Where would the Lakers be if Lebron didn't choose to come here?
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject:

I was personally in favor of prioritizing Paul George/Aaron Mintz and Lebron not coming. I can reassure you that this isn't revisionist history because I have played this in my mind over and over both before and after we signed Lebron.

Yes the one championship justifies Lebron coming but this is an alternative reality I like to imagine, beginning in June 2018 (meaning we had already traded Russell, Nance and Clarkson):

2018: Prioritize Julius Randle/Aaron Mintz and sell Paul George/Mintz on a plan to sign PG13 (age 26 then), have one competitive developmental year with the youth and go after the big dogs the next year (Kawhi, KD, etc.). Remember that PG13 was coming off a disappointing first round exit against the Jazz that year

-I would have kept some of the players who helped in 2018, particularly Lopez for one year at a good price (knowing we have his bird rights).. he signed for close to the vet min with Milwaukee that year
-One person I was praying we would sign for the MLE for 2-3 years was Seth Curry. He instead signed for the minimum with Portland and we signed Stephenson with the MLE (a head scratcher to this day that I first guessed).
-Instead of KCP for 12mil.. that money should have gone to Randle for 2-3 years. Randle instead signed with NO for 2 years 18 mill. - I would've also kept T Bryant rather than let him walk for nothing. Dude was 19 and first team all G-league.. that's gotta count for sthg!
-I would have also kept Deng for one more year and traded him the year after for a future 1st round pick.. otherwise I would not have had a problem packaging our 25th pick that year (Mo Wagner) and a future pick to get rid of his contract and free up additional space.. one trade I thought we could have made with the Cavs was Deng, 2018 pick (back to the Cavs) and future pick for George Hill
- I would have offered KCP $9m rather than the $12m that should have gone to Randle .. I highly doubt KCP could have done better in the open market
- I don't know much about the draft so let's assume we stuck with Mo Wagner and Svi, although I got the impression we were going for Mitch Robinson, who has turned out to be better than Wagner.


2018 Roster:

C - Lopez, Zubac, T Bryant
F - Randle, Kuzma, Mo
F - PG13, Hart, Deng
G - Ingram, KCP, Svi
G - Ball, Seth Curry, Vet min pg (I Thomas?)


So in 2019.. this is what our team looks like...

- Assuming we sign PG13, then we have a great chance to bring Kawhi, possibly KD. I think having Lebron on the team turned off other superstars who didn't want to feature under the narrative he and his Klutch agency creates. I also wish Kobe (God rest his soul) was more in the ear of guys like Kawhi and PG13 to convince them to save the Lakers.. maybe he was but ahh well
- Bring back Lopez (bird rights)
- Trade future pic to get off Deng's Salary and ensure cap space



C - Lopez, Zubac, T Bryant
F - Kawhi, Randle, 2019 draft pick
F - PG13, Kuz, Svi
G - Ingram, Hart, THT
G - Ball, Curry, Caruso

With all our depth at that time, I would have then tried to pursue a consolidated trade with AD.... Without all the crazy publicity that tore apart NO in 2019, I would have quietly pursued a trade of Ingram, Randle, Kuz and multiple picks (2 future firsts, 2 pick swaps) for AD

END GAME starting lineup in 2019: Lopez, AD, Kawhi, PG13, Ball

Anyway... that was that. I have moved on and I'm intrigued by the team we have now.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject:

what have the pelicans done since the trade even with zion and holiday
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:51 am    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
2018: Prioritize Julius Randle/Aaron Mintz and sell Paul George/Mintz on a plan to sign PG13 (age 26 then), have one competitive developmental year with the youth and go after the big dogs the next year (Kawhi, KD, etc.). Remember that PG13 was coming off a disappointing first round exit against the Jazz that year.


PG was coming off of a playoff season with Russ. You expected him to leave there to sign with Randle when he wouldn't leave to sign with LeBron?

