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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: Question for Capologists |
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It is well-known that the Lakers' plan for Summer 2018 is to sign two superstar free agents. The Lakers have spent considerable resources freeing up salary cap space in this effort. Within a couple of days of the start of the free agent period, they should know whether Summer 2018 will be a hit or miss. Lets suppose it is a "miss" in that none of the "super free agents" will come to the Lakers. In this case, I would just like to see the Young Core mature for a year and see whom the Lakers can sign next year. I would really like to see what Hart and Kuzma become in a year.
Question to the Capologists. Can the Lakers use whatever funds that they don't spend in their salary cap this summer in an effort to get rid of Deng? For example, if the Lakers have $16,000,000 of unused salary cap room, can they just offer Deng a one-year $32 million contract (roughly the amount of money that he has left on his contract) and then be done with him by Summer 2019? If the Lakers can't go as high as $32 million how high can they go? How much is reasonable to offer Deng to sign such a deal?
Apologies if this has already been discussed.
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| Annihilator wrote: | It is well-known that the Lakers' plan for Summer 2018 is to sign two superstar free agents. The Lakers have spent considerable resources freeing up salary cap space in this effort. Within a couple of days of the start of the free agent period, they should know whether Summer 2018 will be a hit or miss. Lets suppose it is a "miss" in that none of the "super free agents" will come to the Lakers. In this case, I would just like to see the Young Core mature for a year and see whom the Lakers can sign next year. I would really like to see what Hart and Kuzma become in a year.
Question to the Capologists. Can the Lakers use whatever funds that they don't spend in their salary cap this summer in an effort to get rid of Deng? For example, if the Lakers have $16,000,000 of unused salary cap room, can they just offer Deng a one-year $32 million contract (roughly the amount of money that he has left on his contract) and then be done with him by Summer 2019? If the Lakers can't go as high as $32 million how high can they go? How much is reasonable to offer Deng to sign such a deal?
Apologies if this has already been discussed. |
According to Larry's CBA page, a buyout just converts some salary to unguaranteed status so it disappears when they're waived. You can't add salary. |
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Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| Annihilator wrote: | It is well-known that the Lakers' plan for Summer 2018 is to sign two superstar free agents. The Lakers have spent considerable resources freeing up salary cap space in this effort. Within a couple of days of the start of the free agent period, they should know whether Summer 2018 will be a hit or miss. Lets suppose it is a "miss" in that none of the "super free agents" will come to the Lakers. In this case, I would just like to see the Young Core mature for a year and see whom the Lakers can sign next year. I would really like to see what Hart and Kuzma become in a year.
Question to the Capologists. Can the Lakers use whatever funds that they don't spend in their salary cap this summer in an effort to get rid of Deng? For example, if the Lakers have $16,000,000 of unused salary cap room, can they just offer Deng a one-year $32 million contract (roughly the amount of money that he has left on his contract) and then be done with him by Summer 2019? If the Lakers can't go as high as $32 million how high can they go? How much is reasonable to offer Deng to sign such a deal?
Apologies if this has already been discussed. |
No, only way to terminate/reduce Deng's salary is through a buy out where both the lakers and deng agree to change/eliminate the guaranteed portion of his contract. Theorectically, they could eliminate it to 0 but I don't see why Deng would ever do that.
Further, we can't just buy out Deng and sign him to a new 1 year contract to make up for the money loss. We're barred from signing Deng for a period of one year after a buy out
Deng's salary could be removed by a trade for a player with 1 year left, or non-guarenteed or to a team with cap space to absorb his contract. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| Annihilator wrote: | It is well-known that the Lakers' plan for Summer 2018 is to sign two superstar free agents. The Lakers have spent considerable resources freeing up salary cap space in this effort. Within a couple of days of the start of the free agent period, they should know whether Summer 2018 will be a hit or miss. Lets suppose it is a "miss" in that none of the "super free agents" will come to the Lakers. In this case, I would just like to see the Young Core mature for a year and see whom the Lakers can sign next year. I would really like to see what Hart and Kuzma become in a year.
Question to the Capologists. Can the Lakers use whatever funds that they don't spend in their salary cap this summer in an effort to get rid of Deng? For example, if the Lakers have $16,000,000 of unused salary cap room, can they just offer Deng a one-year $32 million contract (roughly the amount of money that he has left on his contract) and then be done with him by Summer 2019? If the Lakers can't go as high as $32 million how high can they go? How much is reasonable to offer Deng to sign such a deal?
Apologies if this has already been discussed. |
You cannot pay off salary early. And you can't renegotiate the terms of a contract.
All you can do is buy a player out, which means the team and the player mutually agree to give him a lump sum to be rid of the contract. However, the lump sum 4 salary cap reasons is divided over how many years are left in the contract. So if we bought out dang for 30 million dollars say, the buyout would count as 15 million against the cap next year and 15 million against the cap the following year.
So there isn't any easy way to get rid of the obligation to deny. If the Lakers could have done what you are suggesting, they would have paid him off this year as opposed to signing Caldwell-Pope |
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LarryCoon
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Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | According to Larry's CBA page, a buyout just converts some salary to unguaranteed status so it disappears when they're waived. You can't add salary. |
This isn't exactly right. A buyout (actually, any form of waiver) just jettisons any non-guaranteed salary, leaving only what's guaranteed. In Deng's case it's all guaranteed, so a buyout wouldn't accomplish anything.[*]
What is sometimes done in conjunction with a buyout is for teams and players to mutually agree to reduce the guarantee before the waiver. When the player is then waived, the team just owes the amount they mutually agreed to. But this is a mutual-agreement situation -- in exchange for gaining his freedom, the player agrees to cut the team a discount. But there's no motivation for Luol to do this, because he's not itching to sign anywhere.
It's also correct as other posters said that you can't renegotiate a contract to reduce its term or salary (other than the buyout scenario described above). You can sometimes renegotiate to pay the player more, and can sometimes extend to give the contract a longer term, but these don't apply here.[**]
[*] The one thing a waiver/buyout DOES do is invoke the stretch provision. If Deng is waived, he wouldn't be paid his remaining $37 million over two years; it'd be paid over five (two times the number of seasons, plus one). This happens automatically with the paychecks when a player is waived, but not the cap hit. The cap hit is optional -- the team can choose to have the cap hit of $37 million spread over five years as well, reducing their team salary for this summer. This is very, very likely to happen if they don't find a trade for him and succeed in getting two expensive free agents to sign.
[**] Theoretically an extension can be combined with the stretch provision to gain even more cap room, but there's no indication that the league wouldn't simply consider this to be circumvention. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | | [[*] The one thing a waiver/buyout DOES do is invoke the stretch provision. If Deng is waived, he wouldn't be paid his remaining $37 million over two years; it'd be paid over five (two times the number of seasons, plus one). This happens automatically with the paychecks when a player is waived, but not the cap hit. The cap hit is optional -- the team can choose to have the cap hit of $37 million spread over five years as well, reducing their team salary for this summer. This is very, very likely to happen if they don't find a trade for him and succeed in getting two expensive free agents to sign. . |
This is something I've never seen: Is there a deadline for exercising the stretch provision each season or can it be done at any time?
In other words, can we stretch Deng after we sign two max free agents or is there some deadline that might require us to stretch him before we know for sure who we'll get? |
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cyborgspider
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joeblow
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| LC, why would any player agree to be stretched if all it does is pay him the same amount in smaller sums over five years (in Deng's case) instead of the large lump sum in two years? |
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cyborgspider
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | LC, why would any player agree to be stretched if all it does is pay him the same amount in smaller sums over five years (in Deng's case) instead of the large lump sum in two years? |
They don't have to agree to be stretched. It's entirely at the team's discretion. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| It is in the CBA, so the players collectively have already agreed to accept the stretching of future seasons of a waived contract. |
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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| cyborgspider wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | LC, why would any player agree to be stretched if all it does is pay him the same amount in smaller sums over five years (in Deng's case) instead of the large lump sum in two years? |
They don't have to agree to be stretched. It's entirely at the team's discretion. |
| Quote: |
(ii) If, as of the date of the player’s separation from service, the
aggregate Base Compensation owed to the player pursuant
to Exhibit 2 of the Contract exceeds two hundred fifty
thousand dollars ($250,000), such amount shall be paid as
follows:
(x) The Base Compensation, if any, owed to the player
pursuant to Exhibit 2 of the Contract with respect
to the “current season” (as defined below) at the
time when the request for waivers on the player is
made shall be paid in accordance with the payment
schedule set forth in the Contract. Each
installment shall equal the amount of Base
Compensation that was due per pay period
immediately before the player’s separation until the
aggregate amount of the remaining Base
Compensation owed to the player pursuant to
Exhibit 2 of the Contract with respect to the
current season is paid in full. For purposes of this
subparagraph 2 only, the “current season” means
the period from September 1 through June 30.
The remaining Base Compensation, if any, owed to
the player pursuant to Exhibit 2 of the Contract
shall be aggregated and paid in equal amounts per
year over a period equal to twice the number of
NBA Seasons (including any Season covered by a
Player Option Year) remaining on this Contract
following the date upon which the request for
waivers occurred, plus one NBA Season. For this
purpose, if the request for waivers is made during
the period from September 1 through June 30, the
number of NBA Seasons remaining on this
Contract shall not include the current season (as
defined in subparagraph (x) above). The
rescheduled payments described above shall be paid
over the applicable number of NBA Seasons in
equal semi-monthly installments on the pay dates
prescribed
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! |
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LarryCoon
Site Staff
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 11265
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Question for Capologists |
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| activeverb wrote: | This is something I've never seen: Is there a deadline for exercising the stretch provision each season or can it be done at any time?
In other words, can we stretch Deng after we sign two max free agents or is there some deadline that might require us to stretch him before we know for sure who we'll get? |
When they waive the player they have to specify whether they are stretching the cap hit.
The only trigger date is 9/1 -- on that date the current year is locked-in (prevents teams from waiving & stretching during the season) and any stretch only affects subsequent seasons. |
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LarryCoon
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Posts: 11265
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| joeblow wrote: | | LC, why would any player agree to be stretched if all it does is pay him the same amount in smaller sums over five years (in Deng's case) instead of the large lump sum in two years? |
There's no agreement required from the player. The paycheck stretch is automatic. |
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