Lakers 2022-23 Lineup talk
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:49 am    Post subject:

we really need to trade Beverley and Nunn away

Schröder/WB
Walker/Reaves
James/Brown
AD/Gabriel
TBryant/AD

all our other guards are better, plus we got Christie as an extra body, and we need depth elsewhere. we also got a roster spot open with Ryan gone, a 2for1 trade will create another. Boogie and Harkless are still available?
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epic_
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Here are the top minutes played lineups (above 15 mins) for the past 10 games.

Some notes:
AD missed 1 game.
Lebron missed 4 games.
Dennis missed 2 games.
Lonnie missed 1 game.
Troy missed 1 game.
Pat missed 3 games.
Westbrook came off the bench.

Mins...|ORtg...|DRtg...|NetRtg..|Lineup...
37......|127.7..|114.6..|+13.1..|Russ,Pat,AD,Lonnie,AR
36......|101.3..|077.3..|+24.0..|Pat,AD,Troy,Lonnie,AR
25......|124.0..|111.8..|+12.2..|Lebron,AD,Dennis,Troy,Lonnie
20......|141.3..|117.8..|+23.5..|Lebron,Russ,AD,Lonnie,AR
19......|125.0..|113.5..|+11.5..|Lebron,Pat,AD,Dennis,Lonnie

Small sample size. We'll see how coach changes the lineups throughout the season.
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Hanging from Rafters
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:21 pm    Post subject:

I think the Lakers could really use a serious starting Line-up adjustment.

I would prefer a bigger SF but would settle for Reeves there over Bev starting. It’s past time to move him away from starting. Even TBjr @ SF or moving AD/LBJ to PF/SF and starting Bryant at C would seem to create a better starting group than continuing to force Bev there into the starting line-up.

With how AD is beasting at C and how Reeves is playing SF and even some PF anyway, moving him to the starting line-up, keeping AD/LBJ at C/PF with Schroeder and Walker in the back court seems like a much more effective group to start and finish games.

AD
LBJ
Reeves
Walker
Schroeder

Second unit: Bryant/Gabriel/TBjr/Bev/WB (not to be on the floor at the same time but to be mixed in with starters)
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Laker_Jocker
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:44 pm    Post subject:

Again, there is not a winning lineup with this LBJ + AD + WBs money eating up the rest of the bench.. but mostly the crux of the issue is that this LBJ is handling the ball waaaaay too much… especially at the end of games….
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epic_
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Man, that AD, Bron, Russ, Reaves, Brown lineup was doing work especially on the defensive end. Too bad they ran out of steam.
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Jocker wrote:
Again, there is not a winning lineup with this LBJ + AD + WBs money eating up the rest of the bench.. but mostly the crux of the issue is that this LBJ is handling the ball waaaaay too much… especially at the end of games….


Team has done well when Westbrook is not closing out games... I know he was one of the key guys for the come back. But once the game gets tight, Ham need to take him out and put Walker in there for shooting, specially when you have Lebron handling the ball to close out games.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points
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Brawn13
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:04 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:04 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


Such a huge handicap in size and scoring when both those guys starting.

Pat
Walker
TBJ
Lebron
AD

Needs to be starting.
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal


Reason a trade is much needed... Just getting rid of that cluster will do wonders.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal

3 guard lineups is just cherry on top. Vogel got fired playing small against big and Ham as our coach didn’t watch the games at all? Lol
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:11 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal

3 guard lineups is just cherry on top. Vogel got fired playing small against big and Ham as our coach didn’t watch the games at all? Lol


Feels like Vogel is out there still coaching at times. Less experience that shows during close games.

Only thing Ham has done well was get Westbrook to buy in coming off the bench.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:21 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal

3 guard lineups is just cherry on top. Vogel got fired playing small against big and Ham as our coach didn’t watch the games at all? Lol


Feels like Vogel is out there still coaching at times. Less experience that shows during close games.

Only thing Ham has done well was get Westbrook to buy in coming off the bench.

