If Klutch did indeed advise him to turn down $70M he does have a malpractice case.
Are you a lawyer? Do you have any case law examples?
The very fact he's suing him means a lawyer thinks he has a case.
On a side note, pretty funny that this lawsuit might have happened because Klutch couldn't let go of a 200k fee after screwing Noel's entire financial career.
Not a lawyer but a suit like this could see discovery reach out beyond Noel and Klutch to interactions with other teams in the league. If Noel’s side is fishing there could be info about other teams, FOs and agents come to light.
I read the petition. The biggest problem that Noel faces is not the merits of his case. It turns out that the standard contract that Noel signed contains an arbitration agreement that requires players to resolve any disputes with agents by filing a grievance and going to arbitration. Here's the kicker: they have to file the grievance within 30 days. If that is enforceable, he loses almost instantly. As a result, he is asking for the court to declare the arbitration clause unenforceable as a matter of public policy. Here's what the petition says:
Quote:
Section 1 of the SPAC provides that the SPAC is entered into pursuant to and in accordance with the NBPA Regulations. Section 7 of the SPAC provides that all disputes between the player and agent under the SPAC must be resolved exclusively through the arbitration procedure set forth in section 5 of the NBPA Regulations. The NBPA Regulations provide that the arbitration of dispute shall be initiated by the filing of written grievance, and that any grievance must be filed within thirty (30) days from the date of the occurrence of the event upon which the grievance is based or within thirty (30) days from the date on which the facts of the matter become known or reasonably should have become known to the grievant or within thirty (30) days from the effective date of these Regulations, whichever is later.
Noel requests declaratory judgment pursuant to Tex. Civ. Prac. Rem. Code 37.001 et seq, that of the SPAC is invalid, void, and unenforceable and that the agreement to arbitrate this dispute is otherwise contrary to public policy and is unenforceable and void.
It surprises me that the union has a rule like that, but apparently it does. I litigate a fair number of cases involving forced arbitration clauses, but I've never had one come up in the context of union rules. From my general knowledge of federal labor law, I'd say that Noel will have a hard time getting past the arbitration requirement, including the 30-day rule. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
If Klutch did indeed advise him to turn down $70M he does have a malpractice case.
Are you a lawyer? Do you have any case law examples?
The very fact he's suing him means a lawyer thinks he has a case.
On a side note, pretty funny that this lawsuit might have happened because Klutch couldn't let go of a 200k fee after screwing Noel's entire financial career.
Not a lawyer but a suit like this could see discovery reach out beyond Noel and Klutch to interactions with other teams in the league. If Noel’s side is fishing there could be info about other teams, FOs and agents come to light.
I read the petition. The biggest problem that Noel faces is not the merits of his case. It turns out that the standard contract that Noel signed contains an arbitration agreement that requires players to resolve any disputes with agents by filing a grievance and going to arbitration. Here's the kicker: they have to file the grievance within 30 days. If that is enforceable, he loses almost instantly. As a result, he is asking for the court to declare the arbitration clause unenforceable as a matter of public policy. Here's what the petition says:
Quote:
Section 1 of the SPAC provides that the SPAC is entered into pursuant to and in accordance with the NBPA Regulations. Section 7 of the SPAC provides that all disputes between the player and agent under the SPAC must be resolved exclusively through the arbitration procedure set forth in section 5 of the NBPA Regulations. The NBPA Regulations provide that the arbitration of dispute shall be initiated by the filing of written grievance, and that any grievance must be filed within thirty (30) days from the date of the occurrence of the event upon which the grievance is based or within thirty (30) days from the date on which the facts of the matter become known or reasonably should have become known to the grievant or within thirty (30) days from the effective date of these Regulations, whichever is later.
Noel requests declaratory judgment pursuant to Tex. Civ. Prac. Rem. Code 37.001 et seq, that of the SPAC is invalid, void, and unenforceable and that the agreement to arbitrate this dispute is otherwise contrary to public policy and is unenforceable and void.
