View previous topic :: View next topic |
Are you happy about Vogel becoming our coach? |
No |
|
12% |
[ 62 ] |
Yes |
|
54% |
[ 271 ] |
Neutral |
|
32% |
[ 163 ] |
|
Total Votes : 496 |
|
Author |
Message |
mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23442
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When AD was playing 5 before, Kieff was the 4 most of the time with lebron or kuzma do it sometimes.
This yea me it is lebron or melo |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vasashi17+ Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5622
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | The Lakers have allowed 115+ points in all 5 games, the longest streak to start a season in franchise history.
@ESPNStatsInfo
|
Quote: | @ESPNStatsInfo
The Lakers entered play with a 230-0 record (including playoffs) when leading by at least 25 points in a game over the last 25 seasons.
They led by 26 tonight, their largest blown lead over that span.
|
Live look at Vogel, cause he has to know he’s going to be the sacrificial lamb in all of this…
https://tenor.com/pjL5.gif _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11877
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8457
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. |
Mike Brown took Lebron to a Championship? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11877
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Outspoken wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. |
Mike Brown took Lebron to a Championship? |
He didn't. When? _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
strong9 Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2003 Posts: 3289 Location: so many places
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. |
Exactly. Blame Vogel all you want for offensive woes, but it isn't as if Vogel forget the meaning of defense. It's that Westbrook, Monk and Anthony never learned it, and the rest of the team has at best a casual relationship with it. We are 29th in defense and that's not a strategic flaw, it's an operational one. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
statyin Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 440
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
strong9 wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. |
Exactly. Blame Vogel all you want for offensive woes, but it isn't as if Vogel forget the meaning of defense. It's that Westbrook, Monk and Anthony never learned it, and the rest of the team has at best a casual relationship with it. We are 29th in defense and that's not a strategic flaw, it's an operational one. |
It's not about blaming Vogel, it's about making possible adjustments.
Obviously no basketball god would save us from our defense because of the way the roster was built. We kinda expected our defense would be worse compared to previous two years, just the fall is too steep for us to swallow right now. Having said that, we have LBJ, AD, AB and Ariza who can play some defense and I am optimistic that it will get better.
As with our offense? I don't trust Vogel's BS. His coaching on the offensive end is non-existent. Letting out players read the game and figure out what to do is not coaching. It works for our first run with him because it's pretty much AD and LBJ all the way, and some from KCP/ Kuz here and there. This mode doesn't work anymore because of the lack of offense when AD/LBJ missed games due to injury.
Now that we have more offensive options, Vogel should figure out how to make our offense better as a team. Sadly he is still stuck with the old approach and our team play like some kind of randomly assembled pick up street ball team. This is not going to work.
You have every right to be resentful towards our FO in sacrificing our defense for more offensive power. But it's all water under the bridge now and we need to figure out how to ensure the team gets back on track for the remaining of the season. I do feel like we urgently need to figure out how to be smarter and more efficient offensively. I have strong doubts if Vogel can ever do that right. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8163
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Vogel has his work cut out for him.
Getting one of them most inefficient out of control player in the league to suddenly fit in and be efficient on a nightly basis. Good luck with that!
I would love to hear exactly what Vogel thought when he saw this roster assembled. I get the feeling this roster is not his first choice. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
statyin Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 440
|
Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Vogel has his work cut out for him.
Getting one of them most inefficient out of control player in the league to suddenly fit in and be efficient on a nightly basis. Good luck with that!
I would love to hear exactly what Vogel thought when he saw this roster assembled. I get the feeling this roster is not his first choice. |
Agree this team would be a lot different if Vogel is to assemble his team. Not to say the FO has no responsibility on this, however unfair it may be to Vogel, coaches have to make do with whatever players available to him and make things work. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26420
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers are 3rd in pace and 29th in defense.
Having the team try to be the best fast break team in the league despite being as old.
WAS VOGEL'S DECISION.
Us being 29th in the league defensively... THAT is the ONE thing Vogel is here for.
So he's screwed us over with a terrible offensive idea(which you can also say is also bad for our defense), and we're the next to worst team in the league defensively.
Both those things are on Vogel.
Being an old team trying to be the best fast break team in the league and playing at the 3rd fastest pace in the league has a NEGATIVE effect on our defense too. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
Back to top |
|
|
miggz23 Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Posts: 6884
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
MJST wrote: | Lakers are 3rd in pace and 29th in defense.
Having the team try to be the best fast break team in the league despite being as old.
WAS VOGEL'S DECISION.
Us being 29th in the league defensively... THAT is the ONE thing Vogel is here for.
So he's screwed us over with a terrible offensive idea(which you can also say is also bad for our defense), and we're the next to worst team in the league defensively.
Both those things are on Vogel.
Being an old team trying to be the best fast break team in the league and playing at the 3rd fastest pace in the league has a NEGATIVE effect on our defense too. |
Pace was one of the main reasons they lost tonight... When they were up big they were taking a lot of dumb stupid shots early in clock like they were the one playing from behind.. That carried on through the 3rd quarter. Team needs to know when to slow it down and kill some clock. I understand some of those shots were wide open but with a 20+ lead that only gave OKC more possession. Eventually OKC got hot from behind the 3 in the 3rd.
This is when Lebron is crucial. Lebron is able to control the pace of the game tonight and we win with that alone. Westbrook only knows how to play one speed. You see him going faster than his team mates which leads to a lot of those turnovers. That something that he needs to learn and adjust to with these guys. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8457
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
lakersfever714 wrote: | Outspoken wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? Yep, the team is almost completely different. And who's mostly responsible for the makeup of the team? I rest my case. |
Mike Brown took Lebron to a Championship? |
He didn't. When? |
In Cleveland. 2007. That was Mike Brown, not LeBron? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8383 Location: Santa Monica
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
MJST wrote: | Lakers are 3rd in pace and 29th in defense.
