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cmonkee
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 Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Bumping this thread in light of all that happened with this the 2015 free-agency offseason.
Duncan's paycut worked - Spurs got Aldridge (and kept Leonard). Dirk's didn't, and it seems extremely unlikely that the Mavs are going to contend anytime for the rest of his career. Wade got paid (but the salary cap's gone up).
Looking forward - KG just signed a two year, $16 million contract with the Timberwolves that will take him into his 21st and 22nd seasons. It apparently also include a clause for a management role if he no longer can play. I can't help but wonder if this establishes a baseline for Kobe's market value should he continue to want to play past this season... |
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dmills
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money.
Dirk on the other hand is phucked. Well, as much as a multi millionaire can be anyway lol
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| dmills wrote: | | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid.
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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A healthy Kobe is still worth twice what Minny agreed to pay KG for the last hurrah. I can see him taking 10 to 15m per for a 2 year extension ala KG while not hampering the cap to sign KD in 2016.
Remember the cap will increase to 70m n Kobe taking 10m alone will leave 15m. Add the increase in cap may give a sufficient room for Durant.
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Let say we sign 2 max FA next summer, can we then sign Kobe over the cap? What about Hibbert? Kinda like LeBron |
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32
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kobe will be a surprise this year. With more help and Russ/clarkson/Lou/even Randle to help with running the team he will have less to shoulder. I'm hoping for a great year from him.
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Let say we sign 2 max FA next summer, can we then sign Kobe over the cap? What about Hibbert? Kinda like LeBron |
No, what's the point? You think KD will be thrilled to have Kobe on this team next year? I do t care how little $ Kobe cost next season it's time to turn the page before it gets ugly. |
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dmills
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | dmills wrote: | | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
Yep. As I said, TD is the exception to the rule due to special circumstances.
Another factor that we fail to consider is that the Lakers as an organization just don't operate that way. They would never go to a star player and tell him as part of their pitch; "if you take less money to play here we can sign multiple stars to the team". As we've with the CP3 fiasco and more recently, the DeAndre Jordan clusterphuck, cold hard reality can supersede even the best of expectations.
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Last edited by dmills on Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dirk took a paycut so Jordan can go to the Clips. lol
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dmills
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Dirk took a paycut so Jordan can go to the Clips. lol |
Exactly. And although you're probably being facetious that's precisely what ultimately happened.
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Tark the Shark
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
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Marty
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Based on KG's latest contract (15 mil / 2 yrs), Kobe will probably command at least 12mil even if he's not as productive as his pre-Achilles version (2013). If Kobe still feels good on the court, and decides to continue playing, my guess is he would get a KG type of deal, only at 15million/yr. |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tark the Shark wrote: | | The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
Uh huh. And what free agents did we miss out on with the loss in cap space?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| dmills wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | dmills wrote: | | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
Yep. As I said, TD is the exception to the rule due to special circumstances.
Another factor that we fail to consider is that the Lakers as an organization just don't operate that way. They would never go to a star player and tell him as part of their pitch; "if you take less money to play here we can sign multiple stars to the team". As we've with the CP3 fiasco and more recently, the DeAndre Jordan clusterphuck, cold hard reality can supersede even the best of expectations. |
I'm not sure I really understand why it bears pointing out that it is the exception to the rule. What exactly is the rule?
That no player should ever take a pay cut to help his team? Or is the rule that a player who takes a paycut to help the team, often doesn't get the benefits of that paycut, with the exception being Duncan?
And how is the CP3 fiasco and DJ situation also not exceptions to the rule? Those things rarely happen.
In either case, I think it misses the point. The paycut is taken to give the team an opportunity to improve. Of course there's a risk in doing so (i.e. Dirk). And there's also a reward (i.e. Duncan, LBJ/Wade/Bosh).
At the time of Kobe's extension, if he was willing to take a paycut to give the FO a chance to put a better team around him, wouldn't that have been ideal?
I can't think of any realistic scenario, in which it would have been in the best interests of a salary capped team, for a player not to willingly take a paycut even if the act doesn't go unrewarded. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | Tark the Shark wrote: | | The Kobe contract set back the rebuild by a few years. It was a bad deal then and still is. Luckily, the Lakers seem to have drafted well. |
Uh huh. And what free agents did we miss out on with the loss in cap space? |
We'll never know.
Would it be better for the team, or worse, had they had an extra $10M in cap space right now?
I say better. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
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epak
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
I don't have a problem with Kobe getting paid.
However, one argument that some would say is that we would have had money to offer 2 max free agents instead of one. That may have led to a combo of LA and DJ. But seeing how DJ was a total *****, I guess it was a blessing in disguise.
Imagine if LA and DJ both agreed w/ the Lakers. Then DJ showed off his ***** character and reneged. Then LA being the sole guy, reneged. I can see it happening haha.
Now, if Kobe got over $14M next year, I might have an issue. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Among all the teams in the lottery, the Lakers were the only team that Aldridge and DJ set up meetings with. Think about that...
Players are still eager to don the purple and gold if the teams are slightly more competitive instead of being bottom dweller. It's not outrageous to say that playing with Kobe Bryant (whom garner so much respect from everyone in the league) is a big part of the attraction.
The only ones eager to see Kobe retire is the media and those foolish enough to believe them. Players who are serious about improving their game generally flock to him for guidance and tutelage.
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | Considering that just about every significant FA stayed with their own team, I'd say it really wouldn't make much of a difference. |
I don't have a problem with Kobe getting paid.
However, one argument that some would say is that we would have had money to offer 2 max free agents instead of one. That may have led to a combo of LA and DJ. But seeing how DJ was a total *****, I guess it was a blessing in disguise.
Imagine if LA and DJ both agreed w/ the Lakers. Then DJ showed off his ***** character and reneged. Then LA being the sole guy, reneged. I can see it happening haha.
Now, if Kobe got over $14M next year, I might have an issue. |
But can't we do it Ala cleveland? Sign everybody else then sign Kobe over the cap after? |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | dmills wrote: | | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | dmills wrote: | | Duncan's pay cut is the exception to the rule. Much of that has to do with him knowing that Manu, TP and coach Pop would be there. Lakers were a mess when Kobe took his money. |
Duncan had a FO he could trusts and a team already in place. Kobe has a FO that wasted bis absolute best years, passed on Phil Jackson for MDA, and had him surrounded by the likes of Xavier Henry and Wes Johnson when the contract was presented to him. Yeah, go ahead and take that paycut, and spend the last remaining years of your career playing with lotto players while also getting underpaid. |
If only we were able to see Kobe playing with those lotto players. Hopefully his last season will give us some sweet things to remember.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
Delusion is alive and well. The Kobe we have seen in this contract isn't worth $10 mil. Hopefully that will change this season.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Kobe is now only worth 5-10 million a year just like his peers Garnett, Duncan, Nowitzki and Pierce. |
Those guys were never Kobe's peers. Maybe in terms of on-court success. But in terms of popularity and value brought to an organization, Kobe's only peers in NBA history are LeBron James and Michael Jordan.
Its an insult to insuinate Kobe Bryant is only worth $10 million. In a true FREE MARKET, his value is upwards of $100 million/yr. |
Delusion is alive and well. The Kobe we have seen in this contract isn't worth $10 mil. Hopefully that will change this season. |
This place is incredible, isn't it? Haha.
He'll be in a free market after this season so let's see if anyone pays him $100M to do anything at all. #wonthappen |
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