OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject:

This is what I think of with Brandon Ingram in his element.
https://youtu.be/bVGZZD895QQ?t=54s

21 points vs Atl.

The active hands and passing stand out. I just don't see BI being this dominant scorer, but prime BI doing things in that vid? Absolutely.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Is it weird that I don't think that's his best game? I loved the stuff from the late 3rd quarter and on. Really loved the change of pace on Zaza in the 1st half, but super lazy closeouts by Durant early.

Durant, Draymond, Bell, Thompson, Next... ?

Especially loved how he lowered his shoulder and shortened his dribble on a change of pace dribble at 3:47. Got by Klay. I mean, he lost half his height and the ball-height was lower than the knee. Thompson couldn't do anything on that.


1) IMO, that game against the Warriors really was Ingram in his element, and quite possibly a glimpse of prime Ingram. When you look at the attention he was attracting from a historically good defense, how can one not be excited of the future possibilities? He was literally Lebron'ing them-

https://i.imgur.com/uSJYp97.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hYQNLF2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fRpmVpN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0A1FRkk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jecN77o.jpg

I tweeted those pictures to Joey Ramirez and he mentioned Luke making it clear to Ingram that defenses were overcommitting to him this way and leaving shooters wide open. I think it's one of the reasons BI thrived at the point forward position later on.

2) When he doesn't telegraph or preordain his moves, I don't think defenses can neutralize him. He has the drive game to force numerous defenders to collapse on him, but needs to establish a more fluid outside/perimeter game to get defenders away from the paint area.

3) Luke talked about angry Ingram being on a different level, so I think much of the above has to do with his mentality and confidence level. When he lets the game come to him, it's beautiful. When he doesn't, defenses know what he's going to do and how he's going to do it.


Was Joey confused when you called him Randon Bingram, or whatever the is you do with Lakers names.... 😂
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOmkkyqZZnI

Ingram handled Brown in their first match up of the season, why can't Ingram be doing what Brown's doing in the playoffs? Yeah Brown has gotten alot better but Ingram was putting up 19/6/5 on great percentages the month before he got injured. He wouldn't put up those numbers but if you replace Brown with Ingram under Brad Steven's system the Celtics wouldn't be any worse
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject:

Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject:

https://clutchpoints.com/lakers-news-la-trainer-reveals-what-brandon-ingram-has-been-working-on/

Some insight into Ingram's offseason work here
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.
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NBALakerLegends
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


February Ingram is definitely better than both. That version of BI would be scary. He was filling it up with crazy percentages and getting others involved while playing good defense. Brown and Tatum don't have the ability to play make for others.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


I agree as well. I can't wait to see how good he will be when he is 21!
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

NBALakerLegends wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


February Ingram is definitely better than both. That version of BI would be scary. He was filling it up with crazy percentages and getting others involved while playing good defense. Brown and Tatum don't have the ability to play make for others.


The fact we are pointing to a specific month for BI shows he's not there now.

Doesn't mean he can't be better long-term.

Right now, Brown/Tatum are more ready b/c their bodies are. BI will get there.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


I'm open to the idea that Ingram will end up better as he gets more effective at leveraging his physical gifts, but this is where you guys lose me. I don't know how you can watch Jayson Tatum in particular and think that Ingram is currently the better player.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject:

Out of Brown/Tatum/Ingram, BI is the worst defender and worst catch and shoot player.

Right now he's probably not as good as either (Brown is more debatable then Tatum), but he's the best playmaker, ball handler and point forward IMO. That's why I like his long term potential more then the other two (fully loaded with bias obviously) because when you look at the superstar wings, the playmaking/point forward ability is what sets them apart on the offensive end.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
NBALakerLegends wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


February Ingram is definitely better than both. That version of BI would be scary. He was filling it up with crazy percentages and getting others involved while playing good defense. Brown and Tatum don't have the ability to play make for others.


The fact we are pointing to a specific month for BI shows he's not there now.

Doesn't mean he can't be better long-term.

Right now, Brown/Tatum are more ready b/c their bodies are. BI will get there.


What if Ingram doesn't get injured on March 1st, he was showing no signs of slowing down. What if he carries that type of play through March up to the last game of the season in April.

He probably finishes the season averaging 17/5/4.5 then all of a sudden it's a totally different argument.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:
What if Ingram doesn't get injured on March 1st, he was showing no signs of slowing down. What if he carries that type of play through March up to the last game of the season in April.

He probably finishes the season averaging 17/5/4.5 then all of a sudden it's a totally different argument.


Tatum is the leading playoff scorer (18.1 ppg) on a team that's 2 games away from making the NBA Finals. And Brown (17.8) is second.
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Last edited by GoldenThroat on Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
NBALakerLegends wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


February Ingram is definitely better than both. That version of BI would be scary. He was filling it up with crazy percentages and getting others involved while playing good defense. Brown and Tatum don't have the ability to play make for others.


The fact we are pointing to a specific month for BI shows he's not there now.

Doesn't mean he can't be better long-term.

Right now, Brown/Tatum are more ready b/c their bodies are. BI will get there.


