Knicks and Phil Jackson part ways
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ksmgf
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1932

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Knicks and Phil Jackson part ways

Phil Jackson out as president of the Knicks.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19755552/new-york-knicks-team-president-phil-jackson-expected-part-ways-wednesday
_________________


Last edited by ksmgf on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 27719

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject:

Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 78375
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Bye Philecia.
_________________
Tolerance is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
K2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 22159

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax.


Dolan's out of his mind, so Isiah Thomas probably gets another whack at driving the Knicks further down Mariana trench.
Phil will eventually be back in LA, beach sandals and all, counting that buyout money.
First things first, back to Montana for some r&r and peyote.
Then another book.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Rek
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 1683
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject:

Meh, the books write themselves. What else does Rosen have on his plate?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ksmgf
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1932

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Wonder who will be the GM now?
Phil failed as a GM. What will be do now? Ride off into the sunset?
I guess this means Porky will stay on the Knicks. Melo probably staying as well since it was a battle of wills between him and Pjax.


If Dolan is smart he should give a call to David Griffin.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
gumby
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2244
Location: Anaheim

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject:

Another bullet dodged!

Jeannie, don't get any dumb ideas here!

Bye.
_________________
"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 51486

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:07 am    Post subject:

Phil pushed it too far with the Porzingis trade talk.
I believe in Phil's methods but you can't try to trade Porzingis even if he skipped a meeting.

For Phil the win here is he gets 24M in guaranteed money for a paid vacation.

For 3 years of work Dolan will pay Phil $60 M. Highway robbery, as Phil didn't even do a good job.

Isiah, Larry Brown, Mike D'Antoni, Walsh, Phil Jackson. Doesn't matter what guy goes there. It just seems under Dolan everything goes horrible for them.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Rz0TSprFc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 51486

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:22 am    Post subject:

One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck. He really can not be a manager at a high position if he keeps the same people skills. He had a major conflict with Melo (which is ok because well everyone has one with him from Karl, D'Antoni, Phil was just the latest). Then he has conflict with Kristaps, and that to me was a big red flag. Too many changes in coaching, and again that's people skills again. Derek Fisher wasn't a bad coach for them, but he had bad communication with Phil, so Phil fired him. From a coaching perspective, there wasn't much of a reason to fire Fisher last year when he did. Knicks team was doing well at that point. He replaced him with Hornachek/Rambis only because Rambis/Hornachek were more yes men, or he had better communication with them. Again, people skills.

I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.

But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.

At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.

Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Rz0TSprFc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
kikanga
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 15933
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:25 am    Post subject:

When it came to Jim and Phil. I always figured one would succeed and one would fail. Never considered both could fail.
I do remember Phil was hired within a year after Jim. And now they are fired within the same year. I guess you could call is kismet. Everybody talks about how many more chips Shaq and Kobe could've won if they valued each other and got along. I have a similar question in regards to our past front office.
_________________
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41320

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject:

It was never going to work and it didn't. The Knick fans deserve much better and I hope they get it.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Chronicle
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 28577
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:48 am    Post subject:

Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse
_________________
also sprach magic johnson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41320

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:50 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse


That would be difficult to achieve, but this is an encouraging report.

Knicks owner James Dolan is targeting Toronto's Masai Ujiri to replace Phil Jackson as N.Y.'s President, league sources tell @TheVertical.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
oldschool32
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 19648

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:53 am    Post subject:

If Dolan had any clue, he would have done this before the draft.
_________________
"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
20,000
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 28546
Location: At encina1's house

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Knicks fans are worried the replacement is gonna be even worse


That would be difficult to achieve, but this is an encouraging report.

Knicks owner James Dolan is targeting Toronto's Masai Ujiri to replace Phil Jackson as N.Y.'s President, league sources tell @TheVertical.


Somehow that will be screwed up.

Too bad we couldn't get Phil to agree to a bad trade before he left.
_________________
Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 14012
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject:

I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money.
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41320

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:43 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money.


Keep in mind that Dolan picked up his option on Phil two months ago. He could have gotten out of the money and better planned for the draft/FA. It seems Dolan was so obsessed with overcoming the criticism that he meddles in basketball ops too much that he stood by as Phil decimated the team. I'm sure Dolan is feeling like damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but that's sports ownership.
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Bard207
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 4336

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck. He really can not be a manager at a high position if he keeps the same people skills. He had a major conflict with Melo (which is ok because well everyone has one with him from Karl, D'Antoni, Phil was just the latest). Then he has conflict with Kristaps, and that to me was a big red flag. Too many changes in coaching, and again that's people skills again. Derek Fisher wasn't a bad coach for them, but he had bad communication with Phil, so Phil fired him. From a coaching perspective, there wasn't much of a reason to fire Fisher last year when he did. Knicks team was doing well at that point. He replaced him with Hornachek/Rambis only because Rambis/Hornachek were more yes men, or he had better communication with them. Again, people skills.