It surprises me that the union has a rule like that, but apparently it does. I litigate a fair number of cases involving forced arbitration clauses, but I've never had one come up in the context of union rules. From my general knowledge of federal labor law, I'd say that Noel will have a hard time getting past the arbitration requirement, including the 30-day rule.
Aeneas - no unconscionability or K of adhesion work around you see perhaps his attorneys can raise? _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
If Klutch did indeed advise him to turn down $70M he does have a malpractice case.
Are you a lawyer? Do you have any case law examples?
The very fact he's suing him means a lawyer thinks he has a case.
On a side note, pretty funny that this lawsuit might have happened because Klutch couldn't let go of a 200k fee after screwing Noel's entire financial career.
Not a lawyer but a suit like this could see discovery reach out beyond Noel and Klutch to interactions with other teams in the league. If Noel’s side is fishing there could be info about other teams, FOs and agents come to light.
I read the petition. The biggest problem that Noel faces is not the merits of his case. It turns out that the standard contract that Noel signed contains an arbitration agreement that requires players to resolve any disputes with agents by filing a grievance and going to arbitration. Here's the kicker: they have to file the grievance within 30 days. If that is enforceable, he loses almost instantly. As a result, he is asking for the court to declare the arbitration clause unenforceable as a matter of public policy. Here's what the petition says:
Quote:
Section 1 of the SPAC provides that the SPAC is entered into pursuant to and in accordance with the NBPA Regulations. Section 7 of the SPAC provides that all disputes between the player and agent under the SPAC must be resolved exclusively through the arbitration procedure set forth in section 5 of the NBPA Regulations. The NBPA Regulations provide that the arbitration of dispute shall be initiated by the filing of written grievance, and that any grievance must be filed within thirty (30) days from the date of the occurrence of the event upon which the grievance is based or within thirty (30) days from the date on which the facts of the matter become known or reasonably should have become known to the grievant or within thirty (30) days from the effective date of these Regulations, whichever is later.
Noel requests declaratory judgment pursuant to Tex. Civ. Prac. Rem. Code 37.001 et seq, that of the SPAC is invalid, void, and unenforceable and that the agreement to arbitrate this dispute is otherwise contrary to public policy and is unenforceable and void.
It surprises me that the union has a rule like that, but apparently it does. I litigate a fair number of cases involving forced arbitration clauses, but I've never had one come up in the context of union rules. From my general knowledge of federal labor law, I'd say that Noel will have a hard time getting past the arbitration requirement, including the 30-day rule.
Big thanks to AH for reading and commenting on Noel petition for us.
Things don't look positive for Noel's side legally. But if anything they allege is at least partially true, it is a very bad look for Klutch. The longer the proceedings go the more likely things come-out that might affect Klutch not getting a future client(s). I suspect Noel is just hoping for some settlement from Klutch to make this go away.
This is also a good reminder to us that we don't always know what is going on behind the scenes when things don't happen. How many times have we seen comments here in recent years asking for Noel to join the Lakers. Now we can see why that was not going to happen.
1 - Rich Paul wasn't Noel's agent when he turned down the extension;
2 - Noel's numbers seem to warrant the deals he received;
3 - Proving the loss is Paul's fault is going to be tough, given that Noel got hurt after turning the extension down - the injury may well be the culprit that there was no $100 million market for him.
Noel, 26, had been represented by Paul the last three years. He infamously turned down a four-year, $70 million offer from the Dallas Mavericks in 2017 but did so under former agent Happy Walters. That ultimately led to Noel’s decision to replace Walters with Paul. Under Paul however, Noel has failed to recoup anywhere close to those earnings. He signed a one-year, $5 million deal with the New York Knicks this offseason. That marked Noel’s biggest single-season salary with Paul as his agent.
_________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
1 - Rich Paul wasn't Noel's agent when he turned down the extension;
2 - Noel's numbers seem to warrant the deals he received;
3 - Proving the loss is Paul's fault is going to be tough, given that Noel got hurt after turning the extension down - the injury may well be the culprit that there was no $100 million market for him.
