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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Fracture wrote: | Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke. |
What are Luke's better options here?
I mean, I agree with you but it's not like he's got a plethora of options and he's being stubborn. Zubac has been terrible. Moe isn't ready and even when he does he's only a rookie. That leaves Beasley, LeBron, and Kuzma. Seems like LeBron is going to be the PF with maybe a few mins at C against certain teams.
So, who should Luke turn to? Magic and Rob need to find a way to get another guy like McGee.
Beasley money should have gone to someone like Ed Davis or Brook Lopez. But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins. |
This is bad rationale. Experimenting with a second year player who had a successful rookie year can mess up his game. |
It’s the only option unless you wanna give him LeBron or Ingram’s PT. 2 superior players(one far far superior). |
If playing Kuzma at center is truly the only option, then we might have to seriously considering trading Kuzma
Kuzma's trade value right now is super high. Might get you a lotto pick.
Kuzma's value as a center to us might be really low. Also, factor in that we might be getting Kawhi next year and there might not be a spot for him on this team at his preferred forward spots.
If he struggles this year with us at center, that can only hurt his trade value. |
I hear you but let’s not rush into it. I never liked the Kuzma at center idea and like it even less after seeing it but we’ve played one of the better 1-2 center punches in the league. We’re designed for the playoffs and in the playoffs, the Warriors generally play Draymond at center while the Rockets consistently played a 3 guard/2 wing lineup. I’m very skeptical but trying to keep an open mind... for now. Come regular season LeBron may be guarding 5s in that lineup and they just don’t wanna do that in the preseason. Right now, we should wait and see. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Fracture wrote: | Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke. |
What are Luke's better options here?
I mean, I agree with you but it's not like he's got a plethora of options and he's being stubborn. Zubac has been terrible. Moe isn't ready and even when he does he's only a rookie. That leaves Beasley, LeBron, and Kuzma. Seems like LeBron is going to be the PF with maybe a few mins at C against certain teams.
So, who should Luke turn to? Magic and Rob need to find a way to get another guy like McGee.
Beasley money should have gone to someone like Ed Davis or Brook Lopez. But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins. |
This is bad rationale. Experimenting with a second year player who had a successful rookie year can mess up his game. |
It’s the only option unless you wanna give him LeBron or Ingram’s PT. 2 superior players(one far far superior). |
If playing Kuzma at center is truly the only option, then we might have to seriously considering trading Kuzma
Kuzma's trade value right now is super high. Might get you a lotto pick.
Kuzma's value as a center to us might be really low. Also, factor in that we might be getting Kawhi next year and there might not be a spot for him on this team at his preferred forward spots.
If he struggles this year with us at center, that can only hurt his trade value. |
That's my thinking, but it's hard to find a comparable talent target who won't screw up the Lakers cap next summer. They'd have to wait to pull the trigger until next year. _________________ Under New Management |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I think he should be playing more 3 not more 5. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I have no doubt Kuz will find his way and his role with this team. We had three really good power forwards last season, but two have been shown the door and one is out of place because of Lebron. Kuz will adjust though. And they’ll be many games were Kuz will play the 4 due to Lebron either not playing or playing less minutes. You can tell he wants to be Draymond at the 5, but the question is, can he? Will his court vision and his defense ever catch up to his offense? |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | I think he should be playing more 3 not more 5. |
_________________ Under New Management |
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NotHype Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jul 2018 Posts: 376
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Funkbot wrote: | I think he should be playing more 3 not more 5. |
That’s our deepest position unfortunately |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: |
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NotHype wrote: | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | I think he should be playing more 3 not more 5. |
That’s our deepest position unfortunately |
Yep. I don’t doubt his growth at all this offseason but he has a much different task and usage this season compared to last.