Russ does make some stupid decisions at time, but it is a lot better compare to last season, even he is not shooting well. He is buying in on the 6th man role and setup our guys for easy basket.
Compare to Pat Bev and Ds, he is a bigger guard with way more athleticism. He got 14 rebounds today, and He is awfully tough to score against one on one (he blocked brown 3 times today), what he is lacking is the help defense, but he did well on that end today.
I would hope Ham finishes with walker/Reaves/LBJ/AD/ and last spot depends on the matchup. Pat Bev, brown, Russ, even wenyen if needed.
Also shows if we can get another shooter or wing, our closing lineup will be set.
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matigol
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:22 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal

3 guard lineups is just cherry on top. Vogel got fired playing small against big and Ham as our coach didn’t watch the games at all? Lol


Feels like Vogel is out there still coaching at times. Less experience that shows during close games.

Only thing Ham has done well was get Westbrook to buy in coming off the bench.


Vogel was a really good coach until he fell in love with midget lineups.

I hope Ham intends to display our small guards for other teams and therefore he plays them that much
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:26 am    Post subject:

matigol wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Brawn13 wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Let’s keep starting DS and Pat Bev and spot the other team 10-15 points


This. Our 3 guard lineups make games harder than they need to be. It’s unreal

3 guard lineups is just cherry on top. Vogel got fired playing small against big and Ham as our coach didn’t watch the games at all? Lol


Feels like Vogel is out there still coaching at times. Less experience that shows during close games.

Only thing Ham has done well was get Westbrook to buy in coming off the bench.


Vogel was a really good coach until he fell in love with midget lineups.

I hope Ham intends to display our small guards for other teams and therefore he plays them that much

So maybe its not the coach's fault but LeBron's request to playmake less and focus on chasing the scoring record?

Its the most stupid (bleep) I have ever seen.

To start 2 guys who are 6"1 and can't score for (bleep). Cant make plays for others. What is the (bleep) point? I got to a point where I don't watch the games because its always the same story.

I am 6"3 and there is nothing I could do to stop a 6"7 tatum from shooting over me. Its (bleep) silly. These guys practice shooting over extended fake arms (tools) in practice to be able to do just that.

On rebounding they don't help.

I am honestly happier if Russell starts. At least its entertaining.

However we all know that Reaves, Brown, Walker should be the starters.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject:

matigol wrote:

<snip>

Vogel was a really good coach until he fell in love with midget lineups.

I hope Ham intends to display our small guards for other teams and therefore he plays them that much


Who exactly should Vogel have been playing in these bigger lineups? Melo? Ariza? Howard? All out of the league.
DAJ?
Jus' sayin' ...
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:56 am    Post subject:

I just hope people can see a guy that won a ring and took a limited Pacers team to the ECF a few tims didn't suddenly forget how to coach or make subs. The situation is that when a) your stars give you no continuity with their constant injuries b) your GM trades away all your best support players for a 3rd star and c) your 3rd star is actually a MLE level 6th man type instead of a 47M superstar, you're basically left with a lot of ???? on what the hell to do. That was Vogel's problem last year and this year it's Ham's.

At least Ham is getting an AD that is playing like a legaue MVP/top 5 player while Lebron is still putting up 27/8/6. Last year the two stars never played at a consistent period of time at the same high level (When Bron played at a MVP level, AD was out injured). We have a better situation with AD/Bron this year individually with WB willing to come off the bench. The situation allows them (AD/Bron) to monopolize the ball/game without WB in the way. However, in the end, WB's contract and that he has to close games with them still holds many of the same limitations that plagued Vogel last year.

One of the issues was what to do at 2/3? Sometimes we go ultra small, because if you look at the roster, there isn't really a 6'7 wing that is starting caliber. The team doesn't possess those 6'9, 6'7 types of 4/3s who can allow us to play bigger. We also lack a starting caliber Center, who would allow us to play bigger with AD at the 4 and Bron at 3 (or 1 on offense). These issues have been plaguing the team since last year.

As for Ham being infatuated with Bev. Not sure why. It could be a cultural thing. Bev presents a specific way they may want to play. I really don't know about those 4 guard lineups and the rationale behind why we used them last year and this year. I do know that there's no way we were running those 4 guard lineps when we had guys like Kuzma, Green, KCP. Reason? We had legit talent to play at 4/3/2. In fairness to Ham, he doesn't exactly have the talent to play at the 4/3/2 outside of Reaves/Walker (both of whom are a bit small to be 3/4s and are best off the bench or as starting 2s).
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epic_
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:24 am    Post subject:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LawMurrayTheNU/status/1617950015531667456

Quote:
The Lakers are 4-1 when starting Dennis Schröder, Patrick Beverley, Troy Brown Jr., LeBron James, Thomas Bryant

They are 8-2 in all games with that 5-man lineup (130.7 offensive rating, 107.4 defensive rating in 89 min. on floor)


Pretty good.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:44 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LawMurrayTheNU/status/1617950015531667456

Quote:
The Lakers are 4-1 when starting Dennis Schröder, Patrick Beverley, Troy Brown Jr., LeBron James, Thomas Bryant

They are 8-2 in all games with that 5-man lineup (130.7 offensive rating, 107.4 defensive rating in 89 min. on floor)


Pretty good.


