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MickMgl Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 1987
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Steve007 wrote: | MickMgl wrote: | Steve007 wrote: | MickMgl wrote: | Steve007 wrote: | We finally got a break. But now Puig is up. (bleep). |
That's not a bad thing. It's just not a guarantee of success, either. But Puig is one of the team's better clutch hitters. |
I don’t like his recent at-bats and body language and don’t think he is clutch. He hit .148 in the World Series with zero walks. |
And Turner hit .160 in the World Series. And Taylor .222. A series earlier, all three should have been chosen co-MVPs.
Puig hit .311 in "close and late" situations this season. He hit .341 in "high leverage" situations. (Joc .063) |
Turner and Taylor also had some walks. Puig had zero. Puig’s on base percentage was .179. Turner’s was .323 and Taylor’s was .344. So even when they weren’t hitting they still occasionally found ways to get on base. That’s why I was more frustrated with Puig. |
Turner's OPS of .683 would suggest he wasn't getting it done. Puig didn't draw a walk, he also didn't strike out much, as he had one of the lower K rates on the team, including that series. A BABIP of .100 usually points to a run of bad luck. He also homered as much in the WS as Taylor and Turner combined, and both of his homers WERE in clutch situations.
But it seems that your best example of Puig not being clutch is to ignore when he was clutch and zero in on a series in which almost nobody played well.
Quote: | Puig hit .311 in "close and late" situations this season. He hit .341 in "high leverage" situations. |
And Pederson hit .333 with 3 home runs and 2 walks in that World Series. In 6 World Series games Pederson hit as many home runs as Puig has hit in 48 postseason games. [/quote]
No doubt, Pederson is more of a HR hitter than Puig, IMO. That, and striking out, is pretty much what he does. (Walks help, Ks hurt) But it's kind of misleading to compare a platoon player with somebody who was in against every pitcher. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38822
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38822
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Shalashaska wrote: | Tomorrow is a must win. Hill will probably (hopefully) give us a good 4-5 innings max. But we need to snap out of our slumber and get early some offense tomorrow. Milwaukee has essentially dominated us (6-1 going into the 8th in G1, 3-0 in the 7th G2, and 4-0 after 7 tonight). Give him a cushion to work with and it changes the complexion of the game.
We cant keep playing from multiple-run deficits like that, especially with an anemic offense like this.
What's most maddening is seeing a guy like Aracia (three HRs on the whole season) hit two in this series (that, combined with that relief pitcher hitting a HR in game 1). Randomness of post-season baseball can be hair pulling at times.
This may be the last hurrah for this bunch - have to find a way to pull this series out.
Good decision to sit Grandal. He is horrendous so far and its in his head - on both sides - with the passed balls and 0-9 ABs and 13 men left on base with RISP. Cringe-inducing numbers. |
I don't think they need to blow it up but they probably need to make a couple of tweaks here and there. For one they need some hitters, just not guys who want to swing for the fences. Postseason baseball is about advancing the runners and scoring. What you end up with this team is feast or famine and post season pitching is way too good for that. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30733
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
Garbage. _________________ KOBE |
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Steve007 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 13234
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:46 am Post subject: |
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MickMgl wrote: |
Turner's OPS of .683 would suggest he wasn't getting it done. Puig didn't draw a walk, he also didn't strike out much, as he had one of the lower K rates on the team, including that series. A BABIP of .100 usually points to a run of bad luck. He also homered as much in the WS as Taylor and Turner combined, and both of his homers WERE in clutch situations.
But it seems that your best example of Puig not being clutch is to ignore when he was clutch and zero in on a series in which almost nobody played well.
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As I mentioned before, Puig has 3 home runs and 15 RBI’s in 49 postseason games. I think he is capable of more than that. And I think that is a more optimistic viewpoint than the viewpoint that he has been clutch in the playoffs. I don’t assume that at age 27 he will stop learning and stop maturing. Maybe his performance will improve in the postseason.
I’m not ignoring when he was clutch. I’ll give him credit for that. But you keep making the assumption that being clutch in the regular season shows someone is clutch in the postseason. I’m skeptical of that assumption. Was Peyton Manning a clutch player because he was clutch in the regular season? Seems like I kept hearing that he was a choker over and over again. If you show me numbers that show Kershaw is clutch in the regular season, does that mean he is clutch in October? Should we assume that players perform the same in June as they do in October?
I think the performance of other players is irrelevant. Puig should be judged on how he performed, not on how an injured Justin Turner performed. When I criticize Grandal I don’t look to see how other players performed before I form an opinion. And as for Turner, if you look at his entire postseason career it’s clear that he has not underperformed. |
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Steve007 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 13234
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:56 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
Understandable. It was an extremely frustrating game and Grandal has been the most frustrating player in the series by far.
In general I think it’s better for fans to show more positivity and try to motivate a player. But Grandal had already struck out in his last at-bat and I don’t think he will play tomorrow so cheering him on or anything like that wouldn’t have helped at that point.