Noel, 26, had been represented by Paul the last three years. He infamously turned down a four-year, $70 million offer from the Dallas Mavericks in 2017 but did so under former agent Happy Walters. That ultimately led to Noel’s decision to replace Walters with Paul. Under Paul however, Noel has failed to recoup anywhere close to those earnings. He signed a one-year, $5 million deal with the New York Knicks this offseason. That marked Noel’s biggest single-season salary with Paul as his agent.
Interesting details, thanks _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4389 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:54 pm Post subject:
epic_ wrote:
So this all started because noel didn't pay a $200K commission to Klutch?
I admittingly haven't been following this very close at all but that's what I seen as well.. Sounds like an extremely bitter player that lost out on an insane amount of money mostly due to his injury in the contract year and is now looking to avoid paying that fee and get some of that $$$$ he lost back.
There could be more to it I haven't seen/hasn't come out yet but imo it's looking like a pretty easy win for Klutch overall.. Not the greatest look for the brand but it's nothing that will sink them or anything. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this was all started with the hopeful plan that Klutch would just settle for a lower amount and give him some "shut up money".
Wasn’t Noel injured in college? I remember watching his highschool tape and was just blown by how the guy couldn’t do anything without being spoon fed under the basket. I never saw anything special.
This situation is like Dennis Schroder, a player bet on himself and lost.
Aeneas - no unconscionability or K of adhesion work around you see perhaps his attorneys can raise?
Those are generally losing arguments under current law when raised as defenses to arbitration. Noel might have a chance on an unconscionability challenge to the 30-day requirement. If it was a consumer contract or an employment contract, that would be a pretty good argument. But this is a regulation imposed by a union on its members. I've never had an arbitration case in that context, but I know that the courts will allow a lot of things in the union context that they would not allow in the non-union context. The union's regulations are not actually part of the collective bargaining agreement, but the union claims to have the authority to implement the regulations under the collective bargaining agreement and the National Labor Relations Act. If that's right -- and I have no reason to doubt it -- there's a pretty good chance that the 30-day rule is valid.
I find it odd that this rule even exists. The union represents the players and regulates the agents. Why would the union impose a rule that requires the players to make a claim against an agent within 30 days? I guess this shows how much power the agents have within the union. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
I'll give you a couple more excerpts from the petition to provide some flavor and to clarify some of the comments by others. Take this for whatever it's worth. First of all, Noel says that he hired Paul before turning down the Dallas offer:
Quote:
Ultimately, at the behest of Paul, Noel terminated his agency relationship with Happy Walters and officially entered into a contract with Paul on August 21, 2017. . . .
. . . .
On August 23, 2017, two days after Paul and Noel entered into the SPC, Paul advised Noel that he should cease negotiations with Dallas and proceed with signing the qualifying offer that had previously been presented to Noel by the Mavericks. The qualifying offer was for one-year contract to play for the Mavericks in exchange for payment of approximately $4.1 million.
Noel took Paul’s advice and accepted and entered the qualifying contract with the Mavericks on August 23, 2017. . . . Paul is identified as Noel’s agent on the Dallas UPC, and he received payment of 4% of the value of the contract from Noel.
Quote:
Noel learned from his former coach with the 76ers, Brett Brown, who was still with the 76ers, that the 76ers front office had been trying to contact Paul to discuss the possibility of signing Noel to a contract where he would return to the 76ers. However, Paul did not take and/or return any of the calls from the 76ers. Noel also learned that Paul was not returning or taking calls from other team representatives who were interested in signing Noel for their respective teams.
Of course, the obvious question is why Noel didn't fire Rich Paul when he found out about this. He has an answer:
Quote:
Once again, during the 2019-2020 season, neither Paul nor Klutch Sports were doing any work on Noel’s behalf. Concerned about the lack of effort or results, Noel contemplated terminating his relationship with Paul sometime in January 2020. Noel expressed his concerns to Mr. Lucas Newton from Klutch Sports, and Newton informed Noel that he had been talking to Oklahoma City on his behalf and that OKC was planning on offering Noel three-year deal for between $7 and $10 million per year. Based on this representation, Noel did not terminate his relationship with Paul.