Should just trade AD for one of those 3 and D wings you guys have been coveting and some picks.

AD is great but I don't know if he'll ever be healthy.

The only reason I don't b*tch about Ingram as much anymore is because he's been equally unhealthy.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:54 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
epic_ wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LawMurrayTheNU/status/1617950015531667456

Quote:
The Lakers are 4-1 when starting Dennis Schröder, Patrick Beverley, Troy Brown Jr., LeBron James, Thomas Bryant

They are 8-2 in all games with that 5-man lineup (130.7 offensive rating, 107.4 defensive rating in 89 min. on floor)


Pretty good.


Should just trade AD for one of those 3 and D wings you guys have been coveting and some picks.

AD is great but I don't know if he'll ever be healthy.

The only reason I don't b*tch about Ingram as much anymore is because he's been equally unhealthy.


I want to trade you for Skip Bayless. JK.
AD on the way.
No way we trade him after he gave us discounts (trade kicker and lower extension).
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:29 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
epic_ wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LawMurrayTheNU/status/1617950015531667456

Quote:
The Lakers are 4-1 when starting Dennis Schröder, Patrick Beverley, Troy Brown Jr., LeBron James, Thomas Bryant

They are 8-2 in all games with that 5-man lineup (130.7 offensive rating, 107.4 defensive rating in 89 min. on floor)


Pretty good.


Should just trade AD for one of those 3 and D wings you guys have been coveting and some picks.

AD is great but I don't know if he'll ever be healthy.

The only reason I don't b*tch about Ingram as much anymore is because he's been equally unhealthy.


I want to trade you for Skip Bayless. JK.
AD on the way.
No way we trade him after he gave us discounts (trade kicker and lower extension).


I mean Dak lost to a third string quarterback, can you blame him?

And now with the emergence of Burrow and if the 49ers get a quarterback will they ever have a better chance than this year?

I really do like AD, but I'm sick, sick, sick of his injuries.
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epic_
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:19 pm    Post subject:

Lakers went with a 9 man lineup tonight on the 2nd half of a back to back, albeit AD and Rui didn't play yesterday.

Interesting that Gabriel was the odd man out and Max got minutes. It's going to be interesting when AR and Lonnie come back.

I think it's going to be Thomas, AD, Lebron and Rui as the bigs rotation. Gabriel probably is out.
So a couple of the following guys aren't getting minutes as the guard/wing:

Dennis
Pat
Russ
Lonnie
AR
Max
Troy

Not getting minutes for sure:
DJ, JTA
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alleyoop
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:08 am    Post subject:

I actually liked that we used a 9-man tonight. Gives a bit more highlight to a few of our role players

I still hope we see a Bev + Lonnie + pick for a better SG/SF (GTJ, or even Hield), could then try to roll with a rotation like this:

Schroder (22) - Westbrook (26)
Trade Target (18) - Reaves (24) - Schroder (6)
LeBron (20) - Trade Target (12) - Brown/Christie (16)
Rui (26) - LeBron (14) - AD (8)
AD (26) - Bryant (22)
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levon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:16 am    Post subject:

^ This is too thin at the 5. Thomas Bryant isn't a playoff calibre big. We need a solid defensive backup 5.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:26 am    Post subject:

levon wrote:
^ This is too thin at the 5. Thomas Bryant isn't a playoff calibre big. We need a solid defensive backup 5.

We seem committed to AD at the 5, and I assume this will be even more the case come April/May - I guess you either hope TB/Gabriel can provide 12 good backup minutes in the playoffs, or you move Bryant on now in favour of a better defensive backup big

Playoff rotation could look like this, maybe?

Schroder (22) - Westbrook (26)
Trade Target (14) - Reaves (26) - Schroder (8)
LeBron (16) - Trade Target (18) - Brown/Christie (14)
Rui (28) - LeBron (20)
AD (36) - Bryant/Gabriel (12)
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