OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I think defenses are going to do this:

1. Go under the screen to see if Lonzo can hit his shot.

2. If he hits his shots, then they will switch and see if he can take a big and abuse that matchup. If he can't (one of the criticisms of his game right now), that makes it tough.

If you are popping Lopez, then you aren't getting anywhere with a switch in that situation. A guard can get in Lopez's shirt on the perimeter. So we'll need to roll him and abuse the matchup against the smaller defender in the paint or draw the D in with the roll. At this point, they are then likely daring Randle to beat them from the perimeter...or Lonzo to beat the big on iso, which isn't his strength right now.

Lonzo's giving it to an open Randle on the perimeter. A lot I think against smarter defenses. All that work on his shooting this summer needs to show. If it does, Zo and Lopez are going to open up a lot for Jules (or Nance or Kuzma).


If they switch the Zo-Lopez pick and roll, I would hope Brook would go straight to the post every time and Zo would get him the ball. I agree that good/smart teams will go under and switch.

Kuzma is definitely a better fit at the 4 next to Zo in half court because he can space the floor. Hopefully Randle and Nance (I have higher hopes for Nance) can shoot 3s this year.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I think defenses are going to do this:

1. Go under the screen to see if Lonzo can hit his shot.

2. If he hits his shots, then they will switch and see if he can take a big and abuse that matchup. If he can't (one of the criticisms of his game right now), that makes it tough.

If you are popping Lopez, then you aren't getting anywhere with a switch in that situation. A guard can get in Lopez's shirt on the perimeter. So we'll need to roll him and abuse the matchup against the smaller defender in the paint or draw the D in with the roll. At this point, they are then likely daring Randle to beat them from the perimeter...or Lonzo to beat the big on iso, which isn't his strength right now.

Lonzo's giving it to an open Randle on the perimeter. A lot I think against smarter defenses. All that work on his shooting this summer needs to show. If it does, Zo and Lopez are going to open up a lot for Jules (or Nance or Kuzma).

What if they fake the double high screen with Lopez as the supposed, initial screener and then use the other screener to set a screen for Lopez, and he pops out of that instead? I'm not sure what that's called or if there's any official terminology at all, but could that be a solution to nullify the small switching onto Lopez when he pops? They ran that for Wear during SL here at the 1:33 mark:

https://youtu.be/JMxQMSQszruU
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject:

^ My tablet isn't bringing up the video but I know the play you are talking about. I think they set up Kuz in that, too. I think you switch everything regardless defensively. You will probably catch teams off guard in that. Good teams? Not sure. Lonzo needs to prove he can abuse a big. I don't know if that will happen with consistency next year as the competition gets better. The year after will Lopez still be here? Who knows? But I think after a year, Lonzo probably takes it to the bigs with consistency and everything opens up.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject:

So you just run the pick five feet inside the half court line. Ball has great straight line speed and can dish to either side. If the guard goes under Lonzo has him in quasi transition and if the big switches he's out where the air is very thin.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
I think defenses are going to do this:

1. Go under the screen to see if Lonzo can hit his shot.

2. If he hits his shots, then they will switch and see if he can take a big and abuse that matchup. If he can't (one of the criticisms of his game right now), that makes it tough.

If you are popping Lopez, then you aren't getting anywhere with a switch in that situation. A guard can get in Lopez's shirt on the perimeter. So we'll need to roll him and abuse the matchup against the smaller defender in the paint or draw the D in with the roll. At this point, they are then likely daring Randle to beat them from the perimeter...or Lonzo to beat the big on iso, which isn't his strength right now.

Lonzo's giving it to an open Randle on the perimeter. A lot I think against smarter defenses. All that work on his shooting this summer needs to show. If it does, Zo and Lopez are going to open up a lot for Jules (or Nance or Kuzma).


Making me concern now. I think his shot (including 3s) will eventually fall, not sure if it's gonna be elite level but decent enough. But you don't think he has enough athleticism to beat the big... Man, I really hope he does (look what happened to Kendall Marshall)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject:

I'm not concerned. He was easily getting by switches all Summer League and consistently getting into the paint. Most of the concerns about Lonzo prior to SL were completely overblown due in part to the UCLA offense design.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
So you just run the pick five feet inside the half court line. Ball has great straight line speed and can dish to either side. If the guard goes under Lonzo has him in quasi transition and if the big switches he's out where the air is very thin.


You'll have both defenders automatically sagging unless Zo starts making shots from 35'.

If I had a really good perimeter defender, I'd go out of my way to blitz Lonzo near halfcourt. The passing is great. The handle, not so much.

But if I'm the defense, and I've got a big with the basketball 35' away from the hoop, I'm already ahead.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject:

I think concerns of Zo in the halfcourt are overblown. He has high IQ and will figure out what defenses are giving him. He is usually a step a head of defenses. He has way more athleticism than Kendall mArshall. Has anyone ever seen KM catch a lob or even dunk for that matter? Until we see Kendall taking a double team for reverse lets put that comparison to rest.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
I think concerns of Zo in the halfcourt are overblown. He has high IQ and will figure out what defenses are giving him. He is usually a step a head of defenses. He has way more athleticism than Kendall mArshall. Has anyone ever seen KM catch a lob or even dunk for that matter?


Well that's part of the problem. The Lakers *HAD another playmaker capable of setting Lonzo up for that pass in DAR.

The step ahead of defenses argument is mostly based around his passing. When it was PnR situations during Vegas, he was just ultra decisive when he had any kind of 1/4 step on the defense for drives. Didn't outquick them, didn't really blow by them. Defenders were right on his shoulder.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
I think concerns of Zo in the halfcourt are overblown. He has high IQ and will figure out what defenses are giving him. He is usually a step a head of defenses. He has way more athleticism than Kendall mArshall. Has anyone ever seen KM catch a lob or even dunk for that matter?


Well that's part of the problem. The Lakers *HAD another playmaker capable of setting Lonzo up for that pass in DAR.

The step ahead of defenses argument is mostly based around his passing. When it was PnR situations during Vegas, he was just ultra decisive when he had any kind of 1/4 step on the defense for drives. Didn't outquick them, didn't really blow by them. Defenders were right on his shoulder.


I think part of it was trying to draw the defense to him for the pass. When helpers stayed home like in the Sixers game he got in the paint at will and scored 36.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
I think concerns of Zo in the halfcourt are overblown. He has high IQ and will figure out what defenses are giving him. He is usually a step a head of defenses. He has way more athleticism than Kendall mArshall. Has anyone ever seen KM catch a lob or even dunk for that matter?


Well that's part of the problem. The Lakers *HAD another playmaker capable of setting Lonzo up for that pass in DAR.

The step ahead of defenses argument is mostly based around his passing. When it was PnR situations during Vegas, he was just ultra decisive when he had any kind of 1/4 step on the defense for drives. Didn't outquick them, didn't really blow by them. Defenders were right on his shoulder.


I think part of it was trying to draw the defense to him for the pass. When helpers stayed home like in the Sixers game he got in the paint at will and scored 36.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJUmXkH40Y
1:36, defense overplayed, defender at shoulder
1:41, hit the gas at halfcourt, don't think this flies next level
2:00, transition
2:17, no man's land
2:45, 1/2 step, defender right there
2:53, steal at rim, layup
3:08, shoots 3 behind screen (this I'm happy about)
3:19, pull up 3 (this I'm happy about)
3:27, transition push, don't think this flies next level
4:13, this is more along the lines of the traffic I expect Lonzo to be in next level, especially with sub avg 3pt shooting as a team
4:27, transition push, more things I don't think flies next level
4:37, legit straight line drive along baseline
4:45, transition layup
5:00, transition pull up 3.
5:12, PnR drive and dish
5:22, straight line drive
5:39, change direction, straight line drive to kick
5:53, forced drive, spin move, And 1.

I wouldn't define this as getting to the paint at will. Pretty much a handful of times he's got defenders on his shoulders, using PnR to free up a bit, and basically just floored it on straight line drives when he got a 1/4 step as mentioned.

I definitely don't expect NBA level defenders to keep stunting on defense when Zo is getting layups like that. First rule of basketball.

I think the guy that got to the rim at will is Dennis Smith Jr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR71zrXRTmg

0:35 Screen, slash, one help defender, got past his primary
0:46 Rip through, at hoop.
1:07.
1:12, Pick, help defender, fadeaway in paint
1:29, reset to 3pt line on O board, then burned defender
2:12 burns switch defender to the rim
2:36 burns switch defender again to the rim
3:17, Josh Jackson on his shoulder
3:36, burns Josh Jackson

Didn't have the scoring opportunities in transition like Lonzo, but lit up defenders in the halfcourt at will and exploited defender switches like crazy.

That is going to the paint at will.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
So you just run the pick five feet inside the half court line. Ball has great straight line speed and can dish to either side. If the guard goes under Lonzo has him in quasi transition and if the big switches he's out where the air is very thin.


You'll have both defenders automatically sagging unless Zo starts making shots from 35'.

If I had a really good perimeter defender, I'd go out of my way to blitz Lonzo near halfcourt. The passing is great. The handle, not so much.

But if I'm the defense, and I've got a big with the basketball 35' away from the hoop, I'm already ahead.


I get what you're saying. You see GS run this successfully with Curry largely because you can't leave him open from 32' in. It forces teams to respect the action farther out and gives the GS offense more room to operate.