I predict a slow start until the rotation stabilizes
Lotta wingz
Props to Luke for supporting him last night postgame _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16170
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | I have no doubt Kuz will find his way and his role with this team. We had three really good power forwards last season, but two have been shown the door and one is out of place because of Lebron. Kuz will adjust though. And they’ll be many games were Kuz will play the 4 due to Lebron either not playing or playing less minutes. You can tell he wants to be Draymond at the 5, but the question is, can he? Will his court vision and his defense ever catch up to his offense? |
Well, hopefully they don’t throw him anymore curveballs moving forward.
I wonder if they let him know during the offseason or just sprung it on him.
Maybe when they signed LeBron, they gave him a heads up to start learning/training for the center position.
Hopefully that’s the case. If not, then he’s been training all offseason to play the 3/4 and now they’re like hey, let’s try you as a 5....
And this isn’t the first young player they treated this way. They treated Julius Randle that way too
Maybe it’s not a good thing that Luke came from GS because now he thinks every 4 can be a small ball 5. |
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textbook Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2015 Posts: 2183
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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This Kuzma experiment feels a lot like the whole starting Nance ahead of Randle last season. I don't think it's going to work. |
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ShowtimeReturns Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1065
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | I have no doubt Kuz will find his way and his role with this team. We had three really good power forwards last season, but two have been shown the door and one is out of place because of Lebron. Kuz will adjust though. And they’ll be many games were Kuz will play the 4 due to Lebron either not playing or playing less minutes. You can tell he wants to be Draymond at the 5, but the question is, can he? Will his court vision and his defense ever catch up to his offense? |
Well, hopefully they don’t throw him anymore curveballs moving forward.
I wonder if they let him know during the offseason or just sprung it on him.
Maybe when they signed LeBron, they gave him a heads up to start learning/training for the center position.
Hopefully that’s the case. If not, then he’s been training all offseason to play the 3/4 and now they’re like hey, let’s try you as a 5....
And this isn’t the first young player they treated this way. They treated Julius Randle that way too
Maybe it’s not a good thing that Luke came from GS because now he thinks every 4 can be a small ball 5. |
Kuzma will never be Draymond Green its a mistake and I hope they don't ruin him In hindsight They should have resigned Randle or at least Lopez I like our front office overall but they were wrong on this one |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39601
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma out here getting snitched on for taking money in college |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | Kuzma out here getting snitched on for taking money in college |
Saw that. I don’t blame him if he did. |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16170
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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ShowtimeReturns wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | I have no doubt Kuz will find his way and his role with this team. We had three really good power forwards last season, but two have been shown the door and one is out of place because of Lebron. Kuz will adjust though. And they’ll be many games were Kuz will play the 4 due to Lebron either not playing or playing less minutes. You can tell he wants to be Draymond at the 5, but the question is, can he? Will his court vision and his defense ever catch up to his offense? |
Well, hopefully they don’t throw him anymore curveballs moving forward.
I wonder if they let him know during the offseason or just sprung it on him.
Maybe when they signed LeBron, they gave him a heads up to start learning/training for the center position.
Hopefully that’s the case. If not, then he’s been training all offseason to play the 3/4 and now they’re like hey, let’s try you as a 5....
And this isn’t the first young player they treated this way. They treated Julius Randle that way too
Maybe it’s not a good thing that Luke came from GS because now he thinks every 4 can be a small ball 5. |
Kuzma will never be Draymond Green its a mistake and I hope they don't ruin him In hindsight They should have resigned Randle or at least Lopez I like our front office overall but they were wrong on this one |
I don't understand the logic of your train of thought.
If we can't find enough minutes for him at the forward spots so we're trying him at center
How does it help Kuzma to have re-signed Randle or Lopez?
Seems that would create even less minutes for him. I thought we were trying to find more minutes for him, not less? |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16170
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | defense wrote: | Kuzma out here getting snitched on for taking money in college |
Saw that. I don’t blame him if he did. |
That's bs. He needed that money to help the people of Flint get drinkable water. He even said so. He said, if I had more money, I'd help out Flint residents.... |
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JeezyXVII Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2014 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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He actually looked more comfy @ the 4 aslong side McGee at the 5.
We get killed on the glass vs taller opponents with Kuz @ the 5. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10828
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Fracture wrote: | Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke. |
What are Luke's better options here?
I mean, I agree with you but it's not like he's got a plethora of options and he's being stubborn. Zubac has been terrible. Moe isn't ready and even when he does he's only a rookie. That leaves Beasley, LeBron, and Kuzma. Seems like LeBron is going to be the PF with maybe a few mins at C against certain teams.
So, who should Luke turn to? Magic and Rob need to find a way to get another guy like McGee.
Beasley money should have gone to someone like Ed Davis or Brook Lopez. But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins. |
This is bad rationale. Experimenting with a second year player who had a successful rookie year can mess up his game. |
I did say I agree that Kuz should not be playing the 5... given the choice, I'd say never ever at but as others pointed out, where else to do we find mins for him as our current rotations are more or less defined? Hell, that's probably not even the hardest part.
Trading him would be foolish IMO. Just need to get a good back up C. Maybe the waiver wire is kind to us and we end up with Tyson or whomever. Maybe there is a KCP deal for a big down the road, but even if you don't give Kuz the mins, who are you going to give them too? Zu? LeBron?
I mean, the one option that maybe we should talk about to get Kuz and BI adequate mins, is to run this: McGee/Kuzma/LeBron/BI/Lonzo with Rondo/Hart/KCP/Lance/Beasley off the bench but we still have the same size issue (and more of it).
So that leads back to my question: not only where does Kuz find his mins but even if we find him some, who is playing C that is a better option and Luke is trying out during pre-season.
Like I said (thing in another thread), our FO's biggest blunder was not getting another big who could meaningful mins the style we want to play. Lopez was there for us. Ed Davis, while signing on day 1, took a one year deal.
But Luke, again, doesn't have any much better options so right now it's trial and error and matching up against Jokic is probably not a great barometer of potential success in that role-- he's one big boy who knows how to use his size and skill. |
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Lakesh0wtime Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016 Posts: 5367
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5393
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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kuz will be fine playing the 5 He just needs to adjust defensively. Offensively he’ll be fine whereever they put him. I dont think he’s struggling offensively because he’s at the 5, I think they are just learning the offense and how to play together. At the end of the day we all know kuz will get buckets. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lakesh0wtime wrote: | still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI |
I think the timeline works out in our favor. Kuz won’t need a contact until Lebron’s on his way out, or his role is a bit diminishing, while Kuz’ role isn’t increasing. Fwiw I still think Bron will be a top 12 player year 4 |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26409
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:30 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Kuzma should never play the 5 again. |
He didn’t look good, but let’s give it a chance. He played against possibly the best center in the league. He may be able to hold his own vs a lesser center. The position has changed so much the last couple of years. |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16170
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:51 am Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Fracture wrote: | Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke. |
What are Luke's better options here?
I mean, I agree with you but it's not like he's got a plethora of options and he's being stubborn. Zubac has been terrible. Moe isn't ready and even when he does he's only a rookie. That leaves Beasley, LeBron, and Kuzma. Seems like LeBron is going to be the PF with maybe a few mins at C against certain teams.
So, who should Luke turn to? Magic and Rob need to find a way to get another guy like McGee.
Beasley money should have gone to someone like Ed Davis or Brook Lopez. But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins. |
This is bad rationale. Experimenting with a second year player who had a successful rookie year can mess up his game. |
I did say I agree that Kuz should not be playing the 5... given the choice, I'd say never ever at but as others pointed out, where else to do we find mins for him as our current rotations are more or less defined? Hell, that's probably not even the hardest part.
Trading him would be foolish IMO. Just need to get a good back up C. Maybe the waiver wire is kind to us and we end up with Tyson or whomever. Maybe there is a KCP deal for a big down the road, but even if you don't give Kuz the mins, who are you going to give them too? Zu? LeBron?