Having the team try to be the best fast break team in the league despite being as old.
WAS VOGEL'S DECISION.
Us being 29th in the league defensively... THAT is the ONE thing Vogel is here for.
So he's screwed us over with a terrible offensive idea(which you can also say is also bad for our defense), and we're the next to worst team in the league defensively.
Both those things are on Vogel.
Being an old team trying to be the best fast break team in the league and playing at the 3rd fastest pace in the league has a NEGATIVE effect on our defense too. |
We have no choice but to play at a really fast pace. When we walk the ball upcourt and take our time our offense struggles, which is what happened in the second half.
Pace is not the reason our defense sucks, and it's not an excuse to jack up contested 3s early in the shot clock when we don't have anything. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
troy Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 5034
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
The problem with Vogel is that he often fails to insert the best lineup per scenario.
During the ending of last night's game, when we needed that defensive stop, we had the worst defenders on our team on the floor, including Melo and RW. Neither Dwight or DJ were on the floor, and neither was Bradley. Why? We still have a timeout, so after a successful defensive stop, we could have switched back to our better offensive players.
Speaking of offense, during the same time, when we needed capable 3 point shooters on the floor, again, Vogel had the likes of Melo, who is a volume shooter, not an accurate 3 point shooter, and Westbrook, who couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Once again, Avery Bradley was not on the floor.
So, on two consecutive occurrences, Mr. Vogel had the wrong lineups on the floor for the Lakers. Vogel must improve his in-game adjustments, as well as his ongoing issue of playing ineffective lineups. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Blazemore Rookie
Joined: 17 May 2014 Posts: 21
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree the coach shouldn't get full blame, but Vogel doesn't even run plays. The best he could come up with was an isolation contested 3 for Monk? Or Westbrook pulling up and clanking a 3 with 21 seconds left on the shot clock? Embarrassing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lakeshow23_ Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2021 Posts: 667
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
MJST wrote: | Lakers are 3rd in pace and 29th in defense.
Having the team try to be the best fast break team in the league despite being as old.
WAS VOGEL'S DECISION.
Us being 29th in the league defensively... THAT is the ONE thing Vogel is here for.
So he's screwed us over with a terrible offensive idea(which you can also say is also bad for our defense), and we're the next to worst team in the league defensively.
Both those things are on Vogel.
Being an old team trying to be the best fast break team in the league and playing at the 3rd fastest pace in the league has a NEGATIVE effect on our defense too. |
This team has to play fast, that's the only way Westbrook is effective. This all goes back to Westbrook and the piss-poor roster construction. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
lakersfever714 wrote: | Stop blaming the coach. He coached us to a champion so we know he's capable. You know what's different between this year and the champion year? |
This season is more than 8 games after a 4 month break. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
MJST wrote: | Lakers are 3rd in pace and 29th in defense.
Having the team try to be the best fast break team in the league despite being as old.
WAS VOGEL'S DECISION.
Us being 29th in the league defensively... THAT is the ONE thing Vogel is here for.
So he's screwed us over with a terrible offensive idea(which you can also say is also bad for our defense), and we're the next to worst team in the league defensively.
Both those things are on Vogel.
Being an old team trying to be the best fast break team in the league and playing at the 3rd fastest pace in the league has a NEGATIVE effect on our defense too. |
I wonder if those were Vogel’s decisions. Don’t forget that the FO selected his coaching staff for him. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16799
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
the coach coached to a 26pt lead. the players choked it away. However as we are seeing around the league, good teams have been struggling except the cavs , Bulls and Knicks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
NBAFAN24 Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 Posts: 1105
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
My main issue with Vogel are his rotations. He’s beyond terrible with his rotation and substitution. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RusselDoeee01 Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 1083
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Vogel always looks lost like a deer in the headlights. He literally only does what Lebron and the players tell him.. its clear
When we need offense he puts defense in and vice versa..
Im not sure if hes stubborn or genuinely doesnt know what he is doing at times |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23791
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
NBAFAN24 wrote: | My main issue with Vogel are his rotations. He’s beyond terrible with his rotation and substitution. |
Yeah it’s been very questionable since bubble.
I am not sure if it’s entirely him or some politics with Klutch/Lakers FO.
Truth is probably in the middle. Maybe 80% Vogel and 20% meddling from Klutch and Lakers FO.
One thing is for sure though…if he doesn’t get this defense to drastically improve, then there is no point in him being a head coach. We already know his offensive shortcomings. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16799
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
its funny. Most here say we would have won a ring last year if healthy. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26420
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
' players were rattled, confused and didnt know what to do..'
And if you're a head coach that has no clue what to do about that when you have a TEAM OF VETERANS THAT HAVE 10+ YEARS OF NBA EXPERIENCE UNDER THEIR BELT. Then you aren't much of a coach. This isn't their first rodeo nor yours, stop acting like this is a team of 21 year olds that doesn't know any better. That's the team we lost to. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16799
|
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
MJST wrote: | ' players were rattled, confused and didnt know what to do..'
And if you're a head coach that has no clue what to do about that when you have a TEAM OF VETERANS THAT HAVE 10+ YEARS OF NBA EXPERIENCE UNDER THEIR BELT. Then you aren't much of a coach. This isn't their first rodeo nor yours, stop acting like this is a team of 21 year olds that doesn't know any better. That's the team we lost to. |
the players choked it away. he put in the system, rotations to get it to 26, their laziness killed it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|