I see it a little differently for Lonzo though. If the big is Randle, Ingram, Nance or Kuzma, I don't think teams trap. All those guys can make a play 4-on-3, open with he ball 30' out. They have to make the Draymond pass and the shooters have to convert. But at that point Lonzo will have done his job. If you don't have to honor Zo's shot out to 32' I agree defenses will sag under the play. In that case you give Zo a running start while allowing him to 'push' the defender to a spot by virtue of where they set up the screen, both Mid/Right/Left and how far across half court.combined with coordinated action behind the play you create opportunity.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject:

When his man tries to press up on him that is usually a mistake. If you give Lonzo any kind of speed in the offensive zone, you are in trouble. Obviously, in transition you are most likely already in trouble. I think our goal whether on a made hoop or a miss will be to win the first 4 seconds of a possession. As soon as we have possession, go.

I think if you commit a second defender to him, you are likely in trouble, too, as long as guys keep the foot on the gas pedal. Attacking, ball moving. It's a problem. If they aren't aggressive, confident in their skills, etc., then the D can recover. If you have to give the ball to Zubac 35 feet from the hoop, he better take up that space and make the remaining defenders make a decision. Can't handle that and you will sit.

Where I think Lonzo's got work to get better at is when the air is sucked out of the ball and teams start switching on him. He was surrounded by strong shooting bigs in the SL, but he had very few moments where teams did this. If I'm defending him (and he's hitting his threes), I switch and force him to beat the big on iso. That's not something we saw in the SL. I don't ice the screen-roll against him right now with Lopez, because that's committing a second defender again.

If defenders help off the PF against Lopez/Ball, the PF has to either be an aggressive threat with the shot or pulling a defender to him by heading toward the rim. Hesitate and we lose the advantage. But I'm trying not to get into any help situation if I can switch and not get badly burned.

Zo did have a couple very nice floaters over bigs on the PnR. He hits those with consistency and teams are in trouble if he can get bigs backing up on him on switches.

On a side note, I'm looking forward to seeing his off-ball halfcourt game grow, as well. We didn't look to set that up at all in the SL and that's a big part of his game.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject:

It's good to be aware of the flaws in Lonzo's game, but it works both ways. We can't really know until we see the games played, but what we do know already is that Lonzo is insanely smart on the basketball court, and that he adapts well. I'd only be worried if we're 2 years into his career and he's still majorly deficient in a crucial area. And even if that's the case, any singlular major deficiency is trumped by what will hopefully be multiple strengths.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:

Well that's part of the problem. The Lakers *HAD another playmaker capable of setting Lonzo up for that pass in DAR.


You know I can't discuss details, but Lonzo main strength is pushing the tempo, I don't see a great match either defending or attacking.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject:

WTHHHHHHHH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV4gxtbKKz0

Phil wanted to trade kristaps for #1 pick to draft lonzo ball........ I would have been so pissed
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject:

I actually think that Lonzo has a 2nd gear. It's subtle, but it's definitely there. That 2nd gear has a burst to it and I've seen him use it not just in transition.

I think if my eyes aren't deceiving me, that it could be a key weapon in his attacking in the halfcourt with the ball in his hands. It would be easier if he had another passer/scorer at the 2 that he could pass the ball to and allow him to move off ball, but we don't have that. KCP is a capable passer, so that's all we have right now at that position. Ingram and Randle are solid passers though, so he has help there.

Ultimately if it's the kind of thing that makes Lonzo improve his handles even more, I'm all for it.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

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Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


Fultz finally seeing the light playa.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


that story says he was thinking about it before signing with Nike
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


that story says he was thinking about it before signing with Nike


He was making fun of BBB him and his mom was being disrespectful
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


that story says he was thinking about it before signing with Nike


He was making fun of BBB him and his mom was being disrespectful


Yup. https://youtu.be/xGqcwRnHezs?t=1m35s
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo Ball Discusses Fitting Into Luke Walton’s System

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“I think I’ll fit in pretty good. He wants to play fast, that’s how I’ve been playing my whole life and he needs someone to run the team. I feel I could do that too. I’m just coming in there with a mindset to win and just trying to do whatever I can to make that happen.”


http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-lonzo-ball-discusses-fitting-into-luke-waltons-system/2017/08/14/
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


that story says he was thinking about it before signing with Nike


He was making fun of BBB him and his mom was being disrespectful


Yup. https://youtu.be/xGqcwRnHezs?t=1m35s


Even the Bootleg Laker sites be getting it wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Car54 wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Markelle Fultz wants to wear Big Baller Brand

Quote:
Despite not signing with Big Baller Brand prior to the draft, Markelle Fultz is still hoping to wear some Big Baller Brand gear.


https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/08/14/lakers-rumors-markelle-fultz-wants-wear-big-baller-brand/


that story says he was thinking about it before signing with Nike


He was making fun of BBB him and his mom was being disrespectful


Yup. https://youtu.be/xGqcwRnHezs?t=1m35s


Even the Bootleg Laker sites be getting it wrong.


He said it like a few days ago, and said that Lonzo Ball was the best guy he played against in college. Not back in April with that SI video, like a few days ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6t6057/markelle_fultz_says_he_wants_to_wear_the_big/

https://clips.twitch.tv/CrispyKnottyTurnipHumbleLife
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