I mean, the one option that maybe we should talk about to get Kuz and BI adequate mins, is to run this: McGee/Kuzma/LeBron/BI/Lonzo with Rondo/Hart/KCP/Lance/Beasley off the bench but we still have the same size issue (and more of it).
So that leads back to my question: not only where does Kuz find his mins but even if we find him some, who is playing C that is a better option and Luke is trying out during pre-season.
Like I said (thing in another thread), our FO's biggest blunder was not getting another big who could meaningful mins the style we want to play. Lopez was there for us. Ed Davis, while signing on day 1, took a one year deal.
But Luke, again, doesn't have any much better options so right now it's trial and error and matching up against Jokic is probably not a great barometer of potential success in that role-- he's one big boy who knows how to use his size and skill. |
Yeah, something doesn't add up.
1) Problem: Not enough minutes for Kuzma at the forward spots (because of LeBron and Ingram)
2) Possible solution: Play him at center
3) Problem: He shouldn't be playing center, we should have signed a real center like Brook Lopez
4) Possible solution: trade him while his value is still high?
5) Problem: It'd be foolish to trade him.
6) Possible solution: ok, play him at center then.
7) Problem: seems like we have no other choice, but I still don't like it... Maybe we can pick up a center on waivers... , but then, we still have the issue of not having any minutes for him at the forward spot. But, we also can't trade him.... Seems like there's no solution
8) Possible solution: well, I guess he won't be THAT bad at center. As long as its not BIG centers... and, he can always score. Actually, now that I've convinced myself, I think it's a good move. Problem solved!
It's like going in circles just to come back to the same spot.
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:58 am; edited 3 times in total |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:52 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Kuzma should never play the 5 again. |
He should be fine against small 5s. Jokic is massive and has post skills. Basically Kuz should never matchup vs starting 5s, yea. |
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ShowtimeReturns Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1065
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:49 am Post subject: |
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LongBeachPoly wrote: | ShowtimeReturns wrote: | LongBeachPoly wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | I have no doubt Kuz will find his way and his role with this team. We had three really good power forwards last season, but two have been shown the door and one is out of place because of Lebron. Kuz will adjust though. And they’ll be many games were Kuz will play the 4 due to Lebron either not playing or playing less minutes. You can tell he wants to be Draymond at the 5, but the question is, can he? Will his court vision and his defense ever catch up to his offense? |
Well, hopefully they don’t throw him anymore curveballs moving forward.
I wonder if they let him know during the offseason or just sprung it on him.
Maybe when they signed LeBron, they gave him a heads up to start learning/training for the center position.
Hopefully that’s the case. If not, then he’s been training all offseason to play the 3/4 and now they’re like hey, let’s try you as a 5....
And this isn’t the first young player they treated this way. They treated Julius Randle that way too
Maybe it’s not a good thing that Luke came from GS because now he thinks every 4 can be a small ball 5. |
Kuzma will never be Draymond Green its a mistake and I hope they don't ruin him In hindsight They should have resigned Randle or at least Lopez I like our front office overall but they were wrong on this one |
I don't understand the logic of your train of thought.
If we can't find enough minutes for him at the forward spots so we're trying him at center
How does it help Kuzma to have re-signed Randle or Lopez?
Seems that would create even less minutes for him. I thought we were trying to find more minutes for him, not less? |
Your right there is a logjam at forward and only one reliable center Javale. Brook could have been resigned easily he wanted to be here,Kuzma would play his normal position By bringing in Lance and Beasley it created this situation where Kuzma is playing center Look I hope I'm wrong and Kuz turns out to play decent at center but I don't see it |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3190
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:59 am Post subject: |
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KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | MJST wrote: | Kuzma should never play the 5 again. |
He should be fine against small 5s. Jokic is massive and has post skills. Basically Kuz should never matchup vs starting 5s, yea. |
Small 5s like who? _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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