What if Ingram doesn't get injured on March 1st, he was showing no signs of slowing down. What if he carries that type of play through March up to the last game of the season in April.

He probably finishes the season averaging 17/5/4.5 then all of a sudden it's a totally different argument.


But we're talking in hypotheticals while Brown/Tatum are playing well in the playoffs. BI's physical development is so behind them that I can entertain the argument that in 2-3 years BI may be the best of the trio.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject:

He clearly out shined both of them while they were on the court together.. and it was pretty clear he was the better player.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


I'm saying it. He's a better all around player than both.


I'm open to the idea that Ingram will end up better as he gets more effective at leveraging his physical gifts, but this is where you guys lose me. I don't know how you can watch Jayson Tatum in particular and think that Ingram is currently the better player.


Regular Season Per 36 Min.
Ingram: 17.3 PPG (53.6% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 4.2 APG
Tatum: 16.4 PPG (58.6% TS%), 5.9 RPG, 1.9 APG

These two guys are only 5 months apart in age, yet I'd say that Ingram is a better defender and, statistically, a better all around player. Tatum is a better scorer (and shooter) at this point, but I do not believe that Tatum can orchestrate an offense or set up his teammates the way BI can. If we're talking about the future, BI's length and physical attributes definitely gives him advantage, especially because Tatum is more physically mature while BI's body still needs time. Keep in mind as well that Tatum played on a better team with arguably better talent around him too, thus had less pressure than Ingram coming into the season and less defensive attention than Ingram as well - all of which, at least to me, somewhat explains why Tatum's advance stats are better than BI's (although Tatum's 3pt stroke certainly helps that a lot).

I just think there is some recency bias here. Up until the playoffs, my statement would have not been so disputed. Now that we've had a month of no Ingram and that Tatum is the last rookie standing, he looks a lot more shiny than everyone else. To illustrate this point, people are even talking about Tatum as rookie of the year, when no one thought of him as that before the playoffs started (it was obviously a two man race between Mitchell and Simmons).

Playoffs Per 36 Min.
Tatum: 18.5 PPG (56.6 TS%), 4.6 RPG, 3.2 APG

Those are nice numbers, but, again, I don't give Tatum any credit over BI simply because his team has continued to move forward in the playoffs and, as a result, he has had the chance to prove himself there (while BI hasn't). While I will give Tatum credit for not wilting under the pressure, I also haven't seen him take over or anything either. He's given Boston a scoring boost and its nice to see his assists go up, but they win because of D and timely shooting from a number of players (including Tatum), not Tatum or any other one player just takes over.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
He clearly out shined both of them while they were on the court together.. and it was pretty clear he was the better player.


I'd argue both Kuzma and Ingram were better regular season players than Tatum. Tatum has the luxury of being on a better team, which made things easier for him as compared to Ingram/Kuzma, yet, statistically, they are all in the same boat which some advantages to one player or the other. Of course, in the long run, Tatum should be better than Kuzma due to the age difference, but, again, we're just talking this season.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:

1) Per 36 numbers are going to favor a guy on a team that plays at the 2nd fastest pace in the NBA as opposed to the 22nd fastest pace. And Tatum's numbers are still better despite that.

2) You don't give any credit for being the leading scorer on a team that's on the verge of the NBA Finals? Really?

3) I think Tatum's a better defender than Ingram.

4) Their one-number analytics aren't even close.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

Analytics and numbers aside.. When they were on the court together Ingram was clearly the better player. And it was pretty obvious.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Ingram is better than Brown. He is also better than Tatum.


I'm not sure you can say that as of today.

In 2-3 years? Still to be determined.


Agree, Tatum and Brown are excelling on the biggest stage, the playoffs. Ingram needs to develop his body to be more NBA ready.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
What if Ingram doesn't get injured on March 1st, he was showing no signs of slowing down. What if he carries that type of play through March up to the last game of the season in April.

He probably finishes the season averaging 17/5/4.5 then all of a sudden it's a totally different argument.


Tatum is the leading playoff scorer (18.1 ppg) on a team that's 2 games away from making the NBA Finals. And Brown (17.8) is second.


That is why I was excited about Tatum, I see him as a top scorer going forward.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
He clearly out shined both of them while they were on the court together.. and it was pretty clear he was the better player.


I'd argue both Kuzma and Ingram were better regular season players than Tatum. Tatum has the luxury of being on a better team, which made things easier for him as compared to Ingram/Kuzma, yet, statistically, they are all in the same boat which some advantages to one player or the other. Of course, in the long run, Tatum should be better than Kuzma due to the age difference, but, again, we're just talking this season.


Agreed, at this stage of Tatum's career I don't see him orchestrating an offense. I'd give the edge to Tatum as a defender over Kuz even though that could change. Outside of shooting there is no clear edge I'd give Tatum/Brown over Ingram. Ingram separates himself from those guys in the playmaking department in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

^Tatum isn't even that far behind Ingram as a playmaker. It's just not really his role. Horford and Rozier do a solid job of that for him already. Brown and Tatum just need to finish up the plays.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

The big difference IMO, is that Tatum currently has an NBA body. I think we'll be looking at BI differently once his body gets to Tatum's proportions.
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