The 2019/2020 season ended, and the free agency period began in November 2020. On the first day of the free agency period, and despite the prior representations of Mr. Newton, Noel did not hear from a single team. Noel spoke with Mr. Newton that night, and Mr. Newton advised Noel that the Oklahoma City deal was still in play and that they were just trying to move money around on the books to create cap space for the deal. However, Noel later learned that representatives from the Houston Rockets and the Los Angeles Clippers were trying to contact Paul, but that Paul was not taking or returning those calls.
Noel fires Paul in December 2020. Then:
Quote:
Once the 2021 NBA regular season was over and the free agency season began, and with Paul no longer in the picture, Noel signed a three-year deal with the Knicks for total of approximately $32 million.
I can see why Noel is pissed, but I'm not blown away by his allegations. He got bad services from Paul, but didn't fire him. When he did fire him, he got better services from his new agent. But his real complaint is the Dallas contract. Rich Paul had an opinion about the contract offer, and it turned out to be wrong. Well, agents and advisors aren't always right. That doesn't mean that it isn't honest or competent advice. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Some of these names are a reminder that a NBA career can be over in a flash. It seems like just yesterday that these guys were the subject of draft discussions. Now they're all in the clearance bin, one step from heading to Europe. Malik Monk was almost on this list, and he might be on it next year. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
The Lakers are stacked. Any player that they sign from now on, will not play a huge role on the team. With the last 3 spots, they would take a chance on 2-3 young guys, who hasn't panned out in the league so far, and hope that playing and being around these vets, will unlock some untapped potential.
The players that I would like the team to take a chance on are:
Harry Giles
Thon Maker
Denzel Valentine
Svi Mykhailiuk
Stanley Johnson
Cassius Stanley
Justin Jackson
The Lakers are stacked. Any player that they sign from now on, will not play a huge role on the team.
I don't know that we're stacked, but I don't see any names on the list from the clearance bin that would be better than the vet min pool on our roster. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Some of these names are a reminder that a NBA career can be over in a flash. It seems like just yesterday that these guys were the subject of draft discussions. Now they're all in the clearance bin, one step from heading to Europe. Malik Monk was almost on this list, and he might be on it next year.
crazy list. I remember how a few of these guys were the "next"
The Lakers are stacked. Any player that they sign from now on, will not play a huge role on the team. With the last 3 spots, they would take a chance on 2-3 young guys, who hasn't panned out in the league so far, and hope that playing and being around these vets, will unlock some untapped potential.
The players that I would like the team to take a chance on are:
Harry Giles
Thon Maker
Denzel Valentine
Svi Mykhailiuk
Stanley Johnson
Cassius Stanley
Justin Jackson
Any Combination of these guys.
Seems like only a few months ago the Lakers were being castigated for getting rid of Svi. Now the guy is practically out of the league.
Maybe Rob knew what he was doing? _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
I took a look at highlights from some of these guys, google search “NF YouTube 2021 << players name >>”
I looked at D.J. Wilson as a replacement for Kyle Kuzma. Carmelo Anthony looks way better. 25 years old. Unsigned.
I think these 2.
IH has spent time with RW in Houston. Good passing skills, rebounds, looks to be mobile, can block shots, not sure about an outside shot but the Lakers have plenty of shooters now. With his passing skills they can get some open 3s.
Seems like only a few months ago the Lakers were being castigated for getting rid of Svi. Now the guy is practically out of the league.
There is always someone who bonds with every player who passes through, but I don’t recall widespread angst about Svi. He was a late second round pick who hasn’t defied the odds so far. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Seems like only a few months ago the Lakers were being castigated for getting rid of Svi. Now the guy is practically out of the league.
There is always someone who bonds with every player who passes through, but I don’t recall widespread angst about Svi. He was a late second round pick who hasn’t defied the odds so far.
As Lakers fans I think we all want that good shooting white guy that has killed us in the past:
JJ Redick
Steve Kerr
Steve Nash
Dirk
Korver
Bird and others.
Svi was one of the latest we had hoped would be our Great White Shooter.
Now there is Reaves..Not sure he will be it but history shows the Lakers this probably won't happen.
The Lakers are stacked. Any player that they sign from now on, will not play a huge role on the team.
I don't know that we're stacked, but I don't see any names on the list from the clearance bin that would be better than the vet min pool on our roster.
I agree: I wouldn't call us stacked. We have a lot of older veterans with recognizable names, and we're hoping some of those guys perform well enough to form a decent rotation behind the Big Three.
The Lakers are stacked. Any player that they sign from now on, will not play a huge role on the team.
I don't know that we're stacked, but I don't see any names on the list from the clearance bin that would be better than the vet min pool on our roster.
I agree: I wouldn't call us stacked. We have a lot of older veterans with recognizable names, and we're hoping some of those guys perform well enough to form a decent rotation behind the Big Three.
Westbrook
Ellington
Melo
Lebron
AD
Nunn
THT
Bazemore
Ariza
Dwight
Monk
Maybe even Gasol.
That is a LEGIT, 11 man rotation. Combining All Star, MVP players, seasoned Vets and Young Guns. If that is not stacked....i dont know what is, I mean, what more can you ask for?
IH has spent time with RW in Houston. Good passing skills, rebounds, looks to be mobile, can block shots, not sure about an outside shot but the Lakers have plenty of shooters now. With his passing skills they can get some open 3s.
Nice call on Isaiah Hartenstein
It reminds me of Frank Kaminsky in the finals with Deandre Ayton in foul trouble. He was solid in limited minutes.
Last edited by JUST-MING on Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
IH has spent time with RW in Houston. Good passing skills, rebounds, looks to be mobile, can block shots, not sure about an outside shot but the Lakers have plenty of shooters now. With his passing skills they can get some open 3s.
Nice call on Isaiah Hartenstein
It reminds me of Frank Kaminsky in the finals with Deandre Ayton in foul trouble. He was solid in limited minutes.
OK video of IH and the fit with the Lakers. Typical Laker fan enthusiasm but good points are made although he refers to him as Isiah Thomas a few times.
It’s not a good look to dump the star that forced his way here, but if Dame eventually becomes available, would Portland bite on a Russ headlined package?
Looks like the old heads will be bypassing the rigmarole of the regular season to jump onto a contender later in the season. Also it appears Milsap may have priced himself out of becoming an option here.
Quote:
Millsap could very well end up being this year’s Nic Batum, a skilled mercenary who rounds out a playoff unit’s starting lineup or top of their rotation in a reduced role. He has fans across the league, but Millsap’s conversations with teams this summer have revolved around salary figures at or near the $5.9 million tax-payer mid-level exception, sources said. At present, there’s an expectation among league executives that Millsap could ride out an extended offseason, resting his legs after Denver’s run to the 2020 Western Conference Finals and the subsequent sprint that was the 2020-21 campaign.
Golden State has been the team most often linked by league sources to Paul Millsap, arguably the most consequential free agent left. Yet while the 36-year-old former All-Star has drawn interest from the Warriors, Hawks, Nets, Pelicans, 76ers and Timberwolves, no team sources contacted by Bleacher Report indicated any contract agreement with Millsap has come close to the finish line.
Several team executives believe two to three months, though, could be a conservative timeline. Redick, like Millsap, could linger on the league’s periphery until the calendar flips to 2022, biding his time with an eye toward joining either New York or Brooklyn, the latter borough being where Redick resides. Multiple front-office personnel contacted by B/R mentioned their medical team would need to clear an apparent heel injury that may have hampered Redick during his time in New Orleans. Teams flagged it back before the March 25 trade deadline, when New Orleans was discussing Redick packages, sources said.
Redick’s apparent desire to land with the Knicks and the Nets has long circulated in the NBA. Several executives have even speculated the veteran could retire if he does not come to terms with either franchise. Yet there likely will be other suitors interested in adding Redick’s bench shooting come January as well. “I would bring him on,” one Western Conference head coach told B/R. “He can go anywhere and provide value.”
– via Jake Fischer @ Bleacher Report
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