If he has another at-bat, I would not be in favor of booing him as he walks up to the plate. |
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Surfitall Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:45 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
It’s mean, I wouldn’t do it...but I think it goes with the territory of playing in LA. Baseball isn’t immune to the same kind of pressures and expectations that the Lakers get. Remember when the fans booed Kwame Brown? Tickets are expensive, whether you are a season ticket holder or just paying for a single post season game.
Here is the reality. In the post season, he’s 7 for 68 with 30 strikeouts. He’s three for 22 this post season with 10 strikeouts. How many people has he left on base at this point? I think it was five last night alone. He’s the second worst catcher in the league when it comes to passed balls going back to the start of last season. He’s the first catcher in post season history to have two passed balls and two errors in a single game, and last night was more of the same.
It’s sad to see, I’m sure it’s traumatic for Grandal and he’ll never forget this. He can take consolation in the fact that he’s being paid $7.9M this season. You know it’s bad when you see Mary Hart yelling at Grandal from the stands. |
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aprevo15 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 5943
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Must win game today. Getting shut out at home is the worst feeling. Let's bounce back and take care of business. Go Dodgers!!!!! |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12640
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Surfitall wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
It’s mean, I wouldn’t do it...but I think it goes with the territory of playing in LA. Baseball isn’t immune to the same kind of pressures and expectations that the Lakers get. Remember when the fans booed Kwame Brown? Tickets are expensive, whether you are a season ticket holder or just paying for a single post season game.
Here is the reality. In the post season, he’s 7 for 68 with 30 strikeouts. He’s three for 22 this post season with 10 strikeouts. How many people has he left on base at this point? I think it was five last night alone. He’s the second worst catcher in the league when it comes to passed balls going back to the start of last season. He’s the first catcher in post season history to have two passed balls and two errors in a single game, and last night was more of the same.
It’s sad to see, I’m sure it’s traumatic for Grandal and he’ll never forget this. He can take consolation in the fact that he’s being paid $7.9M this season. You know it’s bad when you see Mary Hart yelling at Grandal from the stands. |
Good points. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:46 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
Garbage. |
Is there a chance there was a bit of displeasure with Robert's decision to stick with Yaz mixed in? _________________ We back. |
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2737
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | Surfitall wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
It’s mean, I wouldn’t do it...but I think it goes with the territory of playing in LA. Baseball isn’t immune to the same kind of pressures and expectations that the Lakers get. Remember when the fans booed Kwame Brown? Tickets are expensive, whether you are a season ticket holder or just paying for a single post season game.
Here is the reality. In the post season, he’s 7 for 68 with 30 strikeouts. He’s three for 22 this post season with 10 strikeouts. How many people has he left on base at this point? I think it was five last night alone. He’s the second worst catcher in the league when it comes to passed balls going back to the start of last season. He’s the first catcher in post season history to have two passed balls and two errors in a single game, and last night was more of the same.
It’s sad to see, I’m sure it’s traumatic for Grandal and he’ll never forget this. He can take consolation in the fact that he’s being paid $7.9M this season. You know it’s bad when you see Mary Hart yelling at Grandal from the stands. |
Good points. |
Yep. It sucks I do feel bad for the guy. But damn...while he's not solely responsible for the two losses, he's played a HUGE role in them.
His miscues gave the Brewers at least two runs in Game 1, he almost single-handedley sabotaged our comeback in Game 2 with the double-play, and he couldn't even put the ball in play last night to get in the tying run, he let another run come by not getting in front of the ball, he left like a bajillion guys on base.
And this has been going on ALL year with this guy. How many runs has he allowed by not being able to hold onto a perfect throw from the outfield? He'll always strike out when he needs to make contact. He's just not clutch and it's hard to watch him.
I know he's trying his best, but his body language and comments doesn't help his cause. He appears to be lazy at the plate, lazy when he runs and lazy when behind the plate. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
Garbage. |
Well, it worked since Roberts caved in his support for him. And this a man who stuck by Pedro Baez through his follies last year.
When Mary Hart gives you the business... |
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DrWolf Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 543 Location: At the basketball court next to yours, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Surfitall wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | What did you guys think of the home crowd booing Grandal? |
It’s mean, I wouldn’t do it...but I think it goes with the territory of playing in LA. Baseball isn’t immune to the same kind of pressures and expectations that the Lakers get. Remember when the fans booed Kwame Brown? Tickets are expensive, whether you are a season ticket holder or just paying for a single post season game.
Here is the reality. In the post season, he’s 7 for 68 with 30 strikeouts. He’s three for 22 this post season with 10 strikeouts. How many people has he left on base at this point? I think it was five last night alone. He’s the second worst catcher in the league when it comes to passed balls going back to the start of last season. He’s the first catcher in post season history to have two passed balls and two errors in a single game, and last night was more of the same.
It’s sad to see, I’m sure it’s traumatic for Grandal and he’ll never forget this. He can take consolation in the fact that he’s being paid $7.9M this season. You know it’s bad when you see Mary Hart yelling at Grandal from the stands. |
For me, last night felt like game 7 of last years WS. I am use to this kind of heartbreak as a dodgers fan, 6 years counting because management always finds some stupid way to piss me off. agree to this post _________________ Indianapolis Colts
Los Angeles Dodgers
Los Angeles Kings
KOBE BRYANT
1978-2020
BLACK MAMBA RIP
2020 WORLD CHAMPION LAKERS!
2020 WORLD CHAMPION DODGERS! |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38822
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I remember the home crowd booing the Dodgers when we were about to be eliminated by the Phillies in the NLCS back in 2008. I was there. That being said game 3 is kinda early to get this frustrated but then again I can understand since so many fans haven't seen the Dodgers win a championship and it seems like they get close but can't complete their mission. |
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DrWolf Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 543 Location: At the basketball court next to yours, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:22 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | I remember the home crowd booing the Dodgers when we were about to be eliminated by the Phillies in the NLCS back in 2008. I was there. That being said game 3 is kinda early to get this frustrated but then again I can understand since so many fans haven't seen the Dodgers win a championship and it seems like they get close but can't complete their mission. |
I remember that because stupid broxton decided to pitch to stairs rather than walking him _________________ Indianapolis Colts
Los Angeles Dodgers
Los Angeles Kings
KOBE BRYANT
1978-2020
BLACK MAMBA RIP
2020 WORLD CHAMPION LAKERS!
2020 WORLD CHAMPION DODGERS! |
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JerryWest_44 Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 25493
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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I'd rather see Andrew Toles instead of golfer Bellinger in the lineup. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | I remember the home crowd booing the Dodgers when we were about to be eliminated by the Phillies in the NLCS back in 2008. I was there. That being said game 3 is kinda early to get this frustrated but then again I can understand since so many fans haven't seen the Dodgers win a championship and it seems like they get close but can't complete their mission. |
It was just last year that they booed Baez before he threw a pitch. Despite the reputation of being "laid back", Dodger stadium crowds are brutal. |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12640
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Sure alotta hatin' going on towards Grandal. . . .
But . . . but . . . but . . . but he frames so well. . . . _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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oasisdude77 Star Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 2737
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: |
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DrWolf wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | I remember the home crowd booing the Dodgers when we were about to be eliminated by the Phillies in the NLCS back in 2008. I was there. That being said game 3 is kinda early to get this frustrated but then again I can understand since so many fans haven't seen the Dodgers win a championship and it seems like they get close but can't complete their mission. |
I remember that because stupid broxton decided to pitch to stairs rather than walking him |
I also remember Furcal committing two errors on one play in the decisive game 5? |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31970 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Surfitall said it all in regard to Grandal. I would expect a 20-year-old AA catcher to hit .100 in the postseason, and perhaps they wouldn't even strike out nearly half the time, either! Oh, and along with that ridiculous hitting ineptitude, he's one of the worst FIELDING catchers in history. I would have been booing my ass off last night. Roberts apparently needs a clear message that changes are in order.
And I'll say it again: if you must play Grandal, why was he batting 7th last night? There's no defense for that. Get him out of there, and get Bellinger out of there too, while we're at it. We're just giving away outs. Taylor is a strikeout machine but he actually comes up with hits in the postseason. It's like we have 3 pitchers in our lineup right now. |
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JerryWest_44 Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 25493
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Surfitall said it all in regard to Grandal. I would expect a 20-year-old AA catcher to hit .100 in the postseason, and perhaps they wouldn't even strike out nearly half the time, either! Oh, and along with that ridiculous hitting ineptitude, he's one of the worst FIELDING catchers in history. I would have been booing my ass off last night. Roberts apparently needs a clear message that changes are in order.
And I'll say it again: if you must play Grandal, why was he batting 7th last night? There's no defense for that. Get him out of there, and get Bellinger out of there too, while we're at it. We're just giving away outs. Taylor is a strikeout machine but he actually comes up with hits in the postseason. It's like we have 3 pitchers in our lineup right now. |
Ditto -- Belli are Grandahl auto outs |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 6049
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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x3^^ |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 6049
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Half glass full: Game 2 comeback was huge or we would be cooked. Win today and we can still get this done. |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12640
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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JerryWest_44 wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Surfitall said it all in regard to Grandal. I would expect a 20-year-old AA catcher to hit .100 in the postseason, and perhaps they wouldn't even strike out nearly half the time, either! Oh, and along with that ridiculous hitting ineptitude, he's one of the worst FIELDING catchers in history. I would have been booing my ass off last night. Roberts apparently needs a clear message that changes are in order.
And I'll say it again: if you must play Grandal, why was he batting 7th last night? There's no defense for that. Get him out of there, and get Bellinger out of there too, while we're at it. We're just giving away outs. Taylor is a strikeout machine but he actually comes up with hits in the postseason. It's like we have 3 pitchers in our lineup right now. |
Ditto -- Belli are Grandahl auto outs |
Any guesses who were two of the three worst clutch hitters on the Dodgers during the regular season? _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47594
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Shaking my head at Machado.
Even if you feel this way, is the NLCS the time to start talking about it?
Obviously I’m not going to change, I’m not the type of player that’s going to be ‘Johnny Hustle,’ and run down the line and slide to first base and … you know, whatever can happen. That’s just not my personality, that’s not my cup of tea, that’s not who I am. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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