Also, your roster of:

C - Lopez, Zubac, T Bryant (13.3/7.5/8.7)
F - Kawhi, Randle, 2019 draft pick (39.4/19.8)
F - PG13, Kuz, Svi (39.4/13.0/1.7)
G - Ingram, Hart, THT (27.2/12.0/9.5)
G - Ball, Curry, Caruso (19.7/8.2/8.6)

Maybe that'd work in 2019-20, but for this year, that'd be $228 million in base salary, not including the salary of the 2019 #1. That would generate a $397.5 million luxury tax for a team payroll of $628.5 million (not including salary + tax of the 2019 #1).
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Hanging from Rafters
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject:

We can only speculate of course but both P George and K Leonard indicated they wanted to play for the Lakers... and may not have because of LeBron. The Deng/Mozgov signing really hurt and when it didn’t work for part of a season Jim and Mitch paid the price for that blunder with their jobs. If they could have signed those guys for 3 years with a team option for the last year things may have been drastically different. No Magic as GM and no LeBron/AD. I believe in that scenario the Lakers would have been poised for a dynasty. Competing for a title for years to come.

Thomas Brant/Zubac
Randle(all star)/Nance
Ingram(all star)/Hart? — K Leonard
Russel(all star)/Clarkson(6th man of the year) — P George
Ball/Lou Williams

With Deng/Mozgov gone after two years the above team could have had George and Leonard added to that group to replace whichever all star didn’t live up to potential. Plus the Lakers would have all the draft pics given up in the AD trade.

I think the Lakers would have been better off. But...

One real championship on the court is much much better than a theoretical
dynasty on paper...so I’m glad the way it turned out.
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
We can only speculate of course but both P George and K Leonard indicated they wanted to play for the Lakers.


You cannot ignore the fact that each of them had the opportunity to sign with the Lakers outright - no trades needed - for max contracts . . . and didn't.

For the "well, it was because of LeBron" crowd, Kawhi asked for a trade to the Lakers while LeBron was a Laker!

If, indeed, those guys chose to play for the Clippers & Thunder because of LeBron, then they really didn't want to be Lakers at all, they just wanted out of the situations they were in at the time and used the Lakers as leverage.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject:

If LeBron didn't come here, in all likelihood we would've been good but not great. We all know the old saying: good is the enemy of great.

For all this talk of a guy like Kawhi coming here, let's remind ourselves of what makes LeBron special compared to a "normal" superstar like Kawhi. Among other things, LeBron has really high BBIQ, plus he has so many friends around the league that it allows him to function as an assistant GM of sorts.

Yes, LeBron does things that annoy some of us, and he's not made of the same stuff as Kobe/Magic/Bird/MJ, but he's still one of the 5-10 greatest ever and a transcendent player.

Plus do you really want Kawhi, a guy whose body started breaking down a few years ago, and is an extremely introverted diva and snake?

Guys like LeBron, or even AD or Westbrook, only come around maybe once a decade. Why give up on that and prefer to settle for a mere star like Ingram, or an overhyped softie like Lonzo, or even a fake franchise player like Kawhi or PG?
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DLaker
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject:

PG or Kawhi coming here is a pipe dream scenario to make the what if scenario look good. PG said he was a clipper fan (good riddance), Kawhi an enigma and does not seem a kind of person willing to work with the Front office. More likely scenario is BI breaking out but is not enough to entice a superstar to come here, Randle just had a breakout last year. I see us being a fun team just no way near a championship level club. Remember it takes a superstar that has strong belief in himself to team up with all our young kids knowing the Lakers brand is up stake (Lots of pressure comes along winning or losing - don’t see that quality in PG13 or Kawhi).

As far as the some fan not impress by what Pelinka and Jennie have done need to look back at how bad our team was (bottom of the league in records). All the kids and draft picks we could have had, only BI or Randle became a star IMO, the rest are just role players. How many BI or Randle would it take in a trade scenario to get LBJ, AD and RW. So I kinda laugh at this what if, cause on top of the big 3 we still have a 20 yr old THT, which look poise to be the best of them all IMO. To many complainers, Monday morning QB, just enjoy the championship team the Lakers have assembled.


Last edited by DLaker on Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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CabinCreek44
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject:

They would be precisely where they were prior to his arrival…

Nowheresville
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