent and can't get top tier free agents. I don't see him returning to LA. |
That would be amazing bc they have 14m in cap space now. |
They don't have many players they actually want back. Noel, McRoberts, McDermott off the books. They can offer him 20 and still have 9 million left. |
And he has to agree to a deal. Doubt he would pass on a chance for chips with lbj/Pg13 to join Dallas on another rebuild. He would get his money too here. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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