I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.

But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.

At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.

Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY.



Isiah Thomas and Phil Jackson should have been restricted to a specialist position of talent evaluation instead of being given control of basketball operations (or similar title). Dolan let other factions in the Knicks organization undercut D'Antoni and Walsh. I don't remember what the story was with Larry Brown.

In regards to some HOF names failing with the Knicks, they made the HOF for things other than being a FO executive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 37843

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
One thing that really came out about Phil in these last 3 years, his people skills suck.

I think Phil did great for NY from the draft perspective. Years from now Knicks fans will look back and see that Phil was better than many of the other GM's they have had. He didn't trade their picks, he valued their draft picks and got them some players now with Kristaps, Hernangomez (who I think made first team all rookie) and now drafted that unknown but high potential french kid Ntilikina (Has a 7 foot wingspan, athletic PG). Years from now they'll see that he meant well especially with the draft.

But man, his people skills just sucked. He is not cut out for being a head of FO with those kind of people skills. Always knew he was an ass, arrogrant etc. Still. This really was pretty bad for him that he just couldn't keep his mouth or be more professional at times. He couldn't resist doing what he did as a coach in terms of mind games, shots in the press, talking through Rosen etc.

At most, he should consider working as an consultant and looking at draft picks. He's done really well for NY in that regard and I think that's the only FO role he was good at. He should stay away from being the guy in front of the press and dealing with coaches and players directly and more the guy that observes what players to draft, He knows talent.

Dolan though, IMO, remains the biggest problem. Doesn't matter who was there the last 15 years. Always the same ending. Isiah Thomas. Larry Brown. Mike D'Antoni. Donnis Walsh. Phil Jackson. Lots of HOF names there. Some of those names have had great success elsehwere but just not in NY.


Great post Pac, I edited some of it to try and keep it shorter for the quote trains but I agree with you on Phil's lack of people skills.

What works to motivate players as a coach proved not to work well running things in a management role. I agree with you also on his drafting, pretty solid job there at least but failed to impact the team positively.

Dolan is a nightmare, much like Dean Spanos for the LA Faux Chargers, you can't win big with a dipwad as owner. At least I thought so until LeBron saved Comic Sans Gilbert.

But back to Jackson, for what he was being paid...just not nearly enough impact or positive press.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 37843

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject:

encina1 wrote:


Too bad we couldn't get Phil to agree to a bad trade before he left.


I like the way you are thinking! Let's prey on the weak GM's.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vanexelent
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 27710

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
numero-ocho wrote:
I wasn't sure until all that Porzingis trade talk started going around but I believe Phil wanted to get fired. He didn't want to just quit and walk away from all that money.


Keep in mind that Dolan picked up his option on Phil two months ago. He could have gotten out of the money and better planned for the draft/FA. It seems Dolan was so obsessed with overcoming the criticism that he meddles in basketball ops too much that he stood by as Phil decimated the team. I'm sure Dolan is feeling like damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but that's sports ownership.


To be fair, Phil didn't threaten to trade Pordzingis before his option was picked up. That seems to be the defining factor here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ocho
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 41320

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject:

Dolan reiterates, again, in his press release that he will not be involved in the operation of the team. Maybe sell it then?
_________________
14-5-3-12
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
22
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 14967

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Phil pushed it too far with the Porzingis trade talk.
I believe in Phil's methods but you can't try to trade Porzingis even if he skipped a meeting.

For Phil the win here is he gets 24M in guaranteed money for a paid vacation.

For 3 years of work Dolan will pay Phil $60 M. Highway robbery, as Phil didn't even do a good job.

Isiah, Larry Brown, Mike D'Antoni, Walsh, Phil Jackson. Doesn't matter what guy goes there. It just seems under Dolan everything goes horrible for them.


No you don't wolf and your second post proves that.

He made 2 good draft picks. Literally everything else he's done for them has been an absolute disaster. Heck one of my best friends is now a Laker fan as of a few weeks ago. Phil was his last straw as NYK fan
_________________
Blake Griffin's ankles beware....Randle is coming
The youngins are YOUNG, let them learn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
activeverb
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 24857

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Wonder who will be the GM now?.


Charles Oakley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
angrypuppy
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 30387

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:18 am    Post subject:

Well, FWIW at least there isn't a vacancy in the Lakers FO, not unless Jeanie creates a consulting position.

I loved Phil as HC, despite his shortcomings, but he is not who you want calling the shots from the FO. I actually wondered if Phil was playing the binary-decision game with Dolan the past few months: Either let me destroy this team so I can rebuild from scratch, or fire me. The Knicks are going nowhere with that roster, and they're cursed with ownership that has ADHD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> General Basketball